Sukhoi FSW Fighters from S-22 / S-32 to S-37 / Su-47 Berkut

[paralay]

Re: Sukhoi S-32 (Su-27KM)

B)

 

[hesham]

S-22?

Google Traduction

And.

За пару лет до «Беркута»: крыло обратной стреловидности и КБ Сухого

Очень часто случается так, что наиболее известные вещи являются в прямом смысле только «верхушками айсберга». Такая ситуация сложилась и с одним из интереснейших проектов конструкторского бюро имени П.О. Сухого. Их экспериментальный самолет С-37 – он же Су-47, он же «Беркут» – лет пятнадцать назад

translate.google.fr

Google Traduction

"The "Dry(Sukhoi)" has already had experience in the design of light (up to 20 m) single-engine fighter with wings - Project C-22. "

I think that air intake shape is different between this plan view and this wind tunnel test model.

Before this,there was a anther Sukhoi S-22 with normal swept wing Project,led to develop
that concept as I know.

 

[flateric]

Not that shit over and over again in reply mode every three years

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,22111.msg222401.html#msg222401

This is TsAGI research model dubbed Ritm ('Rhytm')
What are your sources for 'another S-22' - while we never seen 'normal S-22' yet?

 

[hesham]

I will remember it soon.

 

[lancer21]

Picture of the S-22 twin engined FSW full size mock-up surfaced here:

Полноразмерный макет перспективного истребителя С-22 ОКБ Сухого с крылом обратной стреловидности

Полноразмерный макет предпринятого в 1980-е годы первого захода ОКБ Сухого на создание истребителя пятого поколения - изделия С-22 - проекта двухдвигательного истребителя с крылом обратной стреловидности. Фотография из юбилейного издания 80 лет ОКБ Сухого (выложена коллегой…

bmpd.livejournal.com

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Awesome! UGGGLLLYYY!

Can't see the intakes, sadly.

 

[Trident]

I suspect they are located in the same place as they are on the actual Su-47, just faired over.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

It would be unusual for a mockup to not include air intakes. Faired intakes are done on wind tunnel models, but not normally a mockup.

 

[flateric]

they are not faired

 

[Geo]

they are not faired

Thank you very much, Flateric.

 

[Mas Heradiranto]

Is there any name of this project (Sukhoi S-22)?

 

[hesham]

Welcome aboard Mas Heradiranto,

and maybe called as S-37,Berkut ?.

 

[Mas Heradiranto]

Welcome aboard Mas Heradiranto,

and maybe called as S-37,Berkut ?.

Thank you Hesham...and the same name for Su-47

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

What do you mean by a name? Designation is S-22, unbuilt projects don't necessarily get names.

 

[Mas Heradiranto]

What do you mean by a name? Designation is S-22, unbuilt projects don;t necessarily get names.

I'm just curious....

 

[Erdosain]

 

[blackkite]

Hi! S-22.
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/Jl1yav

"Since 1983, the Sukhoi Design Bureau has begun working on project S-22 the topic of which was the creation of 5th gen fighter plane. The aerodynamic layout of this machine."

https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.blogspot.com/2019/12/project-su-27km-reverse-sweep-for.html
"Within the framework of the S-22 project, we conducted the necessary studies and prepared a complete set of working documentation. It was proposed the construction of an aircraft scheme "duck" with front horizontal tail and CBS. The aircraft was equipped with one engine(???); there was a single cabin. Take-off weight reached 22-24 tons, including several tons of combat load.
Project S-32
At the final design stage, it turned out that the S-22 turned out to be excessively heavy. Correction of these shortcomings required a radical revision of the project. In this regard, work on S-22 was stopped, and the accumulated experience was put at the heart of a new project - S-32."

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Hi! S-22.
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/Jl1yav

"Since 1983, the Sukhoi Design Bureau has begun working on project S-22 the topic of which was the creation of 5th gen fighter plane. The aerodynamic layout of this machine."

https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.blogspot.com/2019/12/project-su-27km-reverse-sweep-for.html
"Within the framework of the S-22 project, we conducted the necessary studies and prepared a complete set of working documentation. It was proposed the construction of an aircraft scheme "duck" with front horizontal tail and CBS. The aircraft was equipped with one engine(???); there was a single cabin. Take-off weight reached 22-24 tons, including several tons of combat load.
Project S-32
At the final design stage, it turned out that the S-22 turned out to be excessively heavy. Correction of these shortcomings required a radical revision of the project. In this regard, work on S-22 was stopped, and the accumulated experience was put at the heart of a new project - S-32."

Yet again, low quality of post. The first link and picture is purely speculative and has numerous points of difference from the real project. The second reference is simply a Google translation of the actual source article from https://topwar.ru/165697-proekt-su-27km-obratnaja-strelovidnost-dlja-avianosca.html while the image posted is Paralay's speculative drawing of S-22, already posted in this topic.

 

[blackkite]

Single engine S-22 design is like this(Right side drawing)?
http://www.hitechweb.genezis.eu/berkut.htm

I checked right side drawing carefully and I think that this drawing might has two engines.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Single engine S-22 design is like tihs(Right side drawing)?
http://www.hitechweb.genezis.eu/berkut.htm

That’s a speculative drawing from Janes long ago. I wouldn’t pay much attention to it. Also it was already posted IN THIS TOPIC, 12 years ago, by hesham. There was no purpose to reposting it.

 

[flateric]

This is Piotr Butowski drawings from JDR. One to the right is based on small image from TsAGI paper and many years after turned out to be Rhytm thematic model, an internal TsAGI study that has no input from Sukhoi.

 

[blackkite]

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/attachments/7629396_original-jpg.623260/

Translated explanation of these pictures are as follows.

Since 1983, the design Bureau under the CODE S-22 began Work on the Topic of Creating a fighter of the 5th Generation.
The aerodynamic Layout of this machine provided for the use of a Reverse Sweep Wing.
In the photo-a full-size model of this Aircraft
The S-22 powerplant provided for the use of flat-Nozzle Engines.

Photo from the anniversary edition of " 80 years of the Sukhoi design Bureau "

 

[blackkite]

Hi S-32 and S-45.
https://www.zona-militar.com/2019/0...a-negativa-de-sukhoi-del-s-22-al-s-37-berkut/

"The main differences with the S-37 Berkut are the engine exhaust nozzles, rectangular such as those of the Su-27LL-UV (KS), the slightly tilted drifts inwards and the missile carrier rails on the toes."

"The S-32 , a designation that had already been used on the Su-17 Fitter C, was assigned to head of design M. A. Pogosyan. Once several options were considered to improve the S-22, it was recognized that a twin-engine fighter with vector thrust was more promising. It was supposed to be equipped with two R-179V-300 turbofans of 18,500 kg of post-combustion thrust each. These engines were a development of the R79V-300 15,500 kg thrust engine that equipped the Yakovlev Yak-141 vertical take-off and landing fighter. Unlike the R79V-300 engine, the R-179V-300 had a flat vector thrust nozzle and was designed to propel conventional takeoff fighters, such as the proposed Sukhoi Su-37 single-engine, equipped with canard and delta wing planes. Although the thrust of the R179V-300 was comparable to fifth generation engines, this engine was also much heavier, with higher bypass rate, mass flow and a higher number of stages. A number of problems with the development of the new engine led to a reconsideration of the selection and it was finally decided to equip the S-32 with the Saturn/Lyulka AL-41F turbofan with an estimated thrust of 18 to 19 tons, which would allow supersonic flight without using afterburning devices, which is known as supercrosser flight. The same engine was chosen to propel the MiG 1.42.2."

 

[blackkite]

"The development of the S-32 had continued until now, encouraged by the Air Force, in view of exploring othertechnologies and its aerodynamic configuration for a future fighter or even for the Sh-90, but in the late 1980s the USSR could not afford to fund as many experimental aircraft programs as possible.

At that time the Soviet Navy intervened, very impressed by the take-off and landing data of the S-32, which made it very attractive as an aircraft based on aircraft carriers. Thus began a new stage in the biography of hunting with negative arrow wings, in its navalized version called Su-27KM, which we will talk about in the second installment of this note."

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Su-27KM. I can see complicated shape engine air intake and exhaust nozzle in following pictures. Also I can see hook.
https://topwar.ru/15126-za-paru-let-do-berkuta-krylo-obratnoy-strelovidnosti-i-kb-suhogo.html
https://judgesuhov.livejournal.com/185366.html

 

[blackkite]

The Su-47 was originally based on the Su-27KM, which was planned as a carrier-based fighter to be mounted on an Admiral Guznetsov heavy aircraft cruiser in the early 1980s. Although the Su-27KM is named Su-27, it has no design relationship with the Su-27K (Sea Flanker). The Su-27KM was a forward wing aircraft, designed to fold its wings to fit the smaller aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov. The Su-27KM was also expected to be a carrier-based aircraft for the Urianosk-type nuclear heavy aviation cruiser. The engine was planned to be the RD-79M with a two-dimensional thrust vectoring nozzle. However, in 1989, the development of the Su-27KM was discontinued, and the Su-27K was mass-produced. Sukhoi decided to continue the development of Su-27KM independently.

After that, as the S-32 demonstrator machine (proof of concept) proposed by Sukhoi in the MFI plan, the design was changed and the development was resumed as a land machine with the name S-37, omitting the function as a carrier-based aircraft. , Equipped with the D-31F6 engine for MiG-31, made its maiden flight in 1997. The name was changed to Su-47 in 2000.

S-22⇒S-32⇒Su-27KM⇒S-37(Su-47)

 

[hesham]

Hi! Su-27KM. I can see complicated shape engine air intake and exhaust nozzle in following pictures. Also I can see hook.
https://topwar.ru/15126-za-paru-let-do-berkuta-krylo-obratnoy-strelovidnosti-i-kb-suhogo.html
https://judgesuhov.livejournal.com/185366.html

I suspect in this Project ?.

 

[blackkite]

You mean Su-27KM is a what if?

 

[blackkite]

Hi Su-47 movie. I can see moving of canard wing clearly.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n76W0UwzbI

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Su-27KM.
http://blog.livedoor.jp/tikhookeanskii_flot/archives/2339527.html
"The Soviet Navy planned to build a full-scale nuclear-powered aircraft carrier with a steam catapult in the 1970s.
The Sukhoi Prototype Design Bureau was planning a carrier-based model of the Su-27 in response to this plan.
However, all of the "nuclear-powered aircraft carrier" plans planned in the 1970s were "sunk" by the Defense Ministry and senior Soviet Union forces, and the construction was approved in the early 1980s by "heavy aviation" equipped with a ski jumping platform. There were two ships of the "Cruiser" project 11435/11436 (Admiral Kuznetsov type).
Naturally, this "heavy aircraft cruiser" was smaller in size than the US aircraft carrier, and along with this, the number of aircraft on board was also reduced.
Moreover, the Su-27 was a large twin-engine fighter, and even if the main wing and horizontal stabilizer were folded, the number of aircraft that could be accommodated in the hangar was limited.
Around the same time as the Su-27K, a carrier-based aircraft type of the smaller fighter MiG-29 was also prototyped, but it was thought that the air superiority and air defense capabilities would be insufficient with this aircraft alone.
To solve this problem, Sukhoi thought that it was necessary to design a new large fighter that could fold the main wings compactly.So Sukhoi noticed the forward wings.
At that time, research on forward-wing aircraft was also underway in the Soviet Union, and Sukhoi tried to adopt it for the first time in carrier-based fighters.

The design of the Su-27KM started in the early 1980s.
The name is Su-27K, but it was a completely newly designed aircraft.
The forward wing was thought to bring the following advantages:

・ Increased aerodynamic efficiency at low speeds
・ Increased lift
・ Increased cruising range at subsonic speeds
・ Good maneuverability at subsonic speed
・ Shortening the landing distance
・ Low speed stall
・ Improved anti-spin performance
・ Increase in aircraft capacity

"Heavy Aircraft Cruiser" Admiral Kuznetsov Two ships were laid down, and in the late 1980s, the "Nuclear Heavy Aircraft Cruiser" project 11437 with an expanded steam catapult (The construction of the Ulyanovsk type) was decided, and the first ship was laid down in 1988.
The Su-27KM was also expected to be a carrier-based aircraft for Project 11437.
The Su-27KM engine was planned to be two RD-79M (17.500kg thrust when using afterburner) with a two-dimensional thrust vectoring nozzle.
This engine is in the same series as the propulsion engine of the vertical takeoff and landing carrier-based fighter Yak-141, which was being developed earlier.
However, in May 1989, the Soviet Military Industry Commission decided to discontinue the development of the Su-27KM.
In this way, the Soviet (Russian) Navy's forward wing carrier-based fighter disappeared and the Su-27K was mass-produced.
After that, the Soviet Union was dismantled and the Soviet Navy's "aircraft carrier" disappeared as a phantom, but the Sukhoi Design Bureau continued to develop forward wing fighters on its own, omitting the function as a carrier-based aircraft, and the prototype equipped with interceptor fighter MiG-31 engine D-30F6 (thrust when using afterburner 15.500 kg) was completed and made its first flight on September 25, 1997.
About 15 years have passed since the plan started as the carrier-based fighter Su-27KM.
This is the S-37 "Berkut"."

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Some S-32 pictures. Enjoy.
https://dic.pixiv.net/a/S-32
”

Design Bureau​	Plan​	Proof of Concept​
Mikoyan​	1.42​	1.44​
Sukhoi​	S-32​	S-37​
Yakovlev​	Yak-X​	-​

MFI was a multifunctional front-line fighter designed by Mikoyan, Sukhoi and Yakovlev.

Sukhoi has been researching forward-wing aircraft since before MFI, and the design proposal S-32 submitted to MFI was also a forward-wing fighter.
Just as Mikoyan produced the 1.44 as a demonstrator, Sukhoi also produced the S-37 as a demonstration aircraft for the S-32 (diverting the carrier-based fighter plan Su-27KM).
However, the MFI program was eventually canceled due to financial difficulties.
The S-37 (later renamed the Su-47) exhibited at an air show and tried to sell it, but the results were not good.
In addition, the successor project (PAK-FA), which became the successor to MFI, was started, and the plan for the forward wing fighter was completely abandoned because the manufacturer in charge of its production became Sukhoi.
The S-32, which was supposed to be manufactured in response to the results of the S-37, ended up in a paper plan.
The Su-47 is a technical demonstrator for the S-32, and considerable information has been published.
However, there is little information about the S-32, and it is a mysterious aircraft.
Regarding the specifications of S-32, only the planned value and external image are available in Japan.
Nevertheless, the S-32 has a certain degree of name recognition in Japan because it was selected as an aircraft that can be used in the "Ace Combat Series".
In Ace Combat 5, where the S-32 first appeared, enemy ace units used this aircraft in the final battle”

 

[blackkite]

I think that S-32 exhaust nozzle shape is like this.
https://www.redstar.gr/index.php?op...perimental-plane&catid=417&lang=en&Itemid=526

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/su-27ll-ps-uv.13938/

 

[blackkite]

Hi! This video includes Su-27LL-PS(UV).
http://shinchan.biz/player.html?video_id=sm20729437

 

[paralay]

The Engine Of The Su-47

 

[paralay]

Experimental nozzle on the Su-27UB aircraft, for the bomber " Izd. 54S"

 

[blackkite]

Hi!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fWULLZPX4o

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
https://masousizuka.hatenadiary.org/entry/20100206/1265456710

 

[blackkite]

There are some opinions about Su-47 engine replacement plan.
(1) D-30F6(15.5ton A/B)⇒AL-37FU(14.5ton A/B)
(2) D-30F6⇒AL-41F(17.6ton A/B)

 

[blackkite]

1. I think that modified Su-47 with thrust vectoring engine (AL-37FU or AL-41F) was the final shape of S－32 concept.
2, Existing S-32 images or model picture shows that S-32 was too heavy because of large flat plate thrust vectoring exhaust nozzle.
3. Some document says that F-22 can do every maneuver that X-29 did.
4. So perhaps Su-57 can do every maneuver that modified Su-47 can do.
5. FSW's L/D is not large at over Mach 1.3 region compared with Sweep back wing, FSW is not suitable for supercruiser.
6. FSW fighter is hard to design. (Because of wing divergence problem and complicated flight control system).
7. I believe that FSW fighter has no merit today.
(Perhaps Su-27KM exhaust nozzle design was different from S-32 exhaust nozzle.)

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/attachments/su-27km-3-jpg.647354/

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Su-47.
https://aviation.stackexchange.com/...sukhoi-su-47-berkut-never-adopted-for-service