StandOff & PGM Weapons

The above does usefully provide rough dimensions of the versions. 100/250 are apparently 70” long, with the former being 6” and the latter supposedly 7” (though the cross section seems square rather than circular). This might allow it to roughly fill the USN MACE requirement of two per F-35 bay, though with less payload. The 500 is 13’ long and somewhat more narrow than AGM-158. It likely could fit in the F-35A/C internal bay as well.
 
Josh_TN said:
The above does usefully provide rough dimensions of the versions. 100/250 are apparently 70” long, with the former being 6” and the latter supposedly 7” (though the cross section seems square rather than circular). This might allow it to roughly fill the USN MACE requirement of two per F-35 bay, though with less payload. The 500 is 13’ long and somewhat more narrow than AGM-158. It likely could fit in the F-35A/C internal bay as well.
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Isn't the 250 around the same size as SDB? That means in theory 4 for fit
 
kqcke for you said:
Isn't the 250 around the same size as SDB? That means in theory 4 for fit
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It looks a little too chunky for that, but possibly. SDB is 6” x 7”; if it really is 7”x7” box then it might be compatible. There certainly would be a big market for a weapon compatible with the SDB pneumatic rack. The ranges they claim to achieve with these designs make me question those sizes, although perhaps folding wings plus the very modest warhead can achieve those distances with a small turbofan. The 500 mile range for the full length -500 model seems reasonable for a full length weapon of wider diameter, especially with only 100lbs of payload. It seems roughly JSM in size but with much more volume reserved for fuel vice warhead.

This entire series definitely relies on precision delivery to make a very modest explosive content viable. An SDB 2 has the same payload as the 500 variant.
 
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kqcke for you said:
I mean If 7 Inch is the largest point in the diameter then it would fit as SDB is 70.8 in long and 7.5 in width. Even then Spear 3 is 7.1 in so it would fit.
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I think SDB is only 6” in width, with the wings adding another inch to the vertical. But that said, it seems sized to fit on that dispenser and there is no reason to have such form factor unless you were specifically interested in that rack for internal carriage. So I suspect you are right and that this is the market they are trying to break into: F-35 users (F-15E and F-18E as well, but that’s a much smaller customer base).
 
bobbymike said:
www.asdnews.com

Kratos Completes Significant Milestone on Cost Optimized Lim

Kratos Defense & Security Solutions, Inc. (Nasdaq: KTOS), a technology company in Defense, National Security and Global Markets, today announced that Kratos Tur
www.asdnews.com www.asdnews.com
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I was wondering when some would develop something like this. It is convenient that there are off the shelf turbofans in most any size, but commercial engines are designed for long engine life hours where as for military applications, engine life can be severely truncated for missiles and even reusable UAVs. The USN and USAF are talking about CCA airframe lifetimes of hundreds of hours; a Williamsjet is going to last you thousands. Unless you are stripping out old engines and reusing them on future UAVs, it is a huge waste.
 
red admiral said:
Sounds a lot cheaper to pay Williams to rerate their engines for higher performance and lower life than pay a few hundred million on a new engine development
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Depends on the trade offs being made. It sounds like there were also thrust improvements as part of goal, along with cheap parts and production. That is a lot more than simply asking WJ to relax their testing standards.

ETA: and more over Kratos probably wants to internalize their supply chain if possible, as well as break into a new expanding market that current engine makers do not occupy. Anduril is looking at 3D printing turbine parts for short hour life engines as well.
 
Grey Havoc said:
The paperwork alone would be likely a killer though.
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There's also paperwork in developing a new engine

Josh_TN said:
Depends on the trade offs being made. It sounds like there were also thrust improvements as part of goal, along with cheap parts and production. That is a lot more than simply asking WJ to relax their testing standards.
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Rerating = increased temp for lower life hot section, could also look at rpm increases etc. for this sort of application. Its not relaxing testing standards, its simple operating limit changes to get more performance but with reducing life and margin.

The Williams engines are already cheap off the back of many years of production. Sure you could probably trim some cost with a new bespoke engine, but you need to sell a lot of engines to recoup those development costs and start saving money.
 
red admiral said:
Rerating = increased temp for lower life hot section, could also look at rpm increases etc. for this sort of application. Its not relaxing testing standards, its simple operating limit changes to get more performance but with reducing life and margin.

The Williams engines are already cheap off the back of many years of production. Sure you could probably trim some cost with a new bespoke engine, but you need to sell a lot of engines to recoup those development costs and start saving money.
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Agreed, remember that the USAF used a significantly-uprated early J52 engine designed for the A-4 Skyhawk to power their Mach 2 supercruising Hound Dog missile. They just ran it faster and hotter, for a ~3 hour expected life.
 
Fair enough, you can trade thrust for engine life. But the Kratos effort seems to also attempt to trade cost for engine life as well. I think they are looking for ways to cut manufacturing costs if your engine only has to last for dozens or low hundreds of hours.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Agreed, remember that the USAF used a significantly-uprated early J52 engine designed for the A-4 Skyhawk to power their Mach 2 supercruising Hound Dog missile. They just ran it faster and hotter, for a ~3 hour expected life.
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And in the other direction J-85 going into F-5 and Viper into Jet Provost, with both engines finding a massive number of platforms to be used in...
 

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