SpaceX (general discussion)

[Flyaway]

SpaceX Prototype moved to launch pad

[quote author=The Brownsville Herald]SpaceX spokesman James Gleeson said in an email that the Starship prototype was moved to the launch pad in preparation for testing, though the public won’t be able to see the first tests.

“SpaceX will conduct checkouts of the newly installed ground systems and perform a short static fire test in the days ahead,” he said. “Although the prototype is designed to perform sub-orbital flights, or hops, powered by the SpaceX Raptor engine, the vehicle will be tethered during initial testing and hops will not be visible from offsite. SpaceX will establish a safety zone perimeter in coordination with local enforcement and signage will be in place to alert the community prior to the testing.”[/quote]

 

[Flyaway]

Tanking Test of the BFH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqX9HXYMXrU

The first Raptor engine arrived on site today as well.

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47070.msg1921179#msg1921179

 

[fredymac]

Picture from Musk.

 

[sferrin]

It looks like it's buried in the ground. Aren't there any feet on the end of the landing legs? ???

 

[Flyaway]

https://twitter.com/SpacePadreIsle/status/1106533231804010497

Raptor just pulled up at Hopper

 

[sferrin]

That's more like it. That picture in post #1562 looked familiar (from some time ago).

 

[Flyaway]

The thing people have found curious is why the top half of the Hopper, if that’s what it is that they appear to be building at the moment looks so different to the first one, it looks a lot taller for a start and doesn’t appear to taper as much.

 

[Flyaway]

https://twitter.com/austinbarnard45/status/1106646298445467649

The hopper has multiple tubings and pipes connected to it, while underneath everything is being prepared for the installation of the raptor engine(sitting on the flat bed with a tarp). Meanwhile the white and grey tanks are being fueled up.

 

[Flyaway]

Installed Raptor on the Hopper. Appears to be a side engine of the proposed three.

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47120.msg1923406#msg1923406

Engine now moved to the centre, there has been speculation that they are doing fit checks before fitting the other Raptors.

 

[sferrin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7zia2HqOOc

 

[Dragon029]

Another deluge of Starship & Starhopper news:

What you see in these images:

Is not part of the Starhopper:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1107373237208416256?s=20

We decided to skip building a new nosecone for Hopper. Don’t need it. What you see being built is the orbital Starship vehicle.

And no he doesn't mean an intermediate developmental vehicle:
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1107374051410886656

Elon Musk:

Anner J. Bonilla
After hopper planning on going straight to superheavy full size? Or intermediate development vehicle is planned?

Full size

Also, the Starhopper is expected to conduct a static fire and possibly a very short (probably ~1 second, ~1 foot) hop this week:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1107366178471608321

Elon Musk

Viv
Saw this on Reddit, so the first hops are happening next week?

Hopefully. Always many issues integrating engine & stage. First hops will lift off, but only barely.

As for how that'll happen with just 1 Raptor engine delivered to Boca Chica:

Elon Musk

Austin Barnard
Do y’all think #SpaceX will attempt some sort of test, With only one raptor or wait for the other two to arrive. It’s honestly been boggling my mind.

First (really short) hops with one engine. Suborbital flights with three.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1107365369168056320?s=19

And on top of all of that, it seems like Starship will actually still use heatshield tiles:
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1107378575924035584 [video of the tiles being tested - they apparently passed a full duration simulated re-entry test]

As for what happened to the sweating Starship idea:

Elon Musk

Some1
I thought you were going with transpiration cooling so you wouldn't have to replace them after each flight. Will this system be the backup for the transpiration cooling, something in addition to the transpiration cooling, or a replacement to it.

Transpiration cooling will be added wherever we see erosion of the shield. Starship needs to be ready to fly again immediately after landing. Zero refurbishment.

According to Elon, the tiles will be used on the windward side (belly) with transpiration cooling used as mentioned above. It's my understanding that PICA-X operates primarily via ablation, which would therefore require refurbishment at some stage, but perhaps they're going with a thermal soak heat shield instead (and relying on the conductivity and thermal durability of steel to handle any thermal transfer or leaking - the video above shows the panels attached to a steel plate).

 

[Flyaway]

To my mind any kind of refurbishment would entirely defeat the point of Starship.

 

[sferrin]

To my mind any kind of refurbishment would entirely defeat the point of Starship.

Why?

 

[sferrin]

Is not part of the Starhopper:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1107373237208416256?s=20

We decided to skip building a new nosecone for Hopper. Don’t need it. What you see being built is the orbital Starship vehicle.

And no he doesn't mean an intermediate developmental vehicle:
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1107374051410886656

Elon Musk:

Anner J. Bonilla
After hopper planning on going straight to superheavy full size? Or intermediate development vehicle is planned?

Full size

[TinFoilHatMode] Hmmm almost makes you wonder if Elon knows something. . . [/TinFoilHatMode]

 

[Dragon029]

To my mind any kind of refurbishment would entirely defeat the point of Starship.

Why?

I would disagree that *any* kind of refurbishment defeats the point of Starship (I think something like a refurbishment after 10+ interplanetary re-entries would be fine), but Starship is meant to provide ridiculously low $ per mass payload capacity via full reusability (Elon's said he thinks it can very feasibly be cheaper per launch (not just per kg) than a Falcon 9, despite having vastly more payload capacity), so any form of refurbishment (other than something involved in a service life extension program after something like 100 re-entries) will increase costs, potentially to the point where it's not as attractive for launching non-ride-sharing satellites as Falcon 9.

 

[sferrin]

To my mind any kind of refurbishment would entirely defeat the point of Starship.

Why?

I would disagree that *any* kind of refurbishment defeats the point of Starship (I think something like a refurbishment after 10+ interplanetary re-entries would be fine), but Starship is meant to provide ridiculously low $ per mass payload capacity via full reusability (Elon's said he thinks it can very feasibly be cheaper per launch (not just per kg) than a Falcon 9, despite having vastly more payload capacity), so any form of refurbishment (other than something involved in a service life extension program after something like 100 re-entries) will increase costs, potentially to the point where it's not as attractive for launching non-ride-sharing satellites as Falcon 9.

I'd agree. I just thought it a bit ridiculous to suggest that, if it required ANY refurbishment, they should cancel the program. Obviously, if it required a ton of work between flights, it's going to increase costs to the point that the effort wouldn't be worth it. (See Space Shuttle.)

 

[Flyaway]

Starhopper first flight as early as this week; Starship/Superheavy updates

Testing of SpaceX’s Starhopper suborbital vehicle in Boca Chica, Texas, is ramping up, with Raptor engine installation and Boca Chica Village residents receiving warning of imminent, a few feet off the ground hop tests to come as early as this week.

Meanwhile, Elon Musk, has presented new information on the overall Starship/Super Heavy design, including Starship’s heat shield and the fact that SpaceX is seeking regulatory approval to launch and build the massive interplanetary transport space vehicle in both Texas and “Cape Kennedy”, Florida.

 

[Flyaway]

SpaceX goes all-in on steel Starship, scraps expensive carbon fiber BFR tooling

In a wholly unforeseen turn of events, SpaceX has taken the extraordinary step of permanently scrapping both its Port of Los Angeles-based BFR development tent and what seem to be the majority of what it contained, irreparably destroying custom-built tooling meant to support the fabrication of carbon composite BFR spaceships and boosters.

 

[Archibald]

SpaceX goes all-in on steel Starship, scraps expensive carbon fiber BFR tooling

In a wholly unforeseen turn of events, SpaceX has taken the extraordinary step of permanently scrapping both its Port of Los Angeles-based BFR development tent and what seem to be the majority of what it contained, irreparably destroying custom-built tooling meant to support the fabrication of carbon composite BFR spaceships and boosters.

what.a.waste. Unbelievable. Well, its Musk dollars, not NASA / taxpayer, and hopefully all the scrapped things will be recycled. But still. What a waste.

 

[Grey Havoc]

It does seem rather unwise.

 

[sferrin]

SpaceX goes all-in on steel Starship, scraps expensive carbon fiber BFR tooling

In a wholly unforeseen turn of events, SpaceX has taken the extraordinary step of permanently scrapping both its Port of Los Angeles-based BFR development tent and what seem to be the majority of what it contained, irreparably destroying custom-built tooling meant to support the fabrication of carbon composite BFR spaceships and boosters.

what.a.waste. Unbelievable. Well, its Musk dollars, not NASA / taxpayer, and hopefully all the scrapped things will be recycled. But still. What a waste.

Why keep it if you're not going to use it?

 

[Archibald]

I am questioning the immense waste of metal manpower hours and dollars . You can't deny it is kind of huge. I have no doubt it will be recycled but that's pretty... radical. Musk could have tried to do something useful with it I mean, just to recoup the big money loss.
Well dare I say with all the poverty in the world that kind of billionaire waste of dollars is a bit disgusting. And I say that as a space nerd since the craddle.

 

[sferrin]

Well dare I say with all the poverty in the world that kind of billionaire waste of dollars is a bit disgusting.

You're joking, right?

 

[merriman]

I am questioning the immense waste of metal manpower hours and dollars . You can't deny it is kind of huge. I have no doubt it will be recycled but that's pretty... radical. Musk could have tried to do something useful with it I mean, just to recoup the big money loss.
Well dare I say with all the poverty in the world that kind of billionaire waste of dollars is a bit disgusting. And I say that as a space nerd since the craddle.

The poor will never take us to Mars. Guy's like Musk, Branson, and Bezos will.

There are those with no means. There are hard-smart workers who have secured for themselves means. One group has nothing to do -- or is obligated -- to the other.

Lead, follow or get out of the way. That fresh, shiny trash heap near the piers in LA belong to Musk. He'll do with it as he pleases. And that's just fine with me.

You want to moan over waste!? I give you, ladies and gentlemen, the SLS; and the current hanger-queen, the Webb telescope. Musk knows how to use my tax money, NASA forgot how to husband my tax money. The worlds poor have nothing to contribute or say about our efforts to get off this dirt-ball.

Secure from rant.

David

 

[NUSNA_Moebius]

Musk could have tried to do something useful with it I mean, just to recoup the big money loss.

Like what? It was custom tooling for BFR before it's complete paradigm shift in design. It's now useless thanks to the switch to stainless steel and size changes in the vehicle and booster.

 

[Flyaway]

I am questioning the immense waste of metal manpower hours and dollars . You can't deny it is kind of huge. I have no doubt it will be recycled but that's pretty... radical. Musk could have tried to do something useful with it I mean, just to recoup the big money loss.
Well dare I say with all the poverty in the world that kind of billionaire waste of dollars is a bit disgusting. And I say that as a space nerd since the craddle.

The poor will never take us to Mars. Guy's like Musk, Branson, and Bezos will.

There are those with no means. There are hard-smart workers who have secured for themselves means. One group has nothing to do -- or is obligated -- to the other.

Lead, follow or get out of the way. That fresh, shiny trash heap near the piers in LA belong to Musk. He'll do with it as he pleases. And that's just fine with me.

You want to moan over waste!? I give you, ladies and gentlemen, the SLS; and the current hanger-queen, the Webb telescope. Musk knows how to use my tax money, NASA forgot how to husband my tax money. The worlds poor have nothing to contribute or say about our efforts to get off this dirt-ball.

Secure from rant.

David

This just makes you sound like a desperate fanboy trying to justify this decision on behalf of the company.

 

[Dragon029]

To be fair, it's pretty hard to fault someone for being a SpaceX fanboy; Falcon 9 has changed the industry, Dragon and Falcon Heavy have done well / are bringing some useful options to the industry, and Starship, if it works even close to how they've planned, will be revolutionary.

 

[icyplanetnhc (Steve)]

It's a bold move, to be sure. There are some sound engineering reasons for abandoning composites, but one does feel that perhaps there may have been a way to repurpose the tooling rather than outright destroying it, given its cost.

 

[sferrin]

This just makes you sound like a desperate fanboy trying to justify this decision on behalf of the company.

Oh please. It's Musk's money to do with as he pleases. The End.

 

[sferrin]

It's a bold move, to be sure. There are some sound engineering reasons for abandoning composites, but one does feel that perhaps there may have been a way to repurpose the tooling rather than outright destroying it, given its cost.

Sure, he could have dubbed it, "Modern Art" and sold it to stupid people for billions. Tooling gets thrown away all the time. Why? Because tooling is built for a specific purpose (because, you know, it NEEDS to be). You can't just take tooling used to make yachts and start making trains with it.

 

[merriman]

I am questioning the immense waste of metal manpower hours and dollars . You can't deny it is kind of huge. I have no doubt it will be recycled but that's pretty... radical. Musk could have tried to do something useful with it I mean, just to recoup the big money loss.
Well dare I say with all the poverty in the world that kind of billionaire waste of dollars is a bit disgusting. And I say that as a space nerd since the craddle.

The poor will never take us to Mars. Guy's like Musk, Branson, and Bezos will.

There are those with no means. There are hard-smart workers who have secured for themselves means. One group has nothing to do -- or is obligated -- to the other.

Lead, follow or get out of the way. That fresh, shiny trash heap near the piers in LA belong to Musk. He'll do with it as he pleases. And that's just fine with me.

You want to moan over waste!? I give you, ladies and gentlemen, the SLS; and the current hanger-queen, the Webb telescope. Musk knows how to use my tax money, NASA forgot how to husband my tax money. The worlds poor have nothing to contribute or say about our efforts to get off this dirt-ball.

Secure from rant.

David

This just makes you sound like a desperate fanboy trying to justify this decision on behalf of the company.

Guilty as charged.

David

 

[galgot]

...The worlds poor have nothing to contribute or say about our efforts to get off this dirt-ball.

Secure from rant.

David

Decency talking ?…
There certainly are some few small components made by factories workers in certains countries and paid like sh..t, that are incorporated in Mr.Musk Beautiful rockets (and I which him luck btw…).
So, Well… they contribute a bit. And certainly more than you, unless you’re part of SpaceX, boasting about "our efforts", as SpaceX is a private venture and you never paid a dime for it to happend. But you're paying taxes for NASA obviously ... c'est savoureux...
But yeah… they are just the poor other monkeys that were stupid enough not to be born in a rich family , + they are not even US… So they should ShutUp.

Thanks for reminding me some peoples are so poor, all they have is their money.

 

[sferrin]

...The worlds poor have nothing to contribute or say about our efforts to get off this dirt-ball.

Secure from rant.

David

Decency talking ?…

Decency would suggest a man's possessions are his own to do with as he pleases. Surely you wouldn't want somebody coming into your home and telling you you're a dirtbag for having the temerity to pursue your passions with resources you acquired? There are starving people in Africa after all.

 

[galgot]

...The worlds poor have nothing to contribute or say about our efforts to get off this dirt-ball.

Secure from rant.

David

Decency talking ?…

Decency would suggest a man's possessions are his own to do with as he pleases. Surely you wouldn't want somebody coming into your house and telling you you're a dirtbag for having the temerity to pursue your passions with resources you acquired? There are starving people in Africa after all.

never disagreed with that, Mr.Musk do as he please with his stuff.
But that kind of contemptuous sentences for poor peoples makes me want to throw up...

 

[sferrin]

...The worlds poor have nothing to contribute or say about our efforts to get off this dirt-ball.

Secure from rant.

David

Decency talking ?…

Decency would suggest a man's possessions are his own to do with as he pleases. Surely you wouldn't want somebody coming into your house and telling you you're a dirtbag for having the temerity to pursue your passions with resources you acquired? There are starving people in Africa after all.

never disagreed with that, Mr.Musk do as he please with his stuff.
But that kind of contemptuous sentences for poor peoples makes me want to throw up...

Poor people have it rough.

 

[Machdiamond]

I am questioning the immense waste of metal manpower hours and dollars . You can't deny it is kind of huge. I have no doubt it will be recycled but that's pretty... radical. Musk could have tried to do something useful with it I mean, just to recoup the big money loss.
Well dare I say with all the poverty in the world that kind of billionaire waste of dollars is a bit disgusting. And I say that as a space nerd since the craddle.

In the aerospace prototyping trial-and-error environment, piles of scrap metal have always been the norm (I speak from experience). What is different about SpaceX is that the company receives an incredible amount of scrutiny. No one would have every blinked an eye if that picture was from a Boeing or Lockheed scrapyard.

I also deny the waste is "kind if huge". We are talking about a few hundred thousand dollars here, not hundreds of millions.

SpaceX is saving US taxpayers billions of dollars after breaking the space industry cartel into pieces. If you care about waste of dollars, your disgust is totally misplaced.

 

[sferrin]

I am questioning the immense waste of metal manpower hours and dollars . You can't deny it is kind of huge. I have no doubt it will be recycled but that's pretty... radical. Musk could have tried to do something useful with it I mean, just to recoup the big money loss.
Well dare I say with all the poverty in the world that kind of billionaire waste of dollars is a bit disgusting. And I say that as a space nerd since the craddle.

In the aerospace prototyping trial-and-error environment, piles of scrap metal have always been the norm (I speak from experience). What is different about SpaceX is that the company receives an incredible amount of scrutiny. No one would have every blinked an eye if that picture was from a Boeing or Lockheed scrapyard.

I also deny the waste is "kind if huge". We are talking about a few hundred thousand dollars here, not hundreds of millions.

SpaceX is saving US taxpayers billions of dollars after breaking the space industry cartel into pieces. If you care about waste of dollars, your disgust is totally misplaced.

Just look at how much NASA has spent on heavy lift over the past 14 years. And for what? What could SpaceX have accomplished with all that dough?

 

[antigravite]

Hi,

In case you wanna see live test of Boca Chica launch site Starship / Hopper + Raptor demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7zia2HqOOc

A.

 

[sferrin]

And idea what time they're shooting for?

 

[_Del_]

What does the "waste"-crowd think the specialized-tooling to produce things they no longer plan on producing is going to (or should) be used for exactly?