SpaceX Dragon spacecraft for low cost trips to the Moon.

[XP67_Moonbat]

Yeah quit wasting space on our blog!

 

[RGClark]

Argues the SLS as early as 2017 can be used to launch manned lunar lander missions:

SLS for Return to the Moon by the 50th Anniversary of Apollo 11.
http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2012/10/sls-for-return-to-moon-by-50th.html

Again, what did this have to do with Spacex?

You are just spamming this forum by providing a linking to your blog about an unrelated topic. Not to mention that you still don't know what you are talking about and you are wrong in your blog.

Moved the discussion to its own topic A Return to the Moon by the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary

Bob Clark

 

[RGClark]

Again, what did this have to do with Spacex?

You are just spamming this forum by providing a linking to your blog about an unrelated topic. Not to mention that you still don't know what you are talking about and you are wrong in your blog.

What do you think of the argument that if the 5-segment SRB's really do have the predicted performance increase over the usual 4-segment ones then the payload capability of the SLS first launch in 2017 will likely be 90+ mT?

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14409.msg163031.html#msg163031


Bob Clark

 

[quellish]

What do you think of the argument that if the 5-segment SRB's really do have the predicted performance increase over the usual 4-segment ones then the payload capability of the SLS first launch in 2017 will likely be 90+ mT?

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14409.msg163031.html#msg163031


Bob Clark

I am not sure what 5-segment SRBs has to do with SpaceX.

 

[Archibald]

ASSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ !!!

 

[RGClark]

What do you think of the argument that if the 5-segment SRB's really do have the predicted performance increase over the usual 4-segment ones then the payload capability of the SLS first launch in 2017 will likely be 90+ mT?

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14409.msg163031.html#msg163031


Bob Clark

I am not sure what 5-segment SRBs has to do with SpaceX.

OK, I'll move the question to the A Return to the Moon by the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary thread.


Bob Clark

 

[RGClark]

Lead scientist Tony Colaprete says it can probably be ready by 2014:

Mining on the moon: gold, fuel, and Canada's possible role in a new space race.
Peter Rakobowchuk, Sunday, February 26, 2012 7:30 AM

The lead scientist on NASA's RESOLVE drilling project, Tony Colaprete, was also the principal investigator for LCROSS, the 2009 lunar probe that found a significant amount of water ice on the moon.
Colaprete says the next step is to find the veins of water on the moon and map out its distribution. That's where RESOLVE would go to work, drilling for samples and analyzing their components.
He says the equipment will be ready to be flown to the moon at the end of 2014. He adds that people are already interested in flying it, both commercially and within NASA.
One missing piece is a rocket to get RESOLVE to the lunar surface.
The United States is now focusing its attention on developing a heavy-lifting rocket known as the SLS, which will replace the shuttle program, but Colaprete says it isn't due to launch until 2017. The SLS, or Space Launch System, is a heavy-launch vehicle being designed by NASA and is expected to be the means of transportation for the RESOLVE payload.
That means the soonest there could be a rover driving around on the moon with RESOLVE is likely around the end of the decade, if all goes well with SLS."

http://www.globaltoronto.com/money/mining+on+the+moon+gold+fuel+and+canadas+possible+role+in+a+new+space+race/6442588944/story.html

I don't know why he says you need a heavy lift rocket to get it to the Moon though. The RESOLVE instrument package and the Scarab rover to carry it are supposed to weigh less than 400 kg. We already have rockets capable of landing that on the Moon.


Bob Clark

Great news here:

SPACE
NASA Plans to Make Water on the Moon.
APR 12, 2013 07:50 PM ET // BY IRENE KLOTZ

NASA is developing a lunar rover to find and analyze water and other materials trapped in deep freezes at the moon’s poles and to demonstrate how water can be made on site.
Slated to fly in November 2017, the mission, called Regolith and Environment Science and Oxygen and Lunar Volatile Extraction (RESOLVE), will have a week to accomplish its goals.
To stay within a tight $250 million budget cap -- including the rocket ride to the moon -- project managers are planning to use solar energy to power the rover’s systems and science instruments. However, sunlight on the places where water and other volatiles may be trapped only occurs for a few days at a time.
http://news.discovery.com/space/making-water-on-the-moon-130412.htm

This mission builds on the LCROSS mission. I consider LCROSS to be one of the most successful planetary missions ever developed since it returned such profoundly important results at such low cost. The cost/benefit ratio was tremendous. (<i>As a mathematician I suppose I should express that as the benefit/cost ratio was tremendous. </i>) I hope NASA selects the same award-winning managers as for the LCROSS mission.
I do have a question about the mission. The article describes it will have a limited lifetime because of the limited sunlight at the location it will visit. But I recall there were locations close to some shadowed craters that were nearly continually bathed in sunlight. Could these locations be used to get a longer mission?


Bob Clark

 

[Hobbes]

I do have a question about the mission. The article describes it will have a limited lifetime because of the limited sunlight at the location it will visit. But I recall there were locations close to some shadowed craters that were nearly continually bathed in sunlight. Could these locations be used to get a longer mission?

For this mission, "close" has to be defined as "right on top of". Sure, you could put solar cells at the rim of a crater and a drill/sampling mission at the bottom, but then you'd have a vastly more complex mission than this single lander.

 

[Byeman]

1. I consider LCROSS to be one of the most successful planetary missions ever developed since it returned such profoundly important results at such low cost.

2. The cost/benefit ratio was tremendous. (As a mathematician I suppose I should express that as the benefit/cost ratio was tremendous. )

3. I hope NASA selects the same award-winning managers as for the LCROSS mission.

1. Unsubstantiated. Also, it did not return that much data
2. It got a free launch.
3. No, they did not do anything special. The free ride is what was the key.

Again, this has nothing to do with Spacex

 

[blackstar]

1. I consider LCROSS to be one of the most successful planetary missions ever developed since it returned such profoundly important results at such low cost.

2. The cost/benefit ratio was tremendous. (As a mathematician I suppose I should express that as the benefit/cost ratio was tremendous. )

3. I hope NASA selects the same award-winning managers as for the LCROSS mission.

1. Unsubstantiated. Also, it did not return that much data
2. It got a free launch.
3. No, they did not do anything special. The free ride is what was the key.

Again, this has nothing to do with Spacex

He's not worth taking seriously. The #1 on the list easily demonstrates that.

 

[RGClark]

1. I consider LCROSS to be one of the most successful planetary missions ever developed since it returned such profoundly important results at such low cost.
2. The cost/benefit ratio was tremendous. (As a mathematician I suppose I should express that as the benefit/cost ratio was tremendous. )
3. I hope NASA selects the same award-winning managers as for the LCROSS mission.

1. Unsubstantiated. Also, it did not return that much data
2. It got a free launch.
3. No, they did not do anything special. The free ride is what was the key.
Again, this has nothing to do with Spacex.

LCROSS.

Awards
LCROSS has received numerous awards for its technical, managerial, and scientific accomplishments.
2010: Northrop Grumman Northrop Grumman Corporate 2010 Award for Excellence (Northrop Grumman team)[citation needed]
2010: Popular Mechanics magazine's 2010 Breakthrough Award for innovation in science and technology.[32]
2010: NASA Honor Award – Group Achievement, (LCROSS Science Team)
2010: NASA Honor Award – Group Achievement, (LCROSS Mission Operations Team)
2010: NASA Honor Award – Group Achievement, for “outstanding professionalism, innovation in outreach and education, and for integrating outreach for two missions into one launch.” (LRO/LCROSS/LPRP EPO teams)
2010: NASA Honor Award - Outstanding Leadership Medal, (Dan Andrews & Tony Colaprete)
2010: NASA Honor Award - Group Achievement, LCROSS Science and Payload Team
2010: NASA Ames Honor Award, category “Exceptional Achievement” (Rusty Hunt & Ken Galal)
2010: Northrop Grumman AS Sector President’s Award, category “Operational Excellence” (Northrop Grumman team)
2010: Aviation Week Laureate Award Nominee, Category “Space”[citation needed]
2010: Space Foundation “John L. 'Jack' Swigert Jr., Award for Space Exploration”[33]
2010: National Space Society “Space Pioneer Award” 2009, Category “Science and Engineering”
2010: Northrop Grumman “Distinguished Engineering Project Achievement Award”, 55th Annual Engineering Council[citation needed]
2010: NASA OCE Systems Engineering Award, NASA Office of Chief Engineer[citation needed]
2010: Aviation Week 2009 Program Excellence Award, Category “System Level Production & Sustainment”[citation needed]
2009: Northrop Grumman Technical Services’ “Award for Excellence”: 2009, (LCROSS team)
2009: NASA Ames Honor Award, category “team” (LCROSS Team)[citation needed]
2009: NASA Ames Honor Award, category “Engineering” (Tom Luzod)[citation needed]
2009: NASA Honor Award - Exceptional Achievement Medal, (Dan Andrews)[citation needed]
2009: NASA Honor Award - Group Achievement, LCROSS Project Team[citation needed]
2008: ILEWG International Lunar Exploration “Technology Award”, for the development of advanced technologies within hard constraints of short time and cost[citation needed]
2008: NASA Ames Honor Award, category “Engineering” (Bob Barber)[citation needed]
2008: Northrop Grumman “Mission Excellence” Award, LCROSS Spacecraft Team[citation needed]
2007: NASA Ames Honor Award - Group Achievement, Successful completion of CDR[citation needed]
2006: NASA Ames Honor Award, category “Project Management” (Dan Andrews)[citation needed]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCROSS

LCROSS proved large amounts of water in shadowed craters on the Moon. RESOLVE's job now is to find if that water is in bound form or is it free water mixed in with lunar dust, and to prove whether or not that water can be made into hydrogen/oxygen propellant by an automated, robotic process.
If it can be, then lunar propellant would greatly cut costs for manned asteroidal and Mars missions since the large amount of propellant required would not have to be dragged up from the Earth's deep gravity well.


Bob Clark

 

[Byeman]

Awards
LCROSS has received numerous awards for its technical, managerial, and scientific accomplishments.
2010: Northrop Grumman Northrop Grumman Corporate 2010 Award for Excellence (Northrop Grumman team)[citation needed]
2010: Popular Mechanics magazine's 2010 Breakthrough Award for innovation in science and technology.[32]
2010: NASA Honor Award – Group Achievement, (LCROSS Science Team)
2010: NASA Honor Award – Group Achievement, (LCROSS Mission Operations Team)
2010: NASA Honor Award – Group Achievement, for “outstanding professionalism, innovation in outreach and education, and for integrating outreach for two missions into one launch.” (LRO/LCROSS/LPRP EPO teams)
2010: NASA Honor Award - Outstanding Leadership Medal, (Dan Andrews & Tony Colaprete)
2010: NASA Honor Award - Group Achievement, LCROSS Science and Payload Team
2010: NASA Ames Honor Award, category “Exceptional Achievement” (Rusty Hunt & Ken Galal)
2010: Northrop Grumman AS Sector President’s Award, category “Operational Excellence” (Northrop Grumman team)
2010: Aviation Week Laureate Award Nominee, Category “Space”[citation needed]
2010: Space Foundation “John L. 'Jack' Swigert Jr., Award for Space Exploration”[33]
2010: National Space Society “Space Pioneer Award” 2009, Category “Science and Engineering”
2010: Northrop Grumman “Distinguished Engineering Project Achievement Award”, 55th Annual Engineering Council[citation needed]
2010: NASA OCE Systems Engineering Award, NASA Office of Chief Engineer[citation needed]
2010: Aviation Week 2009 Program Excellence Award, Category “System Level Production & Sustainment”[citation needed]
2009: Northrop Grumman Technical Services’ “Award for Excellence”: 2009, (LCROSS team)
2009: NASA Ames Honor Award, category “team” (LCROSS Team)[citation needed]
2009: NASA Ames Honor Award, category “Engineering” (Tom Luzod)[citation needed]
2009: NASA Honor Award - Exceptional Achievement Medal, (Dan Andrews)[citation needed]
2009: NASA Honor Award - Group Achievement, LCROSS Project Team[citation needed]
2008: ILEWG International Lunar Exploration “Technology Award”, for the development of advanced technologies within hard constraints of short time and cost[citation needed]
2008: NASA Ames Honor Award, category “Engineering” (Bob Barber)[citation needed]
2008: Northrop Grumman “Mission Excellence” Award, LCROSS Spacecraft Team[citation needed]
2007: NASA Ames Honor Award - Group Achievement, Successful completion of CDR[citation needed]
2006: NASA Ames Honor Award, category “Project Management” (Dan Andrews)[citation needed]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCROSS

Nothing out of the ordinary. Every spacecraft project gets that many awards for its technical, managerial, and scientific accomplishments. NASA and Center honor awards, especially the group achievement awards are dime a dozen.

 

[blackstar]

NASA and Center honor awards, especially the group achievement awards are dime a dozen.

Hell, even I have one of those. And since I know about the process by which they were given out, I know that it's not much of an award. (I also saw them given out to people simply for doing their job.)

 

[RGClark]

Awards
LCROSS has received numerous awards for its technical, managerial, and scientific accomplishments.
...

Nothing out of the ordinary. Every spacecraft project gets that many awards for its technical, managerial, and scientific accomplishments. NASA and Center honor awards, especially the group achievement awards are dime a dozen.

Now you're the one making unsubstantiated statements. Prove it.
Note this is not just for mission excellence but because they were able to accomplish it at low cost.
Mars Science Laboratory might also wind up garnering such a large number of awards but that is for a $2.5 billion mission, not a $70 million one.

Bob Clark

 

[RGClark]

NASA and Center honor awards, especially the group achievement awards are dime a dozen.

Hell, even I have one of those. And since I know about the process by which they were given out, I know that it's not much of an award. (I also saw them given out to people simply for doing their job.)

Oh which one was that? You made the claim. Let's see if it is on the same level as the Ph.D. scientists and engineers who produced this mission.
Really, there is no need to denigrate the important accomplishments of the scientists who produced this mission.

Bob Clark

 

[blackstar]

Oh which one was that? You made the claim.

I was an investigator on the CAIB. Got one for that. Rather superfluous in my opinion. We did a good job, I was proud of our work, and it helped to put the space shuttle program back on track.

 

[Byeman]

Awards
LCROSS has received numerous awards for its technical, managerial, and scientific accomplishments.
...

Nothing out of the ordinary. Every spacecraft project gets that many awards for its technical, managerial, and scientific accomplishments. NASA and Center honor awards, especially the group achievement awards are dime a dozen.

Now you're the one making unsubstantiated statements. Prove it.
Note this is not just for mission excellence but because they were able to accomplish it at low cost.
Mars Science Laboratory might also wind up garnering such a large number of awards but that is for a $2.5 billion mission, not a $70 million one.

Bob Clark

It was low cost because they didn't have pay for a launch vehicle, spacecraft structure (it used an ESPA ring) or an impactor. If it had to pay for these it would be on the order of $200 million.
I have NASA Group Achievement Awards for MER, MRO, MSL, Juno, GRAIL, multiple Spacehab missions, Atlas V certification,etc