SNCAN (Nord) 500 « Cadet » VTOL prototype

[MIRAGE 4000]

You could find in the last Le Fana de l'Aviation magazine the story of Nord Aviation VTOL programs
Many Thanks Jemiba ....

Soon :

SO 4060
Sud Cyclone
Mirage Mach Mach 4

 

[Antonio]

Superb article!. I just received my suscriber copy today.
Drawings from Jemiba are a nice surprise. Just a little criticism if I'm allowed: it is a little difficult to understand the complicated wing layout in the Nord Rocade and Grand Rocade. I miss a plant drawing :'(


Cheers
Antonio

 

[MIRAGE 4000]

Some drawings were cut (8 pages, no more ! :-\)... If Jemiba could publish them here, it will be good ...

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Jemiba is of course welcome to post them. Indeed, since some minor upgrades were done, even large images seem to be working fine now.

 

[Archibald]

SO 4060
Sud Cyclone
Mirage Mach Mach 4

sud Cyclone ? you mean the Tsiklon, Super Vautour for Israel circa 1965 ???!!!!!! Great news!

 

[MIRAGE 4000]

We found new information on Sud Aviation Cyclone program. It was proposed to the Armée de l'Air (with the Northrop F-5 in the ECAT program) in 1965 (and for Israel and South Africa). But first : the SNCASO SO 4060 (the first "Super Vautour").

 

[Archibald]

To South Africa ? I understand better... the aim was to chage the Vautour into a kind of "french Buccaneer".
I've noticed for a long time how these two aircrafts are (were ?) similar in concept and performances... and they were pushed aside by supersonic bombers, in the form of Mirage IV and TSR-2...
Main difference is the fact that the Buccaneer received better engines and electronics, and lasted until 1995, when the Vautour was never upgraded and withdrawn in the late 70's... :'(

Mirage mach 4, SO-4060, Tsiklon... that's really exciting !!!

 

[Archibald]

Mirage 4000, can you introduce yourself ?
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,12.msg17770.html#new

 

[SmithW6079]

Thanks for all the great drawings. I'll pass along a couple websites as my contribution to this topic.

http://www.aiaa.org/tc/vstol/unbuilt/

For Nord 500 pics and models, do the following:
1) Click on Unbuilt V/STOL Aircraft folder
2) Click on France subfolder
3) Click on Nord Aviation subfolder

Needless to say there are literally hundreds of other pictures on this website, it's one of my favorite V/STOL sites. The second site contains info on French, German, and Italian projects.

http://www.vstol.org/

Click on V/STOL Encyclopedia to download the PDF files. Pity they never released the UK concepts PDF.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

The people behind those sites are on this forum

 

[Jemiba]

"Is it me or do the fans appear to be significantly off centerline ?"

You're quite right, I think, but I've based my drawings on the given artist's
impressions , you can find by following SmithW6079s link.
I have just three explanations :

- I've underestimated the perspective distortion, but althougth the model seems
to show a higher sweep angle of the fin, than the artist's impresion, the
longitudinal position of the ducted fans seems to be more or less the same

- The N.500 militaire would have used significantly more powerful and heavier
engines, located in the rear fuselage, which demanded a more backwards
position of the fans.

- The model was just intended to show the possibilities of producing an attack
version of the basic N.500 and isn't really a dedicated design. that could perhaps
explain the striking similarity of the forward fuselage with the AH-1 Huey Cobra

 

[SmithW6079]

:-[ I'm terribly sorry, I didn't even realize that Secret Projects members were behind those sites. And here I thought I had made a nice contribution. I'll keep trying...

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

No worries, you weren't to know. BTW, the UK stuff does exist, even if it isn't posted online.

 

[MIRAGE 4000]

interesting, the military Nord 500 (and Nord VTOL military project) were launched by the Centre d'Evaluation et de Prospective, wich launched another research programs in the 60 (as the Dassault Mach 4 fighters). The CEP was the "Rand institute" for the French army.

 

[brunobardini]

Hello,
I'm searching the number or the cover of "the fana de l'aviation" of the story of NORD-AVIATION you've speaking can you help me.
Thank' a lot

 

[Antonio]

Bruno,

this is what you're looking for:

http://boutique.editions-lariviere.fr/site/anciens-numeros-le-fana-de-l-aviation-n-452-2184-2-6.html


(Note: I removed your email address to save it from spammers)

 

[brunobardini]

Thank's for the adressees misters!
I've just bought it,and i think now! the most difficult thing is going to find cockpit images.
It's really hard to find them!
Probably to the Bourget documentation service.
If i find, i will send you them
See you soon in this amazing site
Best regards from Marseille France

 

[MIRAGE 4000]

try EADS archives ....

Aerospatiale Matra patrimoine d'EADS association. They have some archives on Nord VTOL projects.

 

[Stargazer]

If you guys are patient... I have a job acquaintance who has reached the age of retirement, but he will continue to work as a part-time librarian (they can't afford full-time!!) at the Musée de l'Air et de l'Espace du Bourget! Within a few months, I should be able to ask him for access to various documents. I will make photocopies, and if it's not possible I'll use a digital camera. Make sure to PM me as to what exactly you would like me to look for in the museum's archives!

 

[brunobardini]

hello every body,
I would like to make a scrath model of the nord 500 cadet or the aérospatiale N 500.
Does some body have plans executionplans or the most important thing the canopy to make a rel model.
I thank you in advance.
best regards

 

[Justo Miranda]

Sorry
I do not have anything better :-\

 

[Stargazer]

Bruno, didn't take the time to write back, but of course... when I finally can have access to the archives at the Musée de l'Air et de l'Espace, I'll make it known on this forum and the Nord 500 can be a very interesting way to get started there!!

 

[AeroFranz]

Sorry
I do not have anything better :-\

Justo, you are the victim of your own success! you have accustomed us to posts with cutaways, three views, detailed views, inboards and all sorts of goodies

 

[Rickshaw]

Was there any technical reason why Nord abandoned their tilt-fan technology or was it a purely financial decision?

 

[Jemiba]

During the short time of test flying, there seem to have been problems
with the flight control system, leading to severe instability. Maybe those
problems were more difficult to sort out with the then current technology,
than expected.

 

[MIRAGE 4000]

The Nord 500 can flight ... at only one meter of altitude

Too much in the future in the 60'

 

[brunobardini]

Hello every body in this forum,
thank's for your answers, probably if i don't found i probably touch contacts to french historian conservators to have only a canopy photograph for the problem we talk ( instability and ergonomic solutions)
to change rule(take off to translation and gestion of it and by what? at first, and in a second time a depicted plan and of the two allisons position and transmission so we have a part of it in the french patent.
VAK 191 solutions, coléoptère c_450snecma solutions, dassault balzac and III V solutions.
Same flight and different solutions of take off and rule translation.
Some body in France have this information and don't use.
The goodest way is not for me BOURGET MUSEUM but AEROSPATIALE ARCHIVES who are very difficult to contact.I'm trying now.

Another solutions is to contact all the "AILES ANCIENNES" associations every where in FRANCE.
These are good informations for us to write to them.
SEE you SOON

 

[brunobardini]

in fact i have this images and for a scratch modeler it's too small.

 

[Jemiba]

On http://forums.x-plane.org you can find the Nord 500 for MS-FS, so
someone already built it as a virtual model. Maybe it would be worth to contact
this one ?

 

[brunobardini]

I've tryed already to contact him.3 or four times
He just want to to have a free site, i think.
So his informations and his canopy is probably wrong this site is made for the players not for historians and never for modellers and persons very found of VTOLS systems.
The goodest way for me is "aérospatiale archives".
Or surely the old persons(now) who work on this projects in "ailes anciennes"
Your informations and this site are amazing and we are lucky already.
It's really interesting to see whow the informations are difficult to have.
I'ts the same thing for all the VTOL research.
It's surely because the VTOLS programs are restarted in others countries and aviation history is not really important for every body only for us!
3D vtol and hyper-maneuverability are the futur in earth and space that's why probably!

 

[Stargazer]

http://www.stormingmedia.us/cat/sub/subcat216-12.html

French Nord Aviation VSTOL Aircraft
31 JAN 1969
Authors: H. A. Smith
OFFICE OF NAVAL RESEARCH LONDON (UNITED KINGDOM)

The full text of this report is not available and therefore is not for sale. This information is provided for reference purposes only.

The memorandum discusses problems encountered by NORD in their development of a ducted fan VTOL research aircraft, N500. A serious financial shortage must be resolved if the program is to continue into the VTOL flight phase. A proposed follow-on VTOL aircraft N501 also is discussed. NORD work on the N510/511 flying observation platforms also is reported. (Author)

The sentence in red particularly caught my attention. Anyone heard of these proposed observation variants?

 

[Caravellarella]

Dear Boys and Girls, here is a contemporary article in French about the fascinating SNCAN Nord 500 Helcade and potential derivatives of this shrouded-propellor VTOL/ADAV concept......

The article comes from the 1st April 1968 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Jemiba]

Thanks for those scans, especially the artist impression of the military version
of the N.500 is really interesting, as it shows, what appears to be quite a good
side view.
BTW, as far as I know, the Nord 500 was named "Cadet". The name "Helcade was
given to a passenger aircraft, its size between the Nord 501 and the "Rocade". Never
seen any type numbers for those derivatives of the basic principle.

 

[Caravellarella]

Thanks for those scans, especially the artist impression of the military version
of the N.500 is really interesting, as it shows, what appears to be quite a good
side view.
BTW, as far as I know, the Nord 500 was named "Cadet". The name "Helcade was
given to a passenger aircraft, its size between the Nord 501 and the "Rocade". Never
seen any type numbers for those derivatives of the basic principle.

Thank you Jemiba, my sources indicate that the SNCAN Nord 500 was originally named "Helcade" and I had always thought that "Cadet" was a nick-name. Here are some images of the Helcade mock-up from the 1965 Paris Salon......

The images come from the 1st July 1965 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Caravellarella]

Dear Boys and Girls; here is an extensive article in French about the SNCAN Nord 500 Helcade, the SNCAN Nord 510 VTOL platform and the shrouded lift propellor concept (hélice carénée) in general......

The article comes from the 1st May 1967 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Caravellarella]

Dear Boys and Girls; here is an early article in French about the SNCAN Nord 500 Helcade when it was still a "project"......

The article comes from the 15th March 1965 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Caravellarella]

Dear Boys and Girls; here is an article in French about a "project" for an armed gunship version of the SNCAN Nord 500 Helcade called Nord 501......

The article comes from the 15th October 1969 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Caravellarella]

Dear Boys and Girls, here is a contemporary article in French about the SNCAN Nord 500 Helcade; then still a "project" and the potential transport derivative SNCAN Nord Rocade "project". The text of the article is incomplete in the original.....

The article comes from the 15th June 1965 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Caravellarella]

Dear Boys and Girls, here is a picture of the prototype SNCAN Nord 500 Helcade under construction; so it is no longer a "project" by this stage......

The picture comes from the 15th February 1967 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Stargazer]

I think it's the same pic you posted in Reply #62 from a different issue of Aviation Magazine...