Spanish/Egyptian HA-300 supersonic fighter project

[overscan (PaulMM)]

If you are interested:

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[hesham]

Thank you my dear Paul.

 

[Kuno]

Cool stuff!
I had the chance to see the second prototype of the HA 300 last year in Cairo
The first prototype was on display for many years in Oberschleissheim "Flugwerft" but has been moved to Manching "Stiftung Messerschmitt" in 2015 and is not on display any more since...

 

[hesham]

Thank you dear Kuno.

 

[elmayerle]

Hi,


the HA-300 from L + K.

I can't prove it, but this drawing resembles the pictures I've seen of the third HA-300 prototype which had not finished construction when the program was cancelled. From what I've read, it had variable inlets and a larger aft end to accommodate an afterburner. I'm looking to modify one A&A kit to this configuration.

 

[hesham]

It will be nice my dear Elmayerle,

but sorry,even in my country,the Info is very rare about it,specially the last one you
mentioned.

 

[walter]

Dear Hesham
Member Kuno wrote that he visited the second prototype HA-300 in Cairo. I was under the impression that only the first prototype (in Munich) had survived?
Also surprised to read that the third prototype (Brandner E-300 enginene) could have flown once?
Can you enlighten me?
Brgds. Walter

 

[hesham]

but sorry,even in my country,the Info is very rare about it,specially the last one you
mentioned.

As you know my dear Walter,the details are not available here,but I will check.

 

[Kuno]

Colleagues - whilst my original article about the air force museum in Cairo was published in "Kassiker der Luftfahrt", there is also a "spin off" in "Papyrus".... if you scroll down a bit you see a photo of the Ha-300: http://papyrus-magazin.de/geschichte/das-aegyptische-museum-der-luftwaffe/

 

[walter]

Thank you Kuno for clearing up the question of a second surviving HA-300
Regards, Walter

 

[elmayerle]

The March, 1999 issue of Air Pictorial has a good article on this subject, entitled "Messerschmitt's Last Fighter", which includes a picture of the Number 3 prototype under construction, clearly showing its variable intakes, and states that the third prototype, with E300 engine, conducted taxi tests but never flew.

 

[hesham]

From L+K 9/1967.

 

[Lascaris]

Question. Was the production version going to have a radar? Have seen no mention to electronics if any...

 

[TomS]

Question. Was the production version going to have a radar? Have seen no mention to electronics if any...

One of the drawings on page 1 mentions radar.

 

[elmayerle]

Picked up a Russian magazine on Ebay that had an article on the HA-300, the drawings also included the third prototype with variable inlets and enlarged aft end for an afterburner.. It would take some work, but sratchbuilding the changes doesn't look too difficult (thinking that a 1/144 Starfighter should provide reasonably correct variable inlets for 1/72).

 

[Kuno]

"From Nile Eagle to Nassers Folly"

There is a very nice and comprehensive article about the HA 300 in issue No. 27 of "The Aviation Historian"

 

[hesham]

Hi,

https://archive.aviationweek.com/image/spread/19660509/14/2

 

[hesham]

From; Klassiker der Luftfahrt 2018-04,

and the picture was in our Museum.

 

[Toryu]

Second prototipe or model?

 

[galgot]

Second prototipe or model?

Wow,
According to this scale plan :

(from this page: https://igor113.livejournal.com/296350.html)
That would be the V3 (or HA-300-003). See inlets with half-cone and reheat nozzle.




(sorry can't remember where I got these picts)

 

[blackkite]

Oh air intake shock cone and A/B!!

 

[apparition13]

That's the one that had the Brandner E-300 engine installed in it. It supposedly flew once.

This is actually a project I find especially frustrating. The HA-300 and HF-24 Marut, with the E-300 engine, should have outperformed the MiG 21. I suspect both Egypt and India would have been better served by coproducing both aircraft and the engine.

Or it could just be I want to know what both aircraft were really capable of with an engine with the power they were designed for.

 

[blackkite]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKuQtHUYoA8

HA-300 Helwan Aircraft Egypt, The Interceptor Aircraft that Egypt built in The 1960's

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[blackkite]

صوره تحتاج الى تفسيير ؟؟؟

تحتاج لتحليل

defense-arab.com

 

[blackkite]

Helwan HA-300 in 1/72 scale

building 1/72 Helwan HA-300

designer.home.xs4all.nl

Index of /image/idop/fighter/ha300

Index of /hangar/howard_mason5/ha-300/images

 

[Grey Havoc]

Hispano Aviación HA-23P: Autarchy wet dream.

The full-scale glider model of the HA-300 took its maiden flight 62 years ago. This little delta wing aircraft was designed at Hispano Aviación by a group of Spanish engineers with the collaboratio…

elpoderdelasgalaxias.wordpress.com

 

[Kuno]

From; Klassiker der Luftfahrt 2018-04,

and the picture was in our Museum.

Hi Hesham - after I wrote my article for "Klassiker der Luftfahrt" I read somewhere in the internet, that even the third prototype of the HA 300 wold still exist in Egypt. It was definitely not on display in the air force museum in Cairo in 2018 but as per your photo it must have been kept somewhere else.

Also interesting is the fact, that on the website of the "Messerschmitt Stiftung" the HA 300 which they had moved from the display in Oberschleissheim several years ago seems still not be mentioned: https://www.flugmuseum-messerschmitt.de/museum/messerschmitt_foundation/index.html (ok, the website seems not be one of those which gets frequent updates...)

 

[Archibald]

Second prototipe or model?

Wow,
According to this scale plan :
View attachment 627699
(from this page: https://igor113.livejournal.com/296350.html)
That would be the V3 (or HA-300-003). See inlets with half-cone and reheat nozzle.

View attachment 627700
View attachment 627701
View attachment 627702
(sorry can't remember where I got these picts)

If that bird had tangled with Israeli Mirages and Neshers... confusion and friendly fire might have been major issues.

How do you say "baby Mirage" in Egyptian ?

Can't help thinking of a Mirage II (not III !) done right.

Note that the Mirage did wonders with an engine of limited thrust (compared to J79 and Avon).

 

[dan_inbox]

If that bird had tangled with Israeli Mirages and Neshers... confusion and friendly fire might have been major issues.

The HA-300 is definitely less of a problem than the Libyan Mirage 5s transfered to Egypt.
And the Heyl Avir handled them without problem. Just a little paint.

 

[hesham]

صوره تحتاج الى تفسيير ؟؟؟

تحتاج لتحليل

defense-arab.com

Its expected variants;

E 300
Civil single-shaft augmented turbojet. Designed and
developed at Helwan by German engineers as replacement for
Rolls-Royce Orpheus in Helwan HA-300 supersonic fighter. Has
been test flown in Antonov An-12 and Hindustan HF-24 Marut.
Civil versions of E 300 are also proposed.
Applications Helwan HA-300, 1X E 300-A (7,2751b basic and
10,5801b with afterburning).

(E 300-A)
Nine-stage compressor, can-annular combustor with ten
primary heads and annular rear section, two-stage turbine. Afterburner
with continuously variable convergent nozzle. Take-off
7,2751b basic and 10,5801b with afterburner; mass flow 1181b/sec;
pressure ratio 6:1; length 169.3in; diameter 33in; weight 1,8961b.

E 300 Civil single-shaft turbojet. Commercial counterpart to
military E 300 proposed for development. Basic versions are the
6,6151b E 300-C1 and 7,4951b E 300-C2 growth version. Higher
r.p.m., higher mass flow derivatives are the 8,5101b E 300-PX and
9,2801b E 300-PX/W with water-mefhanol injection.


engines

EGAO/
Messerschmitt Project 206 powered by
three E 300C-ls is sole
application.

(E 300C-1)
Similar configuration to E 300-A
without afterburner
.
Take-off 6,6151b;
mass flow 1181b/sec;
pressure ratio 6:1;
length 98.4in;
diameter 33in;
weight 1,6311b.

E 300 Civil
free-turbine aft-fan turbofan.
Projected turbofan
variant of E 300-C2 turbojet.

(E 300-AF)
Similar configuration to E 300-C1 but with addition
of single-stage free-turbine driving single-stage aft-fan.

Take-Off 10,1401b; b.p.r. 1.5:1;
mass flow (overall) 2941b/sec;
length 118.lin;
diameter 47.2in;
weight 1,8741b

anther variants

further E-300 versions were planned at the end of the 1960s:

· E-300C
for civil purpose without afterburner,
thrust 3,000 to 3,200 kp,
length 2,500 mm,
diameter 840 mm,
weight 740 kg,
specific comsumption 0.86 to 0.87 kg/kp.h
·
E-300AF with an rear fan (

, thrust 4,600 kp,
length 3,000 mm,
diameter 1,200 mm,
specific comsumption 0.65 kg/kp.h
·
E-300PX
with 60 % more air throughput/quantity (60 kg/sec),
length 2,500 mm,
diameter 840 mm,
weight 760 kg,
specific comsumption 0.86 kg/kp.h
·
E-300PX/W –
version with water with methanol injection,

 

[hesham]

From; Klassiker der Luftfahrt 2018-04,

and the picture was in our Museum.

Hi Hesham - after I wrote my article for "Klassiker der Luftfahrt" I read somewhere in the internet, that even the third prototype of the HA 300 wold still exist in Egypt. It was definitely not on display in the air force museum in Cairo in 2018 but as per your photo it must have been kept somewhere else.

Also interesting is the fact, that on the website of the "Messerschmitt Stiftung" the HA 300 which they had moved from the display in Oberschleissheim several years ago seems still not be mentioned: https://www.flugmuseum-messerschmitt.de/museum/messerschmitt_foundation/index.html (ok, the website seems not be one of those which gets frequent updates...)

Dear Kuno,

as I know,we built 4 prototypes,first one was given award to Germany,second and third in
our Museum as I think,the fourth was for testing without engine.

 

[Kuno]

4? I was only aware of three... or, maybe one was only a cell for testing? At least when I was in the museum in 2018, there was ony a single HA 300 on display.

 

[hesham]

صوره تحتاج الى تفسيير ؟؟؟

تحتاج لتحليل

defense-arab.com

Translation;

The two are Helwan models, but the first is the old model and the second is a modified model. It is noted through the engine slots by expanding and increasing the engine slots to increase the thrust, I think. It is also noted that the old model is tilted back and the new is level, and also the wing has blades of rise and fall to control flight in The old one does not exist, and here is a question that poses itself. The reason for this development is something really confusing

 

[hesham]

From, Antonov AN-12 Cub.

 

[GUNDAM123dx]

Graph from Ebert/Kaiser/Peters

Does "V bohn" mean rate of climb or something?


----Updated:
Well I've done this and forgot to update it here. That's just the speed of sound at 15k metres.

 

[Arjen]

@GUNDAM123dx
It might read V bahn - Bahngeschwindigkeit - speed along a trajectory? I am not a native German speaker, one of the German/Austrian/Swiss engineers here might know better.

 

[GUNDAM123dx]

@GUNDAM123dx
It might read V bahn - Bahngeschwindigkeit - speed along a trajectory? I am not a native German speaker, one of the German/Austrian/Swiss engineers here might know better.

Well I've done this and forgot to update it here. That's just the speed of sound at 15k metres.

 

[Ivan Culjak]

Gentlemen,
This my first post here. Here is a rather detailed report on the HA-300 and its Indian connection

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/1960s/Kapil-HA300.html

Sorry for repeating some parts of the article, but I could not resist! Here is what Captain Kapila Bhargava, IAF test pilot, said to Willy Messerschmitt after a successful first flight, Messerschmitt was very much relieved, and Kapil asked why
"He said that while that was all very well, many of his prototypes had crashed on the first or an early flight. I lightly replied that he should have listened more to his test pilots and not threatened to send them off to the Russian Front if they disagreed with him. He just smiled"
Actually cpt Kapila had an unique opportunity to work with W. Messerschmitt and Kurt Tank. https://marutfans.wordpress.com/201...ent-of-the-hf-24-gp-capt-kapil-bhargava-retd/

"Tank recited to me how he obtained the very hard to get permission to construct the new aircraft. Due to all round shortage of material, he was not being allowed to make even one prototype of what eventually became the Fw 190."
It seems that there is a lot about Captain Bhargava on the web, he was a man who had stamina, a true pilot!

 

[Gaafar]

aviation week and space technology article. don't think they're talking about the HA-300 as they mention it later in the article

 

[kocovgoce]

Yes