Space Suit Prototypes (like Grumman Moon Suit, Republic etc)

[Grey Havoc]

https://science.slashdot.org/story/18/07/27/219203/an-open-source-diy-spacesuit-is-about-to-get-its-first-life-or-death-test

Hmmmm.

 

[Michel Van]

https://science.slashdot.org/story/18/07/27/219203/an-open-source-diy-spacesuit-is-about-to-get-its-first-life-or-death-test

Hmmmm.

Here is Detail Article about Cameron Smith Space Suit
https://medium.com/the-journal-of-critical-space-studies/pacific-spaceflight-ab25c5b4347c

 

[Grey Havoc]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/nasas-space-suit-drama-could-delay-our-trip-to-the-moon

Sigh.

 

[Byeman]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/nasas-space-suit-drama-could-delay-our-trip-to-the-moon

Sigh.

Idiotic article. No need for new suits yet. Need a lander first.

 

[Michel Van]

a ID request from Hoonte out NASASpaceFlight.com Forum

I think that's flight suit with experimental Flight helmet
got someone more info on that ?

 

[The Artist]

a ID request from Hoonte out NASASpaceFlight.com Forum

I think that's flight suit with experimental Flight helmet
got someone more info on that ?

My first impression on seeing the "suit" is that it looks like a harness for wire work (pre-water tank thinking for Zero-G simulation) and it is what ever systems are in that helmet that are being tested. With no neck protection and just shirt sleeves on his arms, that does not look like a pressure suit design. Also. It looks like the patch on the right side of the person's chest says 'AMES'

 

[edwest4]

World's first space suit, 1953.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Colliers-Magazine-February-28-1953-Mans-Survival-In-Space-1st-Space-Suit/122643624457?hash=item1c8e213209:g:S3IAAOSwfkdZjdDk

 

[TomS]

[quote author=The Artist ]. Also. It looks like the patch on the right side of the person's chest says 'AMES'
[/quote]

Possibly just the NASA Ames Research Center.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Miss Kentucky (year?) about to step out of one of the 1-gravity trainer LRV used in happier times to give the Apollo astronauts instruction in the operation and driving practice of the real rover. The helper is wearing a definitely tired Command Module pilot (CMP) A7L space suit topped with a very rare early red Lunar Extravehicular Visor Assembly (LEVA).

Photo taken at the Space and Rocket Center Museum, Huntsville, Al (thanks, Alan). A Saturn rocket lying on the dirt and this. All very sad.

https://elpoderdelasgalaxias.wordpr...oving-vehicle-lrv-who-the-mighty-have-fallen/

 

[Grey Havoc]

Space General Corp. Mk.1: Humpty Dumpty on the Moon.

Mattel’s Major Mason and his “streamlined” taste. The “peculiar” early 1960s Space General Corporation/Grumman Mk.1 moon suit was essentially designed as a pressurized…

elpoderdelasgalaxias.wordpress.com

 

[Grey Havoc]

From last year:

 

[Grey Havoc]

Strange to think that the first prototype shuttle EVA suit was completed in 1974 (I had thought it was a little later, around 1977).

 

[chimeric oncogene]

From last year:

What do they mean "technology beats aesthetics"?
I think the suit looks great.

 

[Grey Havoc]

1977: The AX-3 Spacesuit — Retronaut

This is the third AX (Ames Experimental) hard suit developed by NASA, following two between 1964 and 1968. California's Ames Research Center (ARC), founded in 1939, is a primary NASA research center. Unlike the soft-shell suit, hard-shell space suits like the AX-3 enable movement

retronaut.com

 

[Grey Havoc]

Not a prototype, and not exactly a spacesuit, but still interesting:

Spacesuit for the ground

Paris (ESA) May 13, 2020 - Not a spacesuit but a SCAPE suit - standing for 'Self Contained Atmospheric Protective Ensemble'. Technicians don these suits before filling satellites with the toxic hydrazine fuel used for manoeuv

www.spacedaily.com

 

[Grey Havoc]

MOL MH-5 Spacesuit: No Joy Today.

Two of the Space suits related to the USAF MOL space station program. Gemini’s pretty David Clark used by NASA in their missions and one of the stunning new designs created for the USAF progr…

elpoderdelasgalaxias.wordpress.com

 

[The Artist]

Some members of this group are old enough to remember this. For the others, here is the story. https://www.primaryimmune.org/story-david

 

[Grey Havoc]

Sokol-K: Man in a Bubble.

This cosmonaut sealed in his early Sokol spacesuit has been identified as Yuri Romanenko, the commander of the Soyuz-26 mission, in some places. But I can’t find the resemblance. Looks to me …

elpoderdelasgalaxias.wordpress.com

 

[Bottleship]

Early Soviet suits:
Ch-3, 1936:

SK-TsAGI-5, 1940:

SK-TsAGI-6:

In Russian language for these suits (and, also, for diving armour), use term "skafandr" (Rus. скафандр, based on Greek "skafos" - boat, and "andros" - man, "boat-man"), but, also, in late XIX - early XX century, "skafandr" - name of pressurized cab. First "skafandr" for aeronauts in Russia suggested by engineer Pilchikov in 1890, but I haven't data about construction - it was a normal suit or massive cabine.

 

[archipeppe]

Early Soviet suits:

In Russian language for these suits (and, also, for diving armour), use term "skafandr" (Rus. скафандр, based on Greek "skafos" - boat, and "andros" - man, "boat-man"), but, also, in late XIX - early XX century, "skafandr" - name of pressurized cab. First "skafandr" for aeronauts in Russia suggested by engineer Pilchikov in 1890, but I haven't data about construction - it was a normal suit or massive cabine.

Thank you for such nice and new pictures.
Looking at those suits it is clear to trace the root of the actual Sokol pressurized suits design.

 

[Michel Van]

what fantastic find iron felix

it first time i see pressure suit with fur boots (SK-TsAGI-6

source ?

 

[Bottleship]

what fantastic find iron felix

it first time i see pressure suit with fur boots (SK-TsAGI-6

source ?

Fur boots were included in the standard set of winter uniforms.

 

[Grey Havoc]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYgiV4Iz7I0

 

[antigravite]

Hi,

I came across a book of interest (ordered but not received yet) which I am herein introducing for the sake of contextual awarenes:

Barbara Brownie, Weightlessness And The Final Frontier Of Fashion, Bloomsbury Visual Arts, 2019, 179p.

Enjoy.

A.

PS) Publisher info below

Abstract: "Today, we are living in the New Space Age, where mass commercial space travel is almost within our grasp. This otherworldly possibility has opened up new cultural images of space, both real and fictional, and has caused fashion design and spacesuit engineering to intersect in new, exciting ways. Spacewear traverses this uncharted territory by exploring the changing imagination of space in fashion and fashion in space-from the first Space Age to the 21st century. Exploring how space travel has stylistically and technologically framed fashion design on earth and how we need to revisit established design practices for the weightless environment, Spacewear connects the catwalk and the space station. // This book draws together speculative fantasies in sci-fi films such as Star Trek and 2001: A Space Odyssey, with the engineered spacesuits Biosuit, and the NASA Z-2 and with catwalk interpretations by the likes of Alexander McQueen, Hussein Chalayan, André Courrèges, and Iris van Herpen. While the development of commercial space agencies has led to new concerns for style in garments for outer space that re-think fundamental design principles such as drape, high fashion has experimented with new possibilities for weightlessness that extend far beyond the 1960s vision of Space Age metallic fabrics and helmet-style headwear. // Brownie takes the reader on a fascinating journey from fantasy to function and to form, deepening our understanding of this new category of fashion that is prompting new approaches to garment design and construction both on earth and in outer space."

Author biography: Barbara Brownie is Principal Lecturer in Visual Communication at the University of Hertfordshire, UK, where she leads online postgraduate study in the School of art and Design. She is co-author of The Superhero Costume (Bloomsbury, 2015) and author of Transforming Type (Bloomsbury, 2015) and Acts of Undressing (Bloomsbury, 2016).

 

[Bottleship]

Konstantin Tsiolkovkiy, USSR, 1933:

Опись 1

 

[archipeppe]

Konstantin Tsiolkovkiy, USSR, 1933:

Опись 1

The most important thing of these historical sketeches was not the space suit per se, rather than the very first design of a practical airlock.
Conceptually speaking the current ones come directly from such early intuition.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Now that’s *stylish* – The Unwanted Blog

A 1963 USAF report describes work on an emergency “space suit.” It’s meant to be something that can be worn as a normal outfit and then zipped up at a moments notice in the event of a pressure drop. This includes a flexible helmet with a flexible “faceplate.” the end result looks like something out of a bad 1970’s pre-Star Wars disco-era sci-fi flick. Note, though that the actual test item is substantially less Giant Polyester Leisure Suit Lapels and more Cheap Plastic Poncho.

 

[Grey Havoc]

[W]ith the new industry request, NASA has done that. Bidders can use the technology NASA developed for xEMU in its proposals, or they can use their own designs, the document states. The suits must be able to meet a variety of requirements, including up to six spacewalks on the lunar surface during initial Artemis Moon missions. They must also be made of materials such that less than 100 grams of lunar regolith is brought back into the "cabin environment" after each spacewalk on the Moon. NASA plans to award a contract by next April.

After years of futility, NASA turns to private sector for spacesuit help

“A flight-ready suit remains years away from completion.”…

arstechnica.com

 

[blackstar]

[W]ith the new industry request, NASA has done that. Bidders can use the technology NASA developed for xEMU in its proposals, or they can use their own designs, the document states. The suits must be able to meet a variety of requirements, including up to six spacewalks on the lunar surface during initial Artemis Moon missions. They must also be made of materials such that less than 100 grams of lunar regolith is brought back into the "cabin environment" after each spacewalk on the Moon. NASA plans to award a contract by next April.

After years of futility, NASA turns to private sector for spacesuit help

“A flight-ready suit remains years away from completion.”…

arstechnica.com

I don't really get the whole "turning to the private sector" angle--NASA hired numerous companies in the past to build its spacesuits such as ILC Dover. Oceaneering worked on a lot of EVA equipment, as did other companies. These may be changes in contracting rules, but commercial companies have long built and maintained NASA spacesuits.

 

[RanulfC]

[W]ith the new industry request, NASA has done that. Bidders can use the technology NASA developed for xEMU in its proposals, or they can use their own designs, the document states. The suits must be able to meet a variety of requirements, including up to six spacewalks on the lunar surface during initial Artemis Moon missions. They must also be made of materials such that less than 100 grams of lunar regolith is brought back into the "cabin environment" after each spacewalk on the Moon. NASA plans to award a contract by next April.

After years of futility, NASA turns to private sector for spacesuit help

“A flight-ready suit remains years away from completion.”…

arstechnica.com

I don't really get the whole "turning to the private sector" angle--NASA hired numerous companies in the past to build its spacesuits such as ILC Dover. Oceaneering worked on a lot of EVA equipment, as did other companies. These may be changes in contracting rules, but commercial companies have long built and maintained NASA spacesuits.

The idea is that the "private sector" could/would suddenly find a reason to build space suites vastly cheaper than they (the private sector) already do. For 'someone' other than NASA but NASA would end up paying for it. It's the same as the general launch market since "SpaceX" greatly reduced the general price of launches, (even though NASA paid for it) thinking that somehow there is a market for space suits.

 

[TomcatViP]

Given that Space tourists (hitchhikers) have the budget and would be pleased to have them custom made as, probably, keeping them as a souvenir post flight, there should be no doubts that there is an interesting market

Would you enjoy as much your cruise in the Bahamas if you were alloted standards Bob hats, red shorts and standardized Hawaiian shirt?

 

[blackstar]

Given that Space tourists (hitchhikers) have the budget and would be pleased to have them custom made as, probably, keeping them as a souvenir post flight, there should be no doubts that there is an interesting market

Would you enjoy as much your cruise in the Bahamas if you were alloted standards Bob hats, red shorts and standardized Hawaiian shirt?

Different kinds of suits. The tourists don't need an EVA suit.

 

[blackstar]

The idea is that the "private sector" could/would suddenly find a reason to build space suites vastly cheaper than they (the private sector) already do. For 'someone' other than NASA but NASA would end up paying for it. It's the same as the general launch market since "SpaceX" greatly reduced the general price of launches, (even though NASA paid for it) thinking that somehow there is a market for space suits.

You wrote a bunch of words that don't say anything. ILC Dover is a commercial company. Hamilton-Sunstrand is a commercial company. Commercial companies have been involved in spacesuit development since the beginning of the space program. This is a change in contracting methods, not some fundamental shift.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Private sector contractors know their customers. For example, Morton's contracted me to write "Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird: Origins and Evolution." There was a certain dollar amount attached to that. But if the United States Friggen' Government had come along and said "We need you to write this book on the SR-71 and price is no object..." yep, I'm'a gonna do it for the low, low, incredibly low price of a few million dollars more than Mortons paid me. Why? Because:
1: The US government *has* that much more money
2: Government bureaucrats either don't understand the value of a dollar or don't care, and thus it is my moral, legal, ethical and financial responsibility to soak them as heavily as possible.*

So a private spacesuit contractor that charges the government many millions of dollars for a space suit might well figure out that they can make a decent profit off selling a slightly simplified version to private individuals for several orders of magnitude less.

* When I stand before Crom and he asks "what is the riddle of government contracting," if I don't answer with "why buy one when you can get two at twice the price," he will laugh at me and throw me out of Valhalla.

 

[RanulfC]

The idea is that the "private sector" could/would suddenly find a reason to build space suites vastly cheaper than they (the private sector) already do. For 'someone' other than NASA but NASA would end up paying for it. It's the same as the general launch market since "SpaceX" greatly reduced the general price of launches, (even though NASA paid for it) thinking that somehow there is a market for space suits.

You wrote a bunch of words that don't say anything. ILC Dover is a commercial company. Hamilton-Sunstrand is a commercial company. Commercial companies have been involved in spacesuit development since the beginning of the space program. This is a change in contracting methods, not some fundamental shift.

You said you "didn't get it" so I "explained" the idea. Said not a word about buying it myself I'm well aware the "private sector" already builds the suits there is now an idea that the "private sector" will also drive the design and therefore cost of the suits so "in theory" making the price and availability more 'commercial.

The problem here is that it ignores the actual fact that we've had a "commercial space suit" industry in operation for almost two decades now and the 'market' is still non-flexible and doesn't support the "current" three or four companies let alone any real competition. (Orbital Outfitters did the SpaceX IVA suit and there's one other out there who'd done IVA work but I can't think of the name atm)

Private sector contractors know their customers. For example, Morton's contracted me to write "Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird: Origins and Evolution." There was a certain dollar amount attached to that. But if the United States Friggen' Government had come along and said "We need you to write this book on the SR-71 and price is no object..." yep, I'm'a gonna do it for the low, low, incredibly low price of a few million dollars more than Mortons paid me. Why? Because:
1: The US government *has* that much more money
2: Government bureaucrats either don't understand the value of a dollar or don't care, and thus it is my moral, legal, ethical and financial responsibility to soak them as heavily as possible.*

So a private spacesuit contractor that charges the government many millions of dollars for a space suit might well figure out that they can make a decent profit off selling a slightly simplified version to private individuals for several orders of magnitude less.

* When I stand before Crom and he asks "what is the riddle of government contracting," if I don't answer with "why buy one when you can get two at twice the price," he will laugh at me and throw me out of Valhalla.

The "problem" though is unlike the book there's simply no real 'customers' for commercial space suit design and construction and there's not likely to be enough of a "market" to significantly reduce the price to where lowering the cost will be profitable.

"Price is not an object" (it is actually as what it costs to produce an actual suit to the proper specifications is NOT cheap by any means as nations like China and India have found out) has a tendency to be the default when you can't afford failure. Couple that with a very low production rate, (how much would that book cost if you and Morton KNEW they were only going to sell a few copies and you and they still had to make a profit?) low demand and limited market and of course the cost is going to be high. IVA suits aside there's no real 'competition' to be had and unlikely to be much bigger even if things like Space Tourism to orbit actually takes off.

We already know that "private space suit' developers are not going to lower the price much as they've already shown the market to be mostly inflexible and limited for IVA suits let alone EVA capable suits.

Randy

 

[RanulfC]

Given that Space tourists (hitchhikers) have the budget and would be pleased to have them custom made as, probably, keeping them as a souvenir post flight, there should be no doubts that there is an interesting market

As noted different suits for different needs. Orbital suits capable of EVA are not likely to be up for 'keeping' as souvenir but an IVA suit is pretty damn cheap and as such neither designed or made to stand up to the same parameters.

Would you enjoy as much your cruise in the Bahamas if you were alloted standards Bob hats, red shorts and standardized Hawaiian shirt?

Point of fact in the industry it wouldn't MATTER in that context because the whole 'point' of the 'cruise' is to build an experience not to focus on any single aspect. You were SO close btw on the point but you missed it:
"Would you enjoy as much your cruise to the Bahamas if you were allotted a "standard" life jacket? You would? Great, because you don't get to bring your own anyway. The "hat/shorts/shirt" is an IVA suit, the "life jacket" is an EVA suit. And btw cruises in extreme areas (Northern and Southern polar regions) ALSO have a 'standard' survival suit for each 'guest' and crew member stored on-board so again the thing is they are there as examples already. And no, they are not 'cheap' either and are strictly generic in nature.

Randy

 

[Orionblamblam]

"Price is not an object" (it is actually as what it costs to produce an actual suit to the proper specifications is NOT cheap by any means as nations like China and India have found out) has a tendency to be the default when you can't afford failure. Couple that with a very low production rate, low demand and limited market and of course the cost is going to be high. IVA suits aside there's no real 'competition' to be had and unlikely to be much bigger even if things like Space Tourism to orbit actually takes off.

Yeah, but is space tourism takes off, especially so if space *industrialization* takes off, "low production rate" may go right out the window, with standardized bits and pieces stuck together to make more or less fitted suits.

(how much would that book cost if you and Morton KNEW they were only going to sell a few copies and you and they still had to make a profit?)

 

[TomcatViP]

Would you enjoy as much your cruise in the Bahamas if you were alloted standards Bob hats, red shorts and standardized Hawaiian shirt?

Point of fact in the industry it wouldn't MATTER in that context because the whole 'point' of the 'cruise' is to build an experience not to focus on any single aspect. You were SO close btw on the point but you missed it:
"Would you enjoy as much your cruise to the Bahamas if you were allotted a "standard" life jacket? You would? Great, because you don't get to bring your own anyway. The "hat/shorts/shirt" is an IVA suit, the "life jacket" is an EVA suit. And btw cruises in extreme areas (Northern and Southern polar regions) ALSO have a 'standard' survival suit for each 'guest' and crew member stored on-board so again the thing is they are there as examples already. And no, they are not 'cheap' either and are strictly generic in nature.

Randy

Ppl don't sign for a cruise to down a survival suit!
Similarly, EVA (but with not much activity) will be a demand for the market. So, sooner or later, customization will apply.

 

[RanulfC]

"Price is not an object" (it is actually as what it costs to produce an actual suit to the proper specifications is NOT cheap by any means as nations like China and India have found out) has a tendency to be the default when you can't afford failure. Couple that with a very low production rate, low demand and limited market and of course the cost is going to be high. IVA suits aside there's no real 'competition' to be had and unlikely to be much bigger even if things like Space Tourism to orbit actually takes off.

Yeah, but is space tourism takes off, especially so if space *industrialization* takes off, "low production rate" may go right out the window, with standardized bits and pieces stuck together to make more or less fitted suits.

Not necessarily, EVA is not a big 'draw' for Space Tourism mostly from the insurance/liability aspect and there's good reasons for that given the complexity and danger involved. (There's a reason they put a 'dome' on the Inspiration flight

Ppl don't sign for a cruise to down a survival suit!
Similarly, EVA (but with not much activity) will be a demand for the market. So, sooner or later, customization will apply.

The problem with that first bit is that people DO actually sign up for getting all dressed up in company provided survival gear and such to an small extent but the harder and more 'complex' it is the less it's seen as a desired portion of the "outing". Getting into a space suit is not easy, it's tough to do anything in them and it's dangerous and exhausting. So there's not all that much 'desire' to go "outside" and a lot more interest in doing 'indoor' activities while in orbit.

Actually the data says that views and interior 'experience' have a higher priority and desirability for orbital tourism. (Along with an overall "trip" experience such as high quality quarters, food and on-orbit {weightless but inside} activities) EVA's are really far down on the list of activities for Space Tourism, partially because of the suits which makes it a "chicken/egg" issue.

Sure if you have enough demand the design and cost will come down but I don't think people realize how MUCH demand has to rise. Scott's actually correct in that industrialization and/or the need to actually "do work" in space would be a much higher motivator than tourism. As I pointed out above there's some significant 'risk' issues that heavily work out against tourism EVA's and the companies involved are very aware of this.

Orbital Space Tourism is very 'destination' focused in that the Inspiration flight was very much a "non-standard" flight. The majority of tourists willing to pay the required price don't want to "just" float around in a capsule for a few days increasing discomfort. They want a "long" (average is anywhere from two weeks to two months) stay in an on-orbit "destination" and for the most part they don't want the ISS, (but it's prefered over a simple 'capsule' trip) but an orbiting "hotel" with activities and services all for a price that is closer to a suborbital trip than an orbital one. (And if they HAVE to pay for an orbital trip them they demand full service and catering )

If there is tourism on the Moon or Mars, (and this will be even more expensive than orbital) then EVA becomes a larger factor but it's just not seen as really 'worth' the effort for orbital tourism. Much safer and more convenient to simply try and put in a large dome or individual "viewing domes" than trying to stuff someone into a space suit and hope they survive.

Randy

 

[Orionblamblam]

Not necessarily, EVA is not a big 'draw' for Space Tourism...

Perhaps not yet. But as interest ramps up and experience accrues, there will be more drive for EVA.

It's entirely possible - perhaps even probable - that space suits for such cases won't be the pressurized flexible spacecraft they currently are, but made-on-demand "space activity suits" that are more or less woven directly over the customer. These are not potentially as rugged as a pressurized suit and won't have the lifespan, but there's not a reason in the world why they can't be dirt cheap comparatively. A relatively small range of standard sizes with some built in "smart fibers" or some such that cinch things up to perfection, allowing the tourist to wander around outside the station or the hab for an hour or so.