Soviet ABM systems

I think I've found Argun, but I'm not 100% sure yet. Once I've got a few more things figured out, I'll post a complete Sary Shagan overview that I've been putting together the past couple of days.
 
Meteorit said:
That "tracking" of the US Shuttle from 'Terra-3' could be just a myth - see here:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=3148&posts=32&start=1

Interesting, because the story sure had me wondering. Like many of the posters in that thread I would have thought that tracking a manned spacecraft with enough power to cause discomfort/failures would be considered an act of war. Also, this document does not seem to mention any installation powerful enough to cause that kind of trouble at Sary Shagan: http://www.princeton.edu/~globsec/publications/pdf/1_1-2vonHippelA.pdf
 
Here's a preliminary ABM overview:

http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showthreaded.php/Cat/0/Number/705420/page/0/vc/1

I'm still working on a more detailed version. Browse through that and see if I've gotten anything confused or if anything is missing.
 
Here's finally what I've got about ABM-X-2. I browsed through a load of documents on the CIA FOIA site several months (or even almost a year?) ago looking for what they had of Soviet ABM systems. This is a summary of ABM-X-2 information.

SOVIET STRATEGIC DEFENSES (NIE 11-3-71) 2/25/1971
[p.48] We believe that work on a follow-on ABM system (ABM-X-2) is underway at Sary Shagan. [...] A new launch area which will include at least two launchers, now is being built next to a previously abandoned Try Add radar site at Sary Shagan. It appears that a flat, antenna has been installed within a dome on top of the large Try Add building. It is likely that a mechanically steerable, phased-array radar is under construction with significantly better target handling capabilities than those of the large Try Add radars deployed around Moscow.
[p.78] A planar phased array appears to have been substituted for the large Try Add dish radar. Additionally, the building has been enlarged, perhaps to accommodate expanded data processing equipment. [...] The follow-on long-range ABM system (which we designate the ABM-X-2) [...] consists of a Top Roost acquisition and tracking radar, a steerable phased-array radar, and a Galosh missile.

SOVIET STRATEGIC DEFENSES (NIE 11-3-71 M/H) 8/19/1971
[p.8] At Launch Complex D, a follow-on system to the system in the Moscow defenses appears to be under development. The most notable of the developments there is the steerable phased-array radar [...] Two Galosh-type launchers had been emplaced at this complex.

SOC, if you haven't done so already, could you please see through pages 8-14 of the above report, where apparently the S-225/ABM-X-3 is discussed?

SOVIET STRATEGIC DEFENSES 11/2/1972
[Too much to type, please see attached picture.]
Note that the radar is "octagonal" and "little progress has been made".

SOVIET FORCES FOR STRATEGIC NUCLEAR CONFLICT THROUGH THE MID 1980S (NIE 11-3/8) 12/21/1976
[p.43] At one complex there, the Soviets appeared to be developing a follow-on to the Moscow system, but no missiles were ever flight-tested, and the launchers now have been removed. In 1972, however, we were able to identify at this complex what probably is a high-power laser.

So, reportedly no flight tests and a radar whose description fit what I knew of the 'Argun', plus the fact that I have never heard of a fitting equivalent system from Russian sources (SOC, have you got any ideas?) resulted in my aforementioned conclusion. But I am open to new information.
 

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Our two conclusions seem to be basically the exact same thing, just differing in semantics.

Was ABM-X-2 cancelled? Yes.

Did it use ABM-1 components to an extent? Yes.

It wasn't a completely new system, it was an "upgraded A-35" for all intents and purposes. I think we've been saying exactly the same thing but managing to talk around it for the last three pages ;D They called it a "follow-on" when in reality it was an "upgrade" as it used a modified TRY ADD (PHASE ADD) and the GALOSH interceptor. As for TOP ROOST, they had it wrong way back then. TOP ROOST was the Dunai-3 prototype for the 5N11 Dunai-3M DOG HOUSE array that is part of the A-35 system. Further improvements/alterations/whatever led to the 5N11A Dunai-3U CAT HOUSE radar which came online as part of the A-135 system. TOP ROOST was probably retained and used in conjunction with GALOSH/GORGON/GAZELLE interceptor tests though, before it was dismantled.

Anyway, TRY ADD...change the array to a PHASEd array...PHASE ADD...get it? ;D The radar set is still there at Sary Shagan (or at least it was when the Google Earth imagery was taken...) and there is in fact a structure I've identified as a possible laser emitter sitting right there. It was also situated in close proximity to the Terra-3 laser site down there as well (check out the link I posted to the Google Earth file).
 
Err, I don't think we agree(d). :D

What I was trying to say was that I thought (and I still consider it's fairly possible) that the Soviets never had this "upgraded A-35" system. Instead, they wanted to test a few new radars and later a laser, but because they were constructed at a previous ABM-1 test site, Western (US) intelligence thought they were components of a "new" ABM system and assigned the ABM-X-2 designation. This designation was not cancelled, even though actual flight tests apparently never commenced. Now I think your conclusion can be proved right if a) there really was some serious construction of new launchers at the test site and/or b) we find a Russian source describing and preferably giving a designation for some sort of an intermediate design between ABM-1 and ABM-4.

SOC said:
As for TOP ROOST, they had it wrong way back then. TOP ROOST was the Dunai-3 prototype for the 5N11 Dunai-3M DOG HOUSE array that is part of the A-35 system. Further improvements/alterations/whatever led to the 5N11A Dunai-3U CAT HOUSE radar which came online as part of the A-135 system. TOP ROOST was probably retained and used in conjunction with GALOSH/GORGON/GAZELLE interceptor tests though, before it was dismantled.

Yes, I knew they were mislead with TOP ROOST.

Anyway, TRY ADD...change the array to a PHASEd array...PHASE ADD...get it? ;D The radar set is still there at Sary Shagan (or at least it was when the Google Earth imagery was taken...) and there is in fact a structure I've identified as a possible laser emitter sitting right there. It was also situated in close proximity to the Terra-3 laser site down there as well (check out the link I posted to the Google Earth file).

Well, I got it already when you first posted the designations. ;D

But a few questions, partially from the GE file:
1. So are you sure FLAT TWIN is RSN-225?
2. I thought RO-1 and RO-2 were HEN HOUSEs of some sort also. ???
3. Would that 'Radar in disrepair' be EGG HEAD?
4. What is 5N16?
5. Have you located the ABM-X-3 test site (CIA Launch Complex F)?
 
Questions first.

1. Relatively sure. Russian-language sources indicate that the engagement radar system was given the RSN-225 designator, in much the same way that the LOW BLOW of the SA-3 was given the RSN-125 designator. There may have been another designator for the radar, but RSN-225 seems to fit for now.

2. There were HEN HOUSE radars at those sites, yes. Stuff I've read concerning System A and the S-225 refer to the locations as RO-1 and RO-2. They were the first two HEN HOUSE sites outside of Sary Shagan.

3. I'm pretty sure EGG HEAD is the 5N24. The one in disrepair is possibly PHASE ADD. Still checking a few things on those.

4. Good question.

5. Yes, but it's going to be one of those launch sites in low resolution. There should in theory be another FLAT TWIN out there at the ABM-X-3 site.

Regarding ABM-X-2, the Argun radar is a component of the Avrora ABM system according to Podvig. Avrora was based on ABM-1/A-35 technology, which would seem to fit with the Argun being at that site at Sary Shagan with a TRY ADD and the PHASE ADD. Perhaps ABM-X-2 was the Avrora, and that was supposed to be tested at the Sary Shagan site, before it was dropped. Then the radars were reassigned or whatever to laser research with the laser arrays nearby. That would seem to fit with all of the data we have. ALso I should clarify, when I said "upgraded A-35", I didn't necessarily mean to imply that it was an upgrade that would be applied to the sites around Moscow, but rather that the system components of the ABM-X-2 were modified and upgraded from A-35 components. At any rate, if ABM-X-2 was Avrora, everything lines up nicely: the Argun radar at the test site, the PHASE ADD at the test site, and the lack of any apparent progress in an ABM role as Avrora was in fact not proceeded with.
 
SOC said:
3. I'm pretty sure EGG HEAD is the 5N24. The one in disrepair is possibly PHASE ADD. Still checking a few things on those.

5. Yes, but it's going to be one of those launch sites in low resolution. There should in theory be another FLAT TWIN out there at the ABM-X-3 site.

I assume you will be updating your GE file appropriately?

Regarding ABM-X-2, the Argun radar is a component of the Avrora ABM system according to Podvig. Avrora was based on ABM-1/A-35 technology, which would seem to fit with the Argun being at that site at Sary Shagan with a TRY ADD and the PHASE ADD. Perhaps ABM-X-2 was the Avrora, and that was supposed to be tested at the Sary Shagan site, before it was dropped. Then the radars were reassigned or whatever to laser research with the laser arrays nearby. That would seem to fit with all of the data we have. ALso I should clarify, when I said "upgraded A-35", I didn't necessarily mean to imply that it was an upgrade that would be applied to the sites around Moscow, but rather that the system components of the ABM-X-2 were modified and upgraded from A-35 components. At any rate, if ABM-X-2 was Avrora, everything lines up nicely: the Argun radar at the test site, the PHASE ADD at the test site, and the lack of any apparent progress in an ABM role as Avrora was in fact not proceeded with.

I think I now agree with you for the most part. But lets see what a few articles of Russian origin on FAS site have to say:

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/program/soviet/990600-bmd-rus.htm about the A-135 system
In spring 1970, the NIIRP announced a tender for the launcher's radar. In the tender participated the following projects:
-the radar with a rotating phased array from the project of the Avrora ABM system (designed by the NIIRP, Chief Designer Kisunko);
-a radar with the lens of Luneberg from the project of the Avrora ABM system (Chief designer Yu. Burlakov);
-a tetrahedral radar with a fixed phased array (designed by the Radio-Electronic Institute, RTI).

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/program/soviet/jpuma036_94003.htm
The basic comprehensive conceptual design of G.V. Kisunko for the Avrora ABM system was rejected, since it did not meet a number of effectiveness and reliability requirements. But the proposed Argun multichannel firing complex with a rotating phased-array antenna, which is still serving effectively to this day, was recommended for creation at the range as the main measuring device. Also rejected were designs by A.L. Mints for the Don-2N multifunctional radar and Yu.G. Burlakov68 for a fundamentally new Neman radar, although a reduced prototype of it was created at the range for solving problems of discrimination of complex ballistic targets.

So it would seem that two radars that had their origins in the 'Avrora' project were constructed at Sary Shagan for test purposes. Presumably these are PHASE ADD and EGG HEAD. However, 'Avrora' itself never progressed to actual construction phase, thus my opinion that ABM-X-2 can be considered an "incorrect designation" as there wasn't an ABM system, just individual radars, at the site.
But this point is rather academic.
 
And, SOC, you asked for feedback about your GE file. One more thing: would it be possible to add the name of the radar location to the LPAR/BMEWS radar lists? I find long lists with just 'Dnepr', 'Daugava', etc. difficult to process mentally. :)
 
Meteorit said:
I assume you will be updating your GE file appropriately?

Yeah, sometime tonight. I'll also be adding radar designations to more systems (more on that in a minute).

I think I now agree with you for the most part.

So it would seem that two radars that had their origins in the 'Avrora' project were constructed at Sary Shagan for test purposes. Presumably these are PHASE ADD and EGG HEAD. However, 'Avrora' itself never progressed to actual construction phase, thus my opinion that ABM-X-2 can be considered an "incorrect designation" as there wasn't an ABM system, just individual radars, at the site.
But this point is rather academic.

That seems to fit. ABM-X-2 as a "wrong" designation seems correct to me, given that they didn't proceed with Avrora.

And, SOC, you asked for feedback about your GE file. One more thing: would it be possible to add the name of the radar location to the LPAR/BMEWS radar lists? I find long lists with just 'Dnepr', 'Daugava', etc. difficult to process mentally.

Not a problem. Initially I had them organized like that but decided against it because I thought it was too wordy. If it makes it easier to interpret then by all means I'll add locations to the file as well.

Now as to the radar designations, I have a preliminary list concocted, but I figured I'd see if you all could clarify some discrepancies I have.

PILL BOX Don-2N/5N20
HORSE LEG Don-2NP/5N20NP
XXXX 5N16 Neman
FLAT TWIN 5N65 or 5K17 or RSN-225?
HEN HOUSE 5N15 Dnestr
HEN HOUSE 5N15M Dnestr-M
HEN HOUSE 5N76 or 5N86 or 6N86P Dnepr? (one person thinks 6N86P is the Sary Shagan Dnepr...does P perhaps mean prototype? Would match PILL BOX/HORSE LEG if so)
HEN HOUSE 5U83 Dauguva
XXXX 5N79 or 5N86 Daryal?
STEEL WORK 5N32 Duga
STEEL WORK 5N77 Duga-2
STEEL WORK XXX Duga-3 (apparently Duga-3 was the operational version; Duga and Duga-2 were tested at Nikolayev, is this correct?)
DOG HOUSE 5N11 Dunai-3/3U
CAT HOUSE 5N11A Dunai-3A/3M (3U and 3M fit "better" as Dunai-3 was the prototype TOP ROOST for DOG HOUSE)
HEN ROOST Dunai-2
TOP ROOST Dunai-3
PHASE ADD 5N24 Argun
What was Dunai-1?
What is the designator for TRY ADD?

Any comments on the radars is appreciated.
 
You have variously said Argun being PHASE ADD and EGG HEAD. Now which one is it? ??? :mad: ;D

5N16 Neman could be another leftover from the Avrora program.

Is the designation for Duga-3 STEEL WORK or STEEL WORKS? Also, I remember reading the smaller facility (for coverage of China?) being designated STEEL YARD (or then it was the other way round).

An A-35 launch site had one RKTs target tracking radar and two RKI ABM tracking and guidance radars. From CIA documents I got the impression that the whole combination was designated TRY ADD.

Other than that, I don't think I can add anything.

PS. SOC, correct the misplaced "quote" tag on your post above. :)
 
It's STEEL WORK, no S. STEEL YARD is a false codename, as far as I know it was never assigned. Those three guidance radars when sited together do make up a TRY ADD system (TRY ADD...triad...heh); TRY ADD A, B, and C actually (A is the large one, B/C are the smaller ones). And Argun is EGG HEAD, oops.

Quote tag corrected ;D
 
What's this? (Found from http://forums.airbase.ru/viewtopic.php?id=50559&p=3)

And SOC, I'm waiting for that GE locations file update. :)
 

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overscan said:
Possibly 51T6 missile from the A-135 system

Overscan, this missile is not 51T6, this is Fakel V-825.


SOC said:
Here are some more ABM photos that haven't been posted.
GORGON first stage:
http://vk1.bmstu.ru/?module=photos&topic=1&pid=56

May be you mean GORGON second stage? :)


SOC said:
New systems: 45T6 missile, 55T6 missile (51T6 follow-on), and 53T6M (modified GAZELLE)

Fakel 55T6 is not 51T6 follow-on as you notice. 55T6 was the alternative project to Novator 5Ya26/PRS-1 missile for A-135 system and was canceled (circa 1984) in favour of Novator 53T6 design.


Meteorit said:
What's this? (Found from http://forums.airbase.ru/viewtopic.php?id=50559&p=3)

Thank you for visiting our forum ;) This is part of Novator 5Ya26/PRS-1 missile at Priozersk (as monument).
 
SOC said:
Now as to the radar designations, I have a preliminary list concocted, but I figured I'd see if you all could clarify some discrepancies I have.

XXXX 5N16 Neman

I've never seen this (5N16) designation.

FLAT TWIN 5N65 or 5K17 or RSN-225?

RSN-225 is designation for the radar of S-225 ABM system. 5K17 Azov is designation of the polygon instrumentation radar.

HEN HOUSE 5N76 or 5N86 or 6N86P Dnepr? (one person thinks 6N86P is the Sary Shagan Dnepr...does P perhaps mean prototype? Would match PILL BOX/HORSE LEG if so)

Dnepr is 5N86 and 5N86P is Dnepr prototype at Sary Shagan (P is for polygon in russian).

XXXX 5N79 or 5N86 Daryal?

Daryal is 5N79.

STEEL WORK XXX Duga-3 (apparently Duga-3 was the operational version; Duga and Duga-2 were tested at Nikolayev, is this correct?)

Operational version was 5N32 Duga-2 at Pripyat' and Komsomolsk-on-Amur sites. The prototype 5N77 Duga was at Nikolayev.

DOG HOUSE 5N11 Dunai-3/3U
CAT HOUSE 5N11A Dunai-3A/3M (3U and 3M fit "better" as Dunai-3 was the prototype TOP ROOST for DOG HOUSE)

Dog House was Dunai-3M at Kubinka and Cat House is Dunai-3U at Chekhov.
5N11A was designation for Daryal-S project.

TOP ROOST Dunai-3

Dunai-3UP

PHASE ADD 5N24 Argun

Important note! 5N25 Argun is designation for whole missile complex. The radar has designation 5N24/RKTs-35TA Istra.

What was Dunai-1?

Dunai-1 was small research radar, technology demonstrator for Dunai-2.


I have a question about Hen Nest and Hen Egg designation. To what radars they were assigned?
 
muxel said:
Important note! 5N25 Argun is designation for whole missile complex. The radar has designation 5N24/RKTs-35TA Istra.

Could you please clarify which missile complex this would be? Aurora?

I have a question about Hen Nest and Hen Egg designation. To what radars they were assigned?

Unless I'm mistaken HEN NEST was the RSV-PR missile acquisition radar and HEN EGG the RTN tracking radar of System A.
 

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muxel said:
Fakel 55T6 is not 51T6 follow-on as you notice. 55T6 was the alternative project to Novator 5Ya26/PRS-1 missile for A-135 system and was canceled (circa 1984) in favour of Novator 53T6 design.

So can anyone tell us anything about the 45T6 missile?

Thank you for visiting our forum ;) This is part of Novator 5Ya26/PRS-1 missile at Priozersk (as monument).

As I thought...
 
Meteorit said:
Could you please clarify which missile complex this would be? Aurora?

Do you understand the difference between missile complex and missile system? 5N25 Argun missile complex was prototype of missile complex for Aurora missile system.

Unless I'm mistaken HEN NEST was the RSV-PR missile acquisition radar and HEN EGG the RTN tracking radar of System A.

I don't know what radar on your first picture, but on second and third pictures is RTN radars from the A system.
 
Meteorit said:
And SOC, I'm waiting for that GE locations file update. :)

I'm working it. I'm sorting through the radar system names posted by muxel. Not sure I agree with some of them, so I'm sifting through things to see what stays and what goes, and then the file will be updated with more detailed info and some more images as well.
 
http://temperedinsanity.blogspot.com/2007/06/russian-strategic-defense-part-2-abm.html

See if that's any good :D
 
Good stuff, but you've mixed up your ex-USSR geography, Lake Baikal is most certainly not in Kazakhstan :D I know, damn B's ;)

Are you sure about the Daugava being a variant of the Dnestr/Dnepr-series? Pavel Podvig considers it a prototype Daryal-receiver that used the existing Olenegorsk radar as its transmitter. Also, Volga does look like it is based on Daryal, but one of the antenna buildings is significantly different. What makes this whole question interesting is that Podvig credits Volga with a 10cm wavelength while Daryal has metre-waves according to him - which would make sense if Daugava was able to act in conjunction with the Olenegorsk site, as that one supposedly uses this wavelength. So either the resemblance between Volga and Daryal is purely superficial, or Daryal might be more suitable as an engagement radar for an ABM system afterall.

BTW, Voronezh-DM has had its antenna array tripled from the original tall and slim configuration, giving it a square appearance: http://russianforces.org/blog/2006/12/the_earlywarning_radar_in_lekh.shtml

Recently, I even found a small photo showing how it looks now:
 

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Whoops. I changed it to read Balkhash ;D

Daugava is a HEN HOUSE series radar. It does use a new array system that was considered by some sources to be a precursor to the Daryal radar, albeit not technically a prototype or anything. The Daryal was based on Daugava technology to an extent but represented a new design.
 
There we go, I've edited the article to include a little more text, and a lot more imagery. This should be a much better presentation now that some of the system layouts are provided.
 
kind of summarizes all the stuff here
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_security/space_weapons/a-history-of-asat-programs.html
 
found some pics of the A-350 system
 

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Some more Soviet ABM projects:

S-550
Developed in 1981 in TSKB Almaz under the management of B.V. Bunkin and A.A. Lemanskogo. Point defence ABM system based on S-225 (ABM-X-3) to protect important targets.

A-235
Designed in 1986 by NPO Vympel as a third-generation Moscow ABM system (apparently a follow-on to A-35 and A-135).

Program NIER-810
Mobile non-strategic antimissile system studied in 1991-1995. With 38N6 mobile multifunctional radar and 45T6 missile.

Sources:
http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen/russia/rocket/rocketcomplex/data/ic_nomenrussiarocketrocketcomplex/1
http://forums.airbase.ru/2007/10/t57872--Poslednie-shedevry-Lemanskogo.8770.html

I remember SOC once said in another forum he had seen an image of a Russian mobile phased array ABM radar proposal. I think it probably was the 38N6, so if you or someone else finds any images of it that would be appreciated.
 
Here's a video report about Putin's visit to the Avangard missile plant last year, toward the end there's a detailed view of a 51T6 missile including its first stage:

http://www.1tv.ru/news/polit/125331

If only we'd see similar footage of the 53T6, by now we've seen enough 51T6 pics to last us a lifetime :-\

As for the mobile ABM radar, could this be it? Sort of a Green Pineski.
 

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That's it, the MARS radar. The image I saw was different but it's the same radar. A concept at this stage I think, likely for the S-500.
 
some 51T6 screenshots. note that first stage is missing some pretty much part of it
 

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More fascinating stuff, including Terra-3 ruines, is here http://www.olgino.info/index.php?ind=reviews&op=entry_view&iden=36
 

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Thanks to all for the replies. If the Mars radar is a concept for the S-500 it might not be the 38N6 but perhaps a derivative? And - the "SKY WATCH" phased array radars aboard the Gorshkov and Kuznetsov carriers were designated Mars-Passat - coincidence?

More fascinating stuff, including Terra-3 ruines, is here http://www.olgino.info/index.php?ind=reviews&op=entry_view&iden=36

Unfortunately it seems the S-225 test areas are still off-limits. Or then nothing remains there anymore.
 
Some interesting stuff probably, haven't had the time to wade through it yet:

An article on the mysterious Neman radar at Sary Shagan:

http://www.vko.ru/DesktopModules/Articles/ArticlesView.aspx?tabID=320&ItemID=285&mid=2892&wversion=Staging

Another on the Volga BMEWS in Belarus:

http://www.vko.ru/DesktopModules/Articles/ArticlesView.aspx?tabID=320&ItemID=232&mid=2892&wversion=Staging

Finally, some kind of report about S-300PMU2 testing:

http://www.vko.ru/DesktopModules/Articles/ArticlesView.aspx?tabID=320&ItemID=280&mid=2891&wversion=Staging
 
I'm working on a huge update to my ABM article, does anyone what a sub-scale HEN HOUSE looking radar system might be for?
 
Interesting stuff, I wonder how effective these would have been if the nukes started flying.

Considering the past use of ABM systems with nuclear warheads, why does Ground Based Interceptor use a kinetic energy kill mechanism? Wouldn't a nuclear weapon be more likely to succeed?

Is the GBI program going ahead or was it all canceled by the Dear Leader.
 
I thought I read/heard somewhere that GBI was being mothballed, with the silos in Alaska deactivated, but I can't find any such reference now.
 
What I heard was that no more would be built and the 2-stage Euro version would be cancelled. Hadn't heard about them shutting down Greely but given the current. . . .<muffle, muffle, muffle> :mad:
 
53T6 cutaway, A135 system launch silos reconstruction by DIMMI (www.http://militaryrussia.ru) with a little help of yours truly.
Sprint drawing used as spare parts.

Accordiing to those who saw real hardware, 53T6 looks pretty much close.

http://military.tomsk.ru/blog/topic-345.html
http://military.tomsk.ru/blog/topic-350.html
 

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51T6 guts and nuts from Alexander Khoroshih (updated)
http://horoshih-aleksander.narod.ru/foto_protivoraket_51T6.html
http://horoshih-aleksander.narod.ru/IMG_1637.JPG
 
flateric said:
51T6 guts and nuts from Alexander Khoroshih (updated)
http://horoshih-aleksander.narod.ru/foto_protivoraket_51T6.html
http://horoshih-aleksander.narod.ru/IMG_1637.JPG
Hello!
You can read about russians ABM's rocket here:
System A-35:
B-1100/A-350T
A-350Gh/5V61/UR-96
System A-135:
51T6
Best regards, Aleksandr Khoroshih
 

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