Spitfire Variants

The brilliant foresight and inventiveness of A. A. Griffith is illustrated in Fig. 4. This is a drawing of his cowled airscrew project dated 1940. The gas generator consisted of a series of independent turbine/compressor stages rotating in opposite directions at their own selected speeds. It became known as the 'contraflow' unit and was the first gas turbine element built at Rolls-Royce, Derby. Although it was under development for several years it was never a practical success, mainly due to the gas leakage between the turbine and compressor annular passages. It would not run self-sustained and had to be pressurised from an independent source. For the younger engineers at the firm this was an important lesson—Griffith's turbofan concept was theoretically sound, but it could only be realised in practice in a design of engine in which the compression and expansion processes were efficient.
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He's certainly a plausible candidate and submitted many turbine-related patent applications in the early war years. Whatever ICT was proposed it surely had to be axial to stand any chance of fitting in the nose, but length would still be a problem
 
overscan (PaulMM) said:
The brilliant foresight and inventiveness of A. A. Griffith is illustrated in Fig. 4. This is a drawing of his cowled airscrew project dated 1940. The gas generator consisted of a series of independent turbine/compressor stages rotating in opposite directions at their own selected speeds. It became known as the 'contraflow' unit and was the first gas turbine element built at Rolls-Royce, Derby.
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So, if I understand that drawing correctly there is an annular intake at the rear of the engine with a similar annular exhaust behind. Is that right?
 
The "Spitfire" drawings seems to be purely concerned with the way a ducted airscrew would impact forward view from the cockpit as opposed to representing an actual engine installation.
 
I agree, I really don't see any scope for fitting an ICT, as they were then, in the nose even if the fuel tank was removed. An interesting hypothetical although seemingly completely impractical
 
Has anyone built a successful hollow spinner engine intake?
 
Well, successful...
The first Fw 190 prototype started with a hollow spinner, eventually combined with a 10-bladed geared fan. Wind tunnel tests showed the spinner offered negligible advantages in drag. Initial trials revealed overheating problems, both with the engine itself and in the cockpit. No appreciable differences in cooling between ducted and conventional spinner, so the V1's ducted spinner remained a one-off.
Images from The Focke-Wulf Fw 190 by Gordon Swanborough and William Green, Pilot Press 1976 and Aircraft of the Third Reich - Volume One - Arado to Focke-Wulf by William Green and others, Aerospace Publishing 2010.
 

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Justo, they're amazing pics, but it might be better to post them in the correct threads instead of in the Spitfire thread, with which they have little to do except for one single attempt to fit a radial radiator?
 
Arjen and Justo just answered Riggerrob question, thus originating a new topic. I would suggest splitting the thread to preserve Interest on both subjects. I’ll try to restore it
 
MihoshiK said:
Justo, they're amazing pics, but it might be better to post them in the correct threads instead of in the Spitfire thread, with which they have little to do except for one single attempt to fit a radial radiator?
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In this thread
 

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Justo Miranda said:
Deltafan said:
Justo Miranda said:
Spitfire variants-1
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Thanks Justo.

Is there any story about this Spitfire with Sabre engine and contra-rotating propellers ?
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Supermarine naval fighter proposal (October 1942) drawing on the bench
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Proposed naval versions of the Supermarine Spitfire are discussed at this thread:

The books British Secret Projects: Fighters & Bombers 1935-1950 and British Secret Projects 4: Fighters 1935-1950 provide technical details regarding proposed variants of the Spitfire for the Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm, including the Supermarine 333.
 
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnVJJ9BVLGU

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Those who flew it loved it. Those who didn't loathed it. The Supermarine Seafire was as controversial as it was lethal. Here pilots share their experience, observations and opinions of this poorly understood emergency fleet fighter.
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Adam Kowalski2 months ago
Another great material! British carrier operations are almost unknown in our part of Europe. 2:36 it's Spitfire from polish 302 fighter squadron. Thx for this easter egg. My grandma's brother was a fighter pilot fighting in Spitfires that days. Greetings from Poland.
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Forgive me if this has been discussed, but has anyone seen drawings of the proposed Supermarine Valiant?
 
Those are fascinating, thank you! I don't know why but I expected something more different to the Mk.21.
 
Note sure if this thread is the best for this info: I attach a "Spitfire genealogical table" taken from Postam, Hay, Scott book "Design and development of weapons", 1964.
 

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GTX said:
Hi folks,

Looking for information on rare Supermarine Spitfire variants (either one-offs or paper projects). I am especially interested in any possible radial engined proposals.

Regards,

Greg
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I seem to recall coming across a mention of a Spitfire fitted with an all moving tail based on the Miles M.52s, dont remember where I encountered this and have never stumbled on any images but it may be something for you to look into. Theres a couple others I will mention that I'd imagine you've already came across, but just incase, the Mk.IV (later designated XX) and the Beer Keg carrying Spits.
Honestly I'd be interested in any information on the M.52 tail Spit if anyone has any, images especially. I think it was Eric Brown who flew it if that helps?
 
TsrJoe said:
Don Brown noted a Spitfire Mk.IX being allocated to Phillips & Powis (Miles) for fitment of an all moving tail, unfortunately i'v not tracked down which airframe as yet
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Would that have been the one intended to be fitted with a "Malinowski trailer", a twin-boom "tail" unit with the tailplane full of fuel, hinged to the main spar beside the cannon so that it would lift itself and float up and down as required to fly stably? The original tail stayed in place. According to Price in The Spitfire Story, it was to have been a Mk VIII, but he does not say whether the proposal ever progressed. See also https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/stefan-malinowski-aircraft-projects.16576/
 
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Not counting the 312, anyone know of any attempts to adapt the Spitfire to using a ventral radiator? It's been stated that Joe Smith tried to adapt the Spitfire to using some type of ventral Meredith radiator, but the Air Ministry objected as they thought it would excessively disrupt production. I did find a drawing of the Spitfire I that tested a Meredith ramjet that was mounted ventrally. Could (visually) such a Spitfire look like a version of that?
 

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