Strategic Capabilities Office - Hypervelocity Gun Weapon - Missile Defense

From Inside Defense (paywall)

DOD seeking $1.5B for SCO in FY-19, including $438M for seven new projects

The Strategic Capabilities Office is seeking nearly $1.5 billion in fiscal year 2019 -- an increase of more than 20 percent over FY-18 -- to develop new and surprising ways of using existing technology to bolster conventional deterrence against China and Russia.
 
https://thediplomat.com/2018/02/revealed-the-details-of-chinas-latest-hit-to-kill-interceptor-test/

While most of the stuff is known, there are some tidbits new to me in the text above. According to them, it's a "larger than sm-3" missile with capabilities "similar to sm-3", called dn-3.
 
totoro said:
https://thediplomat.com/2018/02/revealed-the-details-of-chinas-latest-hit-to-kill-interceptor-test/

While most of the stuff is known, there are some tidbits new to me in the text above. According to them, it's a "larger than sm-3" missile with capabilities "similar to sm-3", called dn-3.
Click to expand...

Wrong thread..
 
bobbymike said:
From Inside Defense (paywall)

DOD seeking $1.5B for SCO in FY-19, including $438M for seven new projects

The Strategic Capabilities Office is seeking nearly $1.5 billion in fiscal year 2019 -- an increase of more than 20 percent over FY-18 -- to develop new and surprising ways of using existing technology to bolster conventional deterrence against China and Russia.
Click to expand...

Here is the OSD budget with most of those SCO programs mentioned in the article -

https://www.scribd.com/document/372121300/Dodfy19-Osd
 
marauder2048 said:
I guess the implication is that the HVP doesn't have an active seeker so the interferometric radars provide the necessary angular resolution for
some command guided or midcourse update scheme. We've seen similar schemes before.
Click to expand...

hyper.jpg


Fire control radar interferometer test bed for Hypervelocity Terminal Defense Fire Control

Three receive antennas on vertices of a 10 meter baseline equilateral triangle provides measurement accuracy required to command guide gun launched projectile interceptors to direct hit-to- kill impact of incoming ballistic missile targets.

Technovative Applications | Technovative Applications

Technovative Applications develops radar interferometers for the United States Department of Defense and Homeland Security
www.tnov.com
 
Also, written testimony submitted by James Guerts, assistant Navy secretary for acquisition, offers the first confirmation of the service’s third hypersonic-weapon development program, joining the anti-air Hypervelocity Projectile in development by the Strategic Capabilities Office and the intermediate-range Conventional Prompt Strike (CPS) program.

Document Likely Shows SM-6 Hypersonic Speed, Anti-Surface Role | Aviation Week Network

The terse reference in a written submission by Navy officials to the House Armed Services Committee on March 11 also likely offers the first proof that the SM-6 Block 1B remains in development.
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com
 
thinkin the anti-air Hypervelocity Projectile will still not be launced from the current EMRGs.
 
jsport said:
thinkin the anti-air Hypervelocity Projectile will still not be launced from the current EMRGs.
Click to expand...
EMRG? AFAIK there are no plans to field either the GA or BAE design. (IMO they should field both and wring them out.)
 
Assistant Secretary of the Air Force for Acquisition Will Roper told reporters during the same briefing that one of the exercise’s big successes was the shoot-down by a novel hypervelocity projectile of one of the surrogate cruise missiles, played by BQM-167 target drones flying over White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico. The small projectile, which can fly at Mach 5, was developed by the Navy and the Army, he said, and was launched from an Army M109 Paladin-based 155mm howitzer and a Navy deck gun during the demo.

breakingdefense.com

ABMS Demo Proves AI Chops For C2 - Breaking Defense

"Tanks shooting down cruise missiles is awesome -- video game, sci-fi awesome," Air Force acquisition czar Will Roper told a small group of reporters.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com

maybe not connected, but:


its radar like by scalled EAPS sensor

zxdXxjH.png
 
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AN/AWW-14(V) said:
The small projectile, which can fly at Mach 5, was developed by the Navy and the Army, he said, and was launched from an Army M109 Paladin-based 155mm howitzer
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Which is another reason why the autoloader for ERCA is really important.
 
Does anyone know of any information on the effective coverage area of this projectile out of various guns against various targets? Without it, it is hard to compare it to SAMs.

If there is nothing public it might be possible to calculate an reasonably accurate estimate given the system is under many constraints.
 
sferrin said:
marauder2048 said:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-vzWvFOFlY
Click to expand...

A shame the M110 & M107 are no longer in service. Kinda makes you wonder why they bothered using one in this test, or developing a projectile for it. (The M110 in this case.)
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The ASAF said the projectiles were fired from an Army M109 and a Navy gun in the test, but I don't see a Mk 45 turret anywhere. I suspect that what looks like an M110 here is actually just a recycled chassis with Navy 127mm ordnance for ballistic testing.
 
TomS said:
sferrin said:
marauder2048 said:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-vzWvFOFlY
Click to expand...

A shame the M110 & M107 are no longer in service. Kinda makes you wonder why they bothered using one in this test, or developing a projectile for it. (The M110 in this case.)
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The ASAF said the projectiles were fired from an Army M109 and a Navy gun in the test, but I don't see a Mk 45 turret anywhere. I suspect that what looks like an M110 here is actually just a recycled chassis with Navy 127mm ordnance for ballistic testing.
Click to expand...


Yeah there seems to be some kind of attachment towards the tip of both barrels. Thought it was the M110s muzzle brake.
 
sferrin said:
TomS said:
sferrin said:
marauder2048 said:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-vzWvFOFlY
Click to expand...

A shame the M110 & M107 are no longer in service. Kinda makes you wonder why they bothered using one in this test, or developing a projectile for it. (The M110 in this case.)
Click to expand...

The ASAF said the projectiles were fired from an Army M109 and a Navy gun in the test, but I don't see a Mk 45 turret anywhere. I suspect that what looks like an M110 here is actually just a recycled chassis with Navy 127mm ordnance for ballistic testing.
Click to expand...


Yeah there seems to be some kind of attachment towards the tip of both barrels. Thought it was the M110s muzzle brake.
Click to expand...
Thats defiantly not a Standard M110, the Breech is total different to all the ones I have seen for one. It looks more like a sliding breech instead of the standard screw breech. And the Recoil mechanisms look different as well.

What it maybe a second 155 long barrel that they slap on the M110 chasis that they have floating around White Sands and the Navy gun is on that stand you can see at about 1 minute 50 seconds and 3 minutes in.

There are plans of replacing the towed M777 barrels with this tube as well, so they could be using the M110 to test out the barrel holders and recoil mechanism for that. Which is handly since towing a barrel that long around will be a PITA.
 
Firefinder said:
Thats defiantly not a Standard M110, the Breech is total different to all the ones I have seen for one. It looks more like a sliding breech instead of the standard screw breech. And the Recoil mechanisms look different as well.

What it maybe a second 155 long barrel that they slap on the M110 chasis that they have floating around White Sands and the Navy gun is on that stand you can see at about 1 minute 50 seconds and 3 minutes in.
Click to expand...

You're right, I see the Navy gun on that platform now.

The chassis seen right at the beginning of the video is labeled AGS. I wonder if it's the ordnance testbed for the Navy 155mm Advanced Gun System. They might still have it left over after LRLAP development ended. From 2010:

Under this test phase, Lockheed Martin and BAE plan to fire a total of 25 LRLAP rounds at White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico.

Those rounds will be shot from an Advanced Gun System (AGS) tube mounted on a M110 8-inch howitzer chassis, a Lockheed Martin official told Defense Daily during the same interview. BAE builds AGS which is being developed for DDG-1000.
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I think we see this same gun with and without that muzzle fitting; the chassis at ~43 seconds is also marked AGS but lacks those big rings around the muzzle. The Navy gun in some shots also has a new muzzle fitting, as does Howitzer Test Bed-VIII (the long-tube M109). Probably some sort of inductive round setter or velocity measuring system associate with HVP.
 
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TomS said:
Firefinder said:
Thats defiantly not a Standard M110, the Breech is total different to all the ones I have seen for one. It looks more like a sliding breech instead of the standard screw breech. And the Recoil mechanisms look different as well.

What it maybe a second 155 long barrel that they slap on the M110 chasis that they have floating around White Sands and the Navy gun is on that stand you can see at about 1 minute 50 seconds and 3 minutes in.
Click to expand...

You're right, I see the Navy gun on that platform now.

The chassis seen right at the beginning of the video is labeled AGS. I wonder if it's the ordnance testbed for the Navy 155mm Advanced Gun System. They might still have it left over after LRLAP development ended. From 2010:

Under this test phase, Lockheed Martin and BAE plan to fire a total of 25 LRLAP rounds at White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico.

Those rounds will be shot from an Advanced Gun System (AGS) tube mounted on a M110 8-inch howitzer chassis, a Lockheed Martin official told Defense Daily during the same interview. BAE builds AGS which is being developed for DDG-1000.
Click to expand...

I think we see this same gun with and without that muzzle fitting; the chassis at ~43 seconds is also marked AGS but lacks those big rings around the muzzle. The Navy gun in some shots also has a new muzzle fitting, as does Howitzer Test Bed-VIII (the long-tube M109). Probably some sort of inductive round setter or velocity measuring system associate with HVP.
Click to expand...

lrlap-test.png

View: https://youtu.be/VXyH1OYuyIw?t=92
 
TomS said:
Firefinder said:
Thats defiantly not a Standard M110, the Breech is total different to all the ones I have seen for one. It looks more like a sliding breech instead of the standard screw breech. And the Recoil mechanisms look different as well.

What it maybe a second 155 long barrel that they slap on the M110 chasis that they have floating around White Sands and the Navy gun is on that stand you can see at about 1 minute 50 seconds and 3 minutes in.
Click to expand...

You're right, I see the Navy gun on that platform now.

The chassis seen right at the beginning of the video is labeled AGS. I wonder if it's the ordnance testbed for the Navy 155mm Advanced Gun System. They might still have it left over after LRLAP development ended. From 2010:

Under this test phase, Lockheed Martin and BAE plan to fire a total of 25 LRLAP rounds at White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico.

Those rounds will be shot from an Advanced Gun System (AGS) tube mounted on a M110 8-inch howitzer chassis, a Lockheed Martin official told Defense Daily during the same interview. BAE builds AGS which is being developed for DDG-1000.
Click to expand...

I think we see this same gun with and without that muzzle fitting; the chassis at ~43 seconds is also marked AGS but lacks those big rings around the muzzle. The Navy gun in some shots also has a new muzzle fitting, as does Howitzer Test Bed-VIII (the long-tube M109). Probably some sort of inductive round setter or velocity measuring system associate with HVP.
Click to expand...
Definitely the AGS tester, BAE Land (formerly UD) never throws anything like that away.
 
Never underestimate the USN's ability to shoot itself in the head. They had TWO working railgun designs and they managed to lose both of them AND a projectile that could have revolutionized air defense. Idiots.
 
Isn't the issue here that the same round can be fired from ordinary deck guns?
 
Assuming this survives into service, and PACOM is willing MDAC into being so I expect it will, HVP will be on Navy ships not long after. The 5" sabot for HVP was already developed and tested, and the Red Sea action has only highlighted the utility of the deck gun as a defensive asset (when paired with the right sensors, ammunition, and combat system upgrades).

If I wanted to be controversial, however, I'd point out that HVP performance from Mk45 is going to be reduced compared to the envisioned MDAC gun, and advances in SPG auto-loader technology have nearly wiped out the mount's RoF advantage. It may be time for Navy to consider a new mount. And I don't mean AGS.
 
Moose said:
It may be time for Navy to consider a new mount. And I don't mean AGS.
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I think there have been proposals for improved Mk 45s with increased RoF basically since it was introduced. The Navy has not been interested, preferring reliability over speed, but maybe now is the time that we can get both. The state of the art (thanks to Leonardo) clearly supports a faster gun than we currently have, and the Red Sea suggests at least burst RoF may have value.*

Something comparable to the 127mm/64 Alleggerito seems feasible. (35 rpm vs 20, 40 ready rounds vs 20). Couple it to an automated ammunition handling system to replenish the ready service magazines and some significant improvement in capability is possible.

* Yes, yes, I've been wrong about the value of 5-inch deck guns for many years.
 
TomS said:
I think there have been proposals for improved Mk 45s with increased RoF basically since it was introduced. The Navy has not been interested, preferring reliability over speed, but maybe now is the time that we can get both. The state of the art (thanks to Leonardo) clearly supports a faster gun than we currently have, and the Red Sea suggests at least burst RoF may have value.*

Something comparable to the 127mm/64 Alleggerito seems feasible. (35 rpm vs 20, 40 ready rounds vs 20). Couple it to an automated ammunition handling system to replenish the ready service magazines and some significant improvement in capability is possible.

* Yes, yes, I've been wrong about the value of 5-inch deck guns for many years.
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Mark 66 dual 5", 96rpm.

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_5-54_mk65.php

Intended for a fire-support ship that never materialized, but with DART, or better the hypervelocity shell that was being developed, it would make for a terrific AA mount. :)
 
apparition13 said:
Mark 66 dual 5", 96rpm.

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_5-54_mk65.php

Intended for a fire-support ship that never materialized, but with DART, or better the hypervelocity shell that was being developed, it would make for a terrific AA mount. :)
Click to expand...

That gun seems like excess to me, given the use of guided rounds. And likely to be unreliable at really high RoFs. Also quite heavy, which Alleggerito is not.
 
If I remember my Friedman correctly, the Mk 66 was intended as an area-fire weapon, not something for PGMs.

I still think AGS, or something like it, would be good if you wanted to do sustained NGFS with precision guided shells, but a higher rate of fire mount would be better for anti-UAS work.
 
Moose said:
Assuming this survives into service, and PACOM is willing MDAC into being so I expect it will, HVP will be on Navy ships not long after. The 5" sabot for HVP was already developed and tested, and the Red Sea action has only highlighted the utility of the deck gun as a defensive asset (when paired with the right sensors, ammunition, and combat system upgrades).

If I wanted to be controversial, however, I'd point out that HVP performance from Mk45 is going to be reduced compared to the envisioned MDAC gun, and advances in SPG auto-loader technology have nearly wiped out the mount's RoF advantage. It may be time for Navy to consider a new mount. And I don't mean AGS.
Click to expand...
Agreed. There are guns in service with significantly higher ROF now. The French 100mm does ~78rpm, for example. Yes, yes, the ammunition for the 100mm is only 23kg instead of 33kg so there's less recoil distance/time spent waiting for the gun to return to battery.

But I bet you can get a 127mm up to about 50-60rpm using the same techniques.
 
The guns on the Sherman Class DDs and their sister classes did have a 48 rpm gun in the Mark 42.

But the Hydraulics at the time couldn't take it so they ended up being derate to 28ish after Vietnam. Later they did get rerated for 38 for short bursts in basically PANIC AT INCOMING mode.

With the Current MK45 mount 20 rpm being a result of that experience. The navy wanted a gun thats goes blam the first time every time til its mags empty, reload and go again. THE 45 does that well.

So any replacement for that is going to need similar reliability.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Agreed. There are guns in service with significantly higher ROF now. The French 100mm does ~78rpm, for example. Yes, yes, the ammunition for the 100mm is only 23kg instead of 33kg so there's less recoil distance/time spent waiting for the gun to return to battery.

But I bet you can get a 127mm up to about 50-60rpm using the same techniques.
Click to expand...

The French 100mm is a single-piece fixed round (~23kg), while 127mm is a two-piece semi-fixed round (total ~50kg). That complicates the loading process.

I think I'd want to focus on being able to fire a fast burst of 3-6 rounds, rather than on sustained high RoF.
 

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