Speculation on the 7th, 8th and 9th generation Fighter

[Michel Van]

This here is discussion about future after 6th generation Fighter

First what is the 6th generation Fighter Jet ?
in Short:

Away from dog fight toward beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile combat or Air-to-ground missile strike
with help of Drones, Satellite, Advance Computer systems (even A.I.) with high-capacity networking.
Either Piloted, Remote controlled, or complete A.I. aka the Fighter plane is a Robot !
Advanced variable-cycle engines able to cruise economically, but deliver high thrust if needed.
option for energy weapons instead of a mechanical Gun

The 6th Gen should be ready in 2040 and replace allot of Aircraft like: Rafale, F-18, F-15, F-22, Eurofighter, J-20.

Now my speculation of successor for 7th Gen around 2050-2080 time period.
most important change will be Engines it burn alternate fuel since Oil get rare or is depleted.
This here is most drastic change for 7th Gen, because it depends what for fuel it will use synthetic kerosine, liquified natural Gas or hydrogen
it will shape the form of Aircraft and aerodynamics, do it propellant tanks and it bulky fuel (like Hydrogene),

I beliefe that the Gauss Gun (coil Gun) could become a operational weapon within next 10 years,
Thanks to development in Electric cars on battery and magnets for electro motors (thanks Musk)
The Fighter could theoretically use a Gauss Gun as hypersonic weapon if gun get power to do this without exploding.

Also get the 7th gen advance ECM and advance crypto communication to prevent that Enemy upload false information.
Here will be biggest arms race in cryptology in data communication for 7th gen with help of Quantumcomputers

Also that 7th Gen could fully automatic with A.I. making the plane a Robot.
Since no pilot is onboard this could impact on the form of Aircraft and aerodynamics, by removing the cockpit.
but a pure A.I. fighter could bring dangerous situation, if A.I. goes rogue and starts to attack airliners...

The 8th Gen could be in time period of years 2120~2130
This time table depends of life time of 7th gen and it use and operation cost
certain it will feature new Materials and productions methods of 22th century
Even New Engines maybe ones that use superconductor MHD to propel Air electrodynamicly and produce thrust.
but bigger change it will undergoes is possibly change in military doctrine,
Like Dog-fight is back introduce, or back to Pilots (or make the Aircraft a Cyborg !)

The 9th Gen introduce in 2180 or after 2200
6th 7th and 8th will feature high cost do all the new materials and gadgets
And Airforces will use them so long as possible.
and there purpose will be defined by Wars and Military doctrine of 22 the century
i can only speculate to technology in 200 years, it could look not like Aircraft of 21th century

 

[Michel Van]

This here is speculation about future after 6th generation Fighter

First what is the 6th generation Fighter Jet ?

Away from dog fight toward beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile combat or Air-to-ground missile strike
with help of Drones, Satellite, Advance Computer systems (even A.I.) with high-capacity networking.
Either Piloted, Remote controlled, or complete A.I. aka the Fighter plane is a Robot !
Advanced variable-cycle engines able to cruise economically, but deliver high thrust if needed.
option for energy weapons instead of a mechanical Gun

The 6th Gen should be ready in 2040 and replace allot of Aircraft like: Rafale, F-18, F-15, F-22, Eurofighter, J-20.

Now my speculation of successor for 7th Gen around 2050-2080 time period.
most important change will be Engines it burn alternate fuel since Oil get rare or is depleted (around 2050 ?)
This here is important for 7th Gen design, because it depends what for fuel it will use: synthetic kerosine, liquified natural Gas or hydrogen.
It will shape the form of Aircraft and aerodynamics, do it propellant tanks and it bulky fuel (like Hydrogene),

I beliefe that the Gauss Gun (coil Gun) could become a operational weapon within next 10 years,
Thanks to development in Electric cars on battery and magnets for electro motors (thanks Musk)
The Fighter could theoretically use a Gauss Gun as hypersonic weapon, if gun get power to do this by the Aircraft.

Also get the 7th gen advance ECM and advance crypto communication to prevent that Enemy upload false information.
Here will be biggest arms race in cryptology in data communication for 6th and 7th gen with help of Quantumcomputers

Also that 7th Gen could fully automatic with A.I. making the plane a Robot.
Since no pilot is onboard this could impact on the form of Aircraft and aerodynamics, by removing the cockpit.
but a pure A.I. fighter could bring dangerous situation, if A.I. goes rogue and starts to attack airliners...

The 8th Gen could be in time period of years 2120~2130
This time table depends of life time of 7th gen and it use and operation cost
certain it will feature new Materials and productions methods of 22th century
Even New Engines maybe ones that use superconductor MHD to propel Air electrodynamicly and produce thrust.
but bigger change it will undergoes is possibly change in military doctrine,
Like Dog-fight is back introduce, or back to Pilots (or make the Aircraft a Cyborg !)
Even near space combat were Fighter do suborbital flight and launch rocket or fire Gauss Gun against Targets in Orbit.

The 9th Gen could be introduce in 2180 or after 2200
7th and 8th will feature high cost do all the new materials and gadgets
And Airforces will use them so long as possible.
and there purpose will be defined by Wars and Military doctrine of 22 the century
i can only speculate to technology in 200 years, it could look not like Aircraft of 21th century...

 

[Dilandu]

Frankly, I'm not sure that the logic of "more complex, more advanced fighter" is not a logical dead end. While aircraft clearly benefit from technology progress - missiles and drones benefit from it much more. By now, the idea of "superfighter" is basically based on the idea that "we could not send out valuable pilots in battle on the less than cutting-edge machines". But let's remove the pilot - and?...

My suspicion is, that for the cost of one F-22 or Su-57 superfighters, we already could field a dozen or more much simpler, cheaper interceptor drones, controlled by distributed sensors network (land-based radars, AEW's, satellites, ect.). Which would overcame superfighter just by simple numbers and indifference to the danger. Already, AI tactical control systems demonstrated (in simulated air battles) that AI-controlled low-capability aircraft would always won over human-controlled high-capability aircraft. That is achieved simply by the fact that AI could plan for several tactical "steps" ahead, controlling all its aircraft as one system - in which each maneuver is part of the long-terms strategy.

Of course, we could just replace human pilot on superfighter with AI as well. But... what's the point? If there are no pilot to protect, we could afford the fighter to be much simpler & cheaper, more adapted to mass production and losses replacement.

So my conclusion - by mid-XXI century, the backbone of fighter aircraft would be cheap supersonic drones, close to "moderatedly stealthy F-104 or Mig-21" than to modern machines.

 

[Michel Van]

your right Dilandu

The 6th Generation is about integration of real time data
Into Flight computer by Satellites during Mission
The Strategists hope to do flexible Mission adaptions.
Special if Fighter use drones as support and their computer communicate under each other.

The Achilles tendon is communication and it protections against hacking!
This will influence the 6 and 7th generation flight computer deeply.
Also Strategy emerge against Satellites communications with Fighters.

On A.I. as pilots it will be huge struggle between YES and NO
It depends who wins: the Pilots fraction vs computer scientist in Military.
And there will be Armies who are Traditional, who insist on human Pilots.
i think this will end in a compromise either Pilot with AI supported avionic
or Neural-Link the pilot brain with flight Computer make the fighter jet a Cyborg.
(either on board or remote controlled)

 

[shin_getter]

5th Gen: Super Cruise, Fire Control band-Stealth, LPI Radar
6th Gen: Broadband Stealth, Defensive Laser (2035)

7th Gen: Offensive Laser, Wideband EM capability (radar/comm/jam/attack/etc) (2050)
8th Gen: Airbreathing hypersonics, anti-space capability, advanced active thermal management (2065)

Frankly, I'm not sure that the logic of "more complex, more advanced fighter" is not a logical dead end.

I don't think we've reached the end of "Advanced fighter" yet. We might even be moving into a regime of aircraft gigantism unparalleled historically.

For ground combat, encounters often have a large element of luck involved and the superior vehicle can not ensure victory, which really puts a limit on maximum cost of vehicles.

For ships, with the "out fight everything that can't be outrun" situation, a more capable vehicle is theoretically capable of exchange ratios reaching infinity against inferior opponents. This resulted in a handful of ships consuming entire naval budgets because it'd outfight equal costs in smaller combatants.

In air combat, out run everything that can't be outfought already was a thing. It only happens that scaling laws means that the optimal vehicle was not very expensive and increased investment only added payload and range. In addition human situation awareness and processing means randomness is a thing and combat is not wholly deterministic.

If the superior vehicle can reliably defeat inferior vehicles regardless of numerical superiority, vehicle capability and cost will increase until this relation is no longer true. With AI, air combat can become more predictable performance decisive.

If the future of air superiority is some DEW platform, scaling issue will likely favor ever larger aircraft (see 747 based airborne laser) as it'd outrange everything and can kill opponents at shorter range faster at lower costs.

 

[Avimimus]

Another way of looking at this is 'what technologies are likely to progress' and then working out what combinations of them are possible.

Radar stealth and sensors: Progress will be made in countering stealth through having greater networking of radar systems, as well as other improvements to radar processing and use of a greater variety of radar spectrums. However, radar stealth will still be useful for improving the easy of electronic countermeasures and reducing engagement ranges. As a result designs will progressively incorporate refinements to radar stealth technologies.

IR/Optical stealth and sensors: There are limits to IR/Optical stealth, including the reality that the plume of hot air from a jet engine will be visible under many atmospheric conditions (even if the aircraft wasn't). Sensors will continue to improve in this regard. However, their utility will still be limited in bad weather, and the development of DIRCM/DEWs should limit their utility for missile seekers.

Missile engines: Refinements of technology for air-breathing missiles should lead to increased kinematic performance for the missile weight. This will increase the ZNE.

Missile size trends: The need to deal with stealth and improved countermeasures may lead to an increase in seeker size (especially if compound seekers are used) which may push missiles larger. However, internal stowage of missiles may also increase the push for smaller missiles.

Aerodynamics: Improvements in production of light weight sensors will allow increasing redundancy and reliance on active stabilisation - allowing the overall stability margin to continue to decline (even further below what the FBW revolution allows). This will allow a refinement of L/D ratios and a move towards a higher degree of taillessness.
Further speculation: This may be limited to some extent by a need to retain supersonic maneuverability to defeat missiles, however the combination of radar stealth creating shorter engagement ranges and air-breathing missiles increasing their ZNEs eventually kinematic defeat of missiles may cease to be viable, with a transition to stealth, countermeasures and DIRCM/DEWs as the primary defenses.

Engines: Progress will continue to be made on variable bypass ratios. This will reduce the amount of fuel weight required for a given range while retaining the capacity for supersonic performance. Development of hypersonic engines and designs may take place, but their relative inefficiency will limit how widespread they become, with supersonic cruise and supersonic dash designs continuing to be common.
Further speculation: I'm less certain about the use of liquid hydrogen as a fuel for fighter designs, it has merits but would substantially increase the internal volume of the design, and other synthetic fuels may be more likely (although liquid hydrogen should become common for transport aircraft).

Size vs. numbers: A larger airframe can have a higher volume to surface area ratio. This allows sustaining higher speeds, having higher payloads, more powerful DIRCM/DEW capabilities, and longer ranged sensors. Size and maintenance costs or complexity are also not directly correlated (e.g. maintaining a large twin-engined fighter can cost a similar amount as a medium sized twin-engined fighter). This makes large platforms attractive and we may see several 40 ton designs, especially as maneuverability requirements become relaxed (see above). However, smaller nations may still need to field an adequate number of fighters and thus designs in the 20 ton range will remain.

Networking: Both manned and unmanned platforms (as well as non-airborne platforms) will be integrated into sensor networks to better counter stealth and to provide redundant mid-course guidance to missiles fired from long ranges behind the sensors platforms.
Further speculation: Due to risks of jamming and spoofing networks will be layered, with smaller local networks integrated with each other prior to being integrated with other networks by longer ranged datalinks. While all systems will be increasingly integrated, there will also be identifiable discrete 'units' engaged in 'aerial combined arms'.

As for what will appear in each generation - a lot depends on how quickly these various technologies mature with respect to each other.

There is a whole conversation about how air-defenses will co-evolve - but I think that is enough for now.

 

[La-Fuente Technologies]

One thing's for sure: Technology will be so wild and so advanced by the 22th or 23rd centuries that a Ninth-Generation Aircraft will look vastly different from a Tenth-Generation Aircraft, which will look vastly different from an Eleventh-Generation Aircraft, and so on

 

[paralay]

1st generation: development of the concept of the aircraft (1882 – 1905)
2nd generation: scouts (1905 – 1914)
3rd generation: the appearance of fighters and bombers (1914 – 1930)
4th generation: retractable landing gear, development of aerodynamics (1930 – 1940)
5th generation: perfect aerodynamics, closed lights (1940 – 1945)
6th generation: development of the concept of a jet aircraft (1940 – 1950)
7th generation: serial jet, swept wing (1950 – 1955)
8th generation: supersonic M = 1.5, guided missiles, radar (1955 – 1960)
9th generation: supersonic M = 2, triangular wing (1960 – 1965)
10th generation: M =3, IGK (1965 – 1970)
11th generation: operational overload 9 g (1970 – 1990)
12th generation: stealth technology, supercruise (1990 – 2015)
13th generation: unmanned aircraft (2015 – 2040)
14th generation: hypersonic aviation.

 

[martinbayer]

C'mon, you know your list is not complete without explicitly mentioning FTL speeds...

 

[paralay]

Features of the aircraft, theses:
1. The presence of "internal gravity", the crew feels comfortable in any position of the hull
2. The nuclear reactor on board is not confirmed, as there are no radiators of a very large area. There is also a cargo compartment in the proposed location of the reactor.
3. The upper dome (anode) and the lower dome (cathode) are interconnected by a graphite rod of large cross section through matching devices. Electrons cluster on the outside of the domes, an effect known from physics. The domes work as receivers of "atmospheric electricity", so there is no energy source on board, except for an emergency one. The domes are presumably isolated from the rest of the structure.
4. The source of "atmospheric electricity" can be a transmitting station, planet Earth, the Sun, which is important for interplanetary flights. Within the framework of the planet, the device moves without restrictions.
5. The device instantly moves between our "three-dimensional world" and some parallel reality. Judging by the available descriptions, it is also part of the planet Earth, developed and inhabited. The territory corresponding to the Moon, in that reality, is very far away, so it is more profitable to fly there here.
6. The presence of weapons on board has not been confirmed
7. The design of the device should correspond to the level of the German aviation industry of the forties, with the exception of anti-gravity devices and their control systems.
8. The three rods released during landing are not landing gear struts, they are grounding balls.
9. When landing, the plate does not lie on the ground, as well as the submarine on the bottom

 

[martinbayer]

I'd say you crossed that particular limitation with the mention of flying saucers.

 

[La-Fuente Technologies]

I'd say you crossed that particular limitation with the mention of flying saucers.

Agreed. Flying Saucers are technically spaceships.