Stavatti Aerospace

Claims to have received orders!

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/stavatti-receives-purchase-order-50-sm-28-machete
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/stavatti-receives-purchase-order-60-sm-31-stiletto/

And moved to a new site in New York state - https://buffalonews.com/news/local/...cle_c2586c92-9ac4-11ee-8937-c76d2c66bf81.html

I'd like to know where the money comes from. Stavatti's been around for about 20 years, & AFAIK has never produced a single aeroplane. How does it convince anyone to give it any money?
 
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YGBSM.

Oh wait. Published 26 May, 2023. Anything since? Bueller? Bueller?
 
martinbayer said:
Perhaps those are really more like cease and desist orders?
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They seem to be implying that it's Ukraine.

Edit: this is likely BS, but I don't doubt that Ukraine might have reached out to any possible options at some point.

www.lockportjournal.com

Aerospace development delays force IDA benefit extension

Stavatti Aerospace’s plans for producing aircraft in Niagara Falls and creating hundreds of jobs have hit some delays which company officials blame on issues on the world stage.
www.lockportjournal.com www.lockportjournal.com
 
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GTX said:
This is an ongoing scam that needs to be shut down once and for all.
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Yes. Reading further down the article, I see that they are actually claiming that their export sales are classified (!) but also delayed due to DoD being too busy with Ukraine and Gaza. Funny that regular exports for other things seem to be moving along as usual. And the CEO claims to be meeting with DoD officials, but I very much doubt that's true.

I think the local authority is starting to get a clue, extending their tax subsidy only 90 days instead of a full year. Hopefully March will be the end of things.
 
Stavatti has been a joke for 30 years. Dozens of designs and lots of claims but little to back them up. The only real aircraft they ever could present was the Javelin, and it was not a Stavatti design in the first place...
 
Stargazer said:
Stavatti has been a joke for 30 years. Dozens of designs and lots of claims but little to back them up. The only real aircraft they ever could present was the Javelin, and it was not a Stavatti design in the first place...
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I would say dozens of pictures and the never-ending false claims of sales etc. Surely the ones behind it have grown tired of the joke/fantasy by now and/or grown up and left their bedroom.
 
GTX said:
I would say dozens of pictures and the never-ending false claims of sales etc. Surely the ones behind it have grown tired of the joke/fantasy by now and/or grown up and left their bedroom.
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Their F-28 design is named the "Illusion", while their F-36 was called the "Avatar"... that alone should have raised some eyebrows! What are they on, anyway? Their SM-50 provides the answer: it is called the "Lotus Eater II", and we all remember how Ulysses and his crew lost his mind when he ate that stuff!!!:p
 
GTX said:
I would say dozens of pictures and the never-ending false claims of sales etc. Surely the ones behind it have grown tired of the joke/fantasy by now and/or grown up and left their bedroom.
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You would think. But Beskars has been at this for nearly 30 years. I think it started as a bit of a game or fantasy, but the stuff happening near Niagara now is straight-up fraudulent.
 
quellish said:
Hmmmm

Dimitrov v. Stavatti Aerospace Ltd., No. CV-23-00226-PHX-DJH | Casetext Search + Citator

Read Dimitrov v. Stavatti Aerospace Ltd., No. CV-23-00226-PHX-DJH, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database
casetext.com
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10,000 foot view summary:

An angel investor is suing them.
The investor and Stavatti signed a promissory note for $1m, which required Stavatti to repay it etc.
Stavatti, though, says it was not actually the CEO of Stavatti that signed it. It was another employee, impersonating the CEO and forging his signature! Therefor, Stavatti argues, it is not obligated to repay, and it's not their fault!

The investor filed suit, his lawyer sent a summons. Stavatti did not respond. Stavatti says they got the summons, hired a lawyer, and the lawyer said he would take care of it. It did not get taken care of. Surprise! Stavatti says "The lawyer turned out to be about as real as our airplanes!" He was not a lawyer at all and misled Stavatti, so it's not their fault!

....etc.


Stavatti is apparently quite a a few different companies in different states and countries, many of which are listed as parties to the case.
 
Stargazer said:
Stavatti has been a joke for 30 years. Dozens of designs and lots of claims but little to back them up. The only real aircraft they ever could present was the Javelin, and it was not a Stavatti design in the first place...
Click to expand...
Hmmm - given the Italian sounding name, the glitzy artwork, and the lack of real hardware, a certain type of movie suddenly springs to mind...
 
quellish said:
10,000 foot view summary:

An angel investor is suing them.
The investor and Stavatti signed a promissory note for $1m, which required Stavatti to repay it etc.
Stavatti, though, says it was not actually the CEO of Stavatti that signed it. It was another employee, impersonating the CEO and forging his signature! Therefor, Stavatti argues, it is not obligated to repay, and it's not their fault!

The investor filed suit, his lawyer sent a summons. Stavatti did not respond. Stavatti says they got the summons, hired a lawyer, and the lawyer said he would take care of it. It did not get taken care of. Surprise! Stavatti says "The lawyer turned out to be about as real as our airplanes!" He was not a lawyer at all and misled Stavatti, so it's not their fault!

....etc.


Stavatti is apparently quite a a few different companies in different states and countries, many of which are listed as parties to the case.
Click to expand...

The full filings with exhibits is on RECAP -- https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/66786837/dimitrov-v-stavatti-aerospace-limited/

It makes for interesting reading. Notable, a chunk of Dimitrov's money went to a private capital management firm that was supposed to be helping Stavatti raise additional funds. Exhibit 13 describes the clients Stavatti claimed to be targeting -- Ukraine prior to the Russian invasion, and then India, both with their SM-29 Super Fulcrum, which is supposedly a MiG-29 upgrade. And then Ukraine again after it became clear that the country had not collapsed after the invasion. They claim contacts with the Ukrainian Defense Attache in Washington, which I don't doubt. He was probably talking to anyone who claimed to have anything useful in the days right after the invasion. There are also claims of some sort of contracts with an unnamed Middle East state (likely Iraq based on the threats from Syria and Iran mentioned).
 
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Stargazer said:
Perhaps we should suggest a business association with Colani, another Italian-sounding joke of an aircraft designer? :p
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Luigi Colani never committed fraud and as much as his work seems to offend you, and you seem to have an illogical disdain for "designers" of all types, he was trained as an engineer as well as being an artist. Lumping him in with the Stavatti nonsense is absurd.
 
I think most of us here agree that Colani's designs ranged from eccentric-but-more-or-less-usable to downright impractical-to-unusable. I have always regarded him as primarily an artist/designer, with form often overruling function. Not always to my taste - see the attached image of the 1972 Eifelland F1 car - but certainly not a fraud.

Somewhat in the same vein, the Belgian artist Panamarenko made several highly impractical vehicles which I thought were rather nice.

The people involved with Stavatti I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw them.
 

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jcf said:
Luigi Colani never committed fraud and as much as his work seems to offend you, and you seem to have an illogical disdain for "designers" of all types, he was trained as an engineer as well as being an artist. Lumping him in with the Stavatti nonsense is absurd.
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I have never called Colani a fraud, nor even alluded to anything of the sort. His work does not "offend" me so long as people see it for what it is: the musings of an artist. What "offends" me is that he can be presented as an aircraft designer, when most of his aircraft designs range from the awkward to the grotesque. As to his training in engineering, it's of little significance here: despite the fact that there is a common root of knowledge to all engineers, an engineer specialized in building bridges, for instance, may have little knowledge in the science of flying, aerodynamics, material fatigue in altitude or in acceleration, and so forth.
 
Stargazer said:
I only get an "Error 404" page.
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Try the Internet Archive:

Stavatti Submits Bid to Acquire Piaggio |

Stavatti Aerospace is a 21st century aircraft manufacturer and systems integrator that designs high performance Close Air Support, COIN, NGAD and Counter Insurgency solutions. Stavatti products include the SM-27 Machete, SM-47 Super Machete and SM-39 Razor.
web.archive.org

For the record, actual final bids for Piaggio were delayed until January 2024. The the best of my knowledge, no buyer has been selected yet, but the approved bidders are all “first-level companies or consortia mainly with an industrial background, with an interest in buying the company in its entirety and mostly based in Italy or Europe." I don't think Stavatti are among them, somehow...

www.ainonline.com

Piaggio Commissioners Set January 30 Deadline for Final Bids | AIN

Piaggio bidders now have until January 30 to submit final and binding offers for the company.
www.ainonline.com www.ainonline.com
 
TomS said:
Yes. Reading further down the article, I see that they are actually claiming that their export sales are classified (!) but also delayed due to DoD being too busy with Ukraine and Gaza. Funny that regular exports for other things seem to be moving along as usual. And the CEO claims to be meeting with DoD officials, but I very much doubt that's true.

I think the local authority is starting to get a clue, extending their tax subsidy only 90 days instead of a full year. Hopefully March will be the end of things.
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Yep. The tax exemption was not extended any further:

buffalonews.com

NCIDA denies tax break extension for Stavatti Aerospace

Stavatti Aerospace has run out of time for its ambitious plan to build military and commercial jets at a vacant military hangar in Niagara Falls.
buffalonews.com buffalonews.com

Stavatti Aerospace has run out of time for its ambitious plan to build military and commercial jets at a vacant military hangar in Niagara Falls.

Three and a half years after approving tax breaks for the plan, the Niagara County Industrial Development Agency on Wednesday refused to extend the subsidies for Stavatti Aerospace Ltd., after concluding the project just wasn’t getting off the ground.
The rare move by a local IDA came after the project had already received multiple extensions since winning its first approval in October 2020.

It also came despite executives saying they had just received a $600 million letter of intent from an unnamed “U.S. ally” for Stavatti to retrofit 16 older Soviet-era airplanes with updated U.S. parts – the latest similar claim by a company that has yet to actually produce a plane. The March 20 letter is not a formal or binding purchase contract.
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trust but verify. DoD should have risked a bit. The DCMA could have rooted out scams pretty quick. for the sake of the industrial base survival w/ a bit of redundancy, small aerospace companies need to be thrown little bones and see if they can perform .. full gov capture will tank innovation. We are getting closer to full capture like the adversaries we are allegedly against. unwise to even attempt to be innovative beyond toy garbage being thrown over transume for the current unmanned market let alone the manned stuff. Noone is going to beleive anything that isn't at least taking off and landing in some low scale like the BWB from Jet... out in California.
 
jsport said:
trust but verify. DoD should have risked a bit. The DCMA could have rooted out scams pretty quick. for the sake of the industrial base survival w/ a bit of redundancy, small aerospace companies need to be thrown little bones and see if they can perform .. full gov capture will tank innovation. We are getting closer to full capture like the adversaries we are allegedly against. unwise to even attempt to be innovative beyond toy garbage being thrown over transume for the current unmanned market let alone the manned stuff. Noone is going to beleive anything that isn't at least taking off and landing in some low scale like the BWB from Jet... out in California.
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Stavatti are con artists. Are you suggesting that they deserve to be shoveled DoD money "just to see"?
 
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