SPEAR - Selectable Precision Effects At Range

Ronny said:
it would be great if they also buy SPEAR-EW.
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I think both Italy and Germany are nailed on for Spear-EW. Both are replacing their Tornado ECR so want a robust SEAD/DEAD capability and are wiling to invest in it. German's certainly for their Typhoon EK (not sure for their F-35 though, mind you you would have thought that when carrying a B-61/12 in 1 bay it would make a lot of sense for the other bay to be full of Spear-EW). Italy for Typhoon and F-35.
 
NMaude said:
If the F-16s have the Mil-Std-1776 weapons interface then they can carry the SPEAR 2 and SPEAR 3.
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They would need a full integration campaign though. And that will cost.
 
I wonder if we'll see a ground-launched version of the SPEAR 3? All it would need is a suitable launch-booster and IMO an off-the-shelf booster would be the 7" diameter rocket-motor from the Hellfire II/Brimstone missile. All it would need is a suitable adapter to mate it with the missile.
 
NMaude said:
I wonder if we'll see a ground-launched version of the SPEAR 3?
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Thats LPS my friend / the moment LPS development is finnished is the moment WE have an ground launched Spear 3.
NMaude said:
All it would need is a suitable launch-booster and IMO an off-the-shelf booster would be the 7" diameter rocket-motor from the Hellfire II/Brimstone missile. All it would need is a suitable adapter to mate it with the missile.
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Question is if that motor has the power to achieve the needed conditions for the turbojet to start.
 
kqcke for you said:
Thats LPS my friend / the moment LPS development is finnished is the moment WE have an ground launched Spear 3.
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What is LPS?

kqcke for you said:
Question is if that motor has the power to achieve the needed conditions for the turbojet to start.
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The rocket-motor produces between 600Lb and 700Lb of thrust for several seconds so it it should be able to get it up to high subsonic speed.
 
NMaude said:
What is LPS?
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MBDA Advances Proposals For Land-Launched Missile | Aviation Week Network

The weapon has been designed under contract through a recently completed 2023 UK Defense Ministry contract.
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com
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NMaude said:
The rocket-motor produces between 600Lb and 700Lb of thrust for several seconds so it it should be able to get it up to high subsonic speed.
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Remember you now have a mutch higher payload as well. You maybe loss around half of the weight for guidance and warhead but add 1 Spear (~90kg) and the adapter in between. Pretty mutch ~115kg instead of 50kg.
 
kqcke for you said:
Remember you now have a mutch higher payload as well. You maybe loss around half of the weight for guidance and warhead but add 1 Spear (~90kg) and the adapter in between. Pretty mutch ~115kg instead of 50kg.
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Keep in mind that the Hellfire's rocket-motor boosted it to supersonic speed while a launch-booster for the SPEAR 3 only needs to launch it to medium to high subsonic speed before its' turbojet takes over.
 
NMaude said:
Keep in mind that the Hellfire's rocket-motor boosted it to supersonic speed while a launch-booster for the SPEAR 3 only needs to launch it to medium to high subsonic speed before its' turbojet takes over.
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Sure but then again we still have 2.3 times the weight to carry and we also don't know the start requierments for Spear 3. It may works but without testing we probaly wont know anytime soon or well we would need to know the launch speed so one can do the math for an theoretical design.
 
kqcke for you said:
Sure but then again we still have 2.3 times the weight to carry and we also don't know the start requierments for Spear 3.
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That mass increase might actually be of benefit as the Hellfire missile has launch G-load of 10Gs and I don't know what the max longitudinal G-load the SPEAR 3 can tolerate, so long as it can reach 300-40 MPH before booster burnout that should be adequate.

kqcke for you said:
It may works but without testing we probaly wont know anytime soon or well we would need to know the launch speed so one can do the math for an theoretical design.
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In regards to the kind of delta-V the launch booster gives we can work that out using the Rocket Equation.

Now as to the Hellfire rocket-motor that's just one of a number of off-the-shelf rocket-motors that could be used as a launch-booster, others that come to mind are the Sidewinder's Mk-36 rocket-motor, the AMRAAMs WPU-6/B propulsion unit (Isp:265s, Thrust: 3774Lb, burn time: 7.75s), AIM-7M/Ps Mk-58 rocket-motor and the ESSM's rear-section (Mk-135 rocket-motor and tail-control unit).
 
Same here zjz, I would really like to see the US ETV especially to compare it with the SPEAR 3.
 
ETV looks like a larger platform more focused on cost/production and speed of development. I think the Baracuda 250 would be the closest platform in size and performance; the 500 is the Anduril ETV entry.
 
Actually the true SPEAR analog in US service would be SDB-2. It is actually in service and not a theoretical weapon and has similar guidance options, where as the annduril offerings are a big quest mark and likely sacrifice multi mode seekers for low cost single spectrum ones. Of course SPEAR3 has a lot of advantages having an actual engine.

Is there an estimated cost per round for SPEAR 3?
 
Josh_TN said:
Actually the true SPEAR analog in US service would be SDB-2.
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To be a true analogue it would need to have a turbojet sustainer.

GTX said:
www.twz.com

UK’s New SPEAR 3 Mini Cruise Missile Succeeds In First End-To-End Test

The SPEAR 3 is set to provide the British F-35B stealth fighter with a much-needed standoff air-to-ground attack capability. The SPEAR 3 is set to provide the British F-35B stealth fighter with a much-needed standoff air-to-ground attack capability.
www.twz.com www.twz.com
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Excellent! Now that actual flight tests have started I wonder how long it will be before the SPEAR 3 enters production?
 
Not that long I would think NMaude, At least I would think that as long as SPEAR 3 keeps meeting it's performance targets during prototyping we might even get limited production started sooner rather than later.
 
NMaude said:
To be a true analogue it would need to have a turbojet sustainer.



Excellent! Now that actual flight tests have started I wonder how long it will be before the SPEAR 3 enters production?
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I say a year should be atleast *be expected for Spear 3. Then again we don't know how mutch work is done or if others may even produce them too.

*edit
 
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FighterJock said:
Not that long I would think NMaude, At least I would think that as long as SPEAR 3 keeps meeting it's performance targets during prototyping we might even get limited production started sooner rather than later.
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If you treat Meteor as an analogue, and the first guided flight as equivalent to this test of SPEAR, then it took the RAF three more years to get it into service.
 
DWG said:
If you treat Meteor as an analogue, and the first guided flight as equivalent to this test of SPEAR, then it took the RAF three more years to get it into service.
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That's about what I'd expect, 2-3 years from first test flight of the weapon to service entry.
 
Scott Kenny said:
That's about what I'd expect, 2-3 years from first test flight of the weapon to service entry.
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Given the current geopolitical situation in Eastern Europe what are the chances this development schedule is expedited on an urgent basis?
 
NMaude said:
Given the current geopolitical situation in Eastern Europe what are the chances this development schedule is expedited on an urgent basis?
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Not much, IMO.

It'd take some much more aggressive moves from the Russians to make the people who fly Typhoons want to spend more money to get the certification flights done faster.
 
Something else I'd like to see is the development of a ground-launched version of the SPEAR 3 and for an off-the-shelf launch-booster the Roxel Vulcan rocket-motor used in the Brimstone missile (Along with with its' tail-fins for stability).
 
How about SPICE250 ER?

defense-update.com

Rafael Extends SPICE 250 Range with New Turbojet Engine - Defense Update:

Rafael Advanced Defense Systems Ltd. has unveiled a new variant of the SPICE 250 air-to-surface munition, equipped with an integrated turbojet engine that extends flight range to 150 km. RAFAEL unveiled the new version today at the Aero India 2021 exhibition. SPICE is combat-proven and in...
defense-update.com defense-update.com
 
Spear 3 seems to be a positive process as it was in red by MoD, so is it turning yellow?

Hopefully, it is to be successful, so They can get the EW version soon after it begins using Spear 3 in services.

Also, I wonder if the SPEAR glide version will replace paveway iv? - I hope ( but not sure if it is as powerfully explosive as a 500lb bomb) as full body explosive as in the place fuel and engine indeed?

So, 4 types (if including LPS/ground-based with MRLS and iLauncher, boxer LPS, navy VLS), so it will become cheap as multiple products.
 
djpowell1984 said:
Also, I wonder if the SPEAR glide version will replace paveway iv?
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In addition to a SPEAR 3 glide version what about a cheaper, shorter range SPEAR 3 where the TJ-150 turbojet and fuel tanks are replaced by a solid rocket-motor? While it wouldn't have as long a range it would be substantially cheaper and be able to be ground-launched without needing a launch-booster.
 
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djpowell1984 said:
Spear 3 seems to be a positive process as it was in red by MoD, so is it turning yellow?

Hopefully, it is to be successful, so They can get the EW version soon after it begins using Spear 3 in services.

Also, I wonder if the SPEAR glide version will replace paveway iv? - I hope ( but not sure if it is as powerfully explosive as a 500lb bomb) as full body explosive as in the place fuel and engine indeed?

So, 4 types (if including LPS/ground-based with MRLS and iLauncher, boxer LPS, navy VLS), so it will become cheap as multiple products.
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There are 5 Spear 'variants' that have been mentioned/seen. (Not Spear 3....thats the MoD programme name, we don't call FCASW Spear 5 for example)

Spear - Mini cruise missile - At least 120nm range (220km+) warhead at least twice the size of Brimstone
Spear-EW - Decoy/Stand in jammer, powered, the space in Spear used for seeker and warhead is replaced by an EW package from Leonardo based on Britecloud tech and much more fuel....apparently 3 x Spear range...
SpearGlide - Spear with no propulsion, with the space freed up occupied by a larger warhead, direct SDBII competitor with similar range (70nm, 111km)
LPS - Land Precision Strike - was a CAMM/Brimstone style mashup with soft launch potential, now an elongated (and slightly 'fattened', see the taper where the guidance section is) Spear with rocket booster for hot launch from M270, roughly twice the length of Spear so a large increase in internal volume for fuel and warhead, utilising the same guidance package and, presumably, the same engine....could easily have an air launched application as a 'Spear-ER'. Without booster you could fit 2 in each F-35 bay. Assuming, reasonably I think, a SpearGlide warhead and twice the space for fuel it could have a range of 200nm+ from air launch.
MRUSW - Medium Range Utility Strike Weapon - Basically SpearGlide without the MMW seeker to reduce cost further. GPS/INS guidance perhaps with SAL. Will also have hard target penetration capabilities, which implies a penetration shroud on the warhead. A direct SDBI competitor. Designed to be an ultra cheap (well...far cheaper at least, but its all relative) weapon for mass. I've called this SpearSimple or Value Engineered Spear before...

They're also talking about spiral developments....which usually means software upgrades etc, but may mean more 'variants' using the Spear mold line, weight and CoG for easy integration. Given its size though there are limitations on what more you could do with it, that they're not planning on doing already....a 'SpearRecon' would make sense as a BDA tool or attritable recon asset for a high threat area using an E/O sensor (you could essentially use Spear-EW and swap the jamming payload for optics), or a 'SpearLoiter' with an ducted IC engine like the IAI Windbreaker munition that recently broke cover...beyond that I'm stumped as submunitions in particular are no longer a thing for the UK...(and it doesn't really have the volume to make it worthwhile). EDIT:As pointed out by @TomS complex submunitions, like the SMaRT or BONUS AT 'skeets' are in use by the UK.

SpearGlide and MRUSW are not designed to replace PWIV.

It's not clear if LPS will now be launchable by iLauncher given that it is now hot launch...too long for Boxer launch as well, and Naval VL is now not possible unless adapted to Sylver or Mk.41 (admittedly in the latter you could quadpack it). No launching from Sea Ceptor VL farms.
 
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NMaude said:
In addition to a SPEAR 3 glide version what about a cheaper, shorter range SPEAR 3 where the TJ-150 turbojet and fuel tanks are replaced by a solid rocket-motor? While it wouldn't have as long a range it would be substantially cheaper and be able to be ground-launched without needing a launch-booster.
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It would be so close to Brimstone in capability that it wouldn't make sense in financial terms to do...at that point it would make more sense to use the money to develop the original LPS design of a CAMM style body (though 178mm rather than 166mm) with Brimstone or E/O seeker head. The benefits to that are you get 80km range...but it would be soft launchable so could be used on Land AND Sea Ceptor systems...which would give it significant export potential...
 
timmymagic said:
There are 5 Spear 'variants' that have been mentioned/seen. (Not Spear 3....thats the MoD programme name, we don't call FCASW Spear 5 for example)

Spear
Spear-EW
SpearGlide
LPS - Land Precision Strike,
MRUSW -
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Plus Sea Spear (quad-packed in a Mk 41 or EXLs VLS cell as a counter-FIAC-swarm capability, though that seems to have been a Brimstone variant rather than Spear, with MBDA actually referring to it as Brimstone Sea Spear in some of their stuff seemingly aimed at the Poles.
 

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