dragon72 said:I actually found an illustration of the XH-59B in 'Warplanes of the future' by Bill Gunston. If I only had a scanner.
fightingirish said:dragon72 said:I actually found an illustration of the XH-59B in 'Warplanes of the future' by Bill Gunston. If I only had a scanner.
Moose said:Somewhat interesting "race" developing here. The Army wants another Scout sooner than X2 will be ready, but would also like something like X2 rather than just a new, more expensive Kiowa. So will they press ahead with Kiowa replacement as a priority now, or will they grit their teeth, keep the old birds in the air for another few years, and buy Raider (or something like it) "off the shelf" after Sikorsky has it flying?
yasotay said:
Stargazer2006 said:The Piasecki tail unit has been successfully fitted and flown on the Blackhawk as the X-49 Speedhawk. Projects using Cobras and other platforms exist. I guess it wouldn't be so difficult to adapt the technology to an existing type and recondition a few dozens of airframes until X2 is ready — which should be 2025, if memory serves.
TomS said:Stargazer2006 said:The Piasecki tail unit has been successfully fitted and flown on the Blackhawk as the X-49 Speedhawk. Projects using Cobras and other platforms exist. I guess it wouldn't be so difficult to adapt the technology to an existing type and recondition a few dozens of airframes until X2 is ready — which should be 2025, if memory serves.
The Army says Kiowa "becomes obsolete" in 2025 (many woudl argue that it's already obsolete, but that's a separate issue).
S-97 is supposed to fly in 2013 or 2014, which is also when AAS is suppose to be awarded. You'd really want the replacement to start entering service before the outgoing aircraft is totally obsolete. But assuming S-97 as AAS stay mostly on schedule, you could see the design transition to Army development in maybe 2016-17. With luck. they could start limited fielding around 2025. But the Army's track record isn't encouraging...
Moose said:Well it really depends on what direction the "interim" AAS goes. Right now they've made no commitment to actually buy any, the "fly-off" is part of their ongoing evaluations. If, after looking at the competitors they decide to SLEP the Kiowas, or go with the slightly more expensive F-model upgrade, its a fairly logical move to keep the fleet going until X2 is ready. If they buy a non-Kiowa, though, and call it a bridge to the next generation there will be a lot of people wondering about their sanity.
For what its worth, I think Sikorsky and the Army could get Raider AAS operational by 2020 if they leaned into it.
From what I have heard, USSOCOM about did hand-stands when they saw the concept, and are making "we'll buy it if it works!" type promises to Sikorsky. It certainly looks like the sort of platform the Night Stalkers would love.yasotay said:There is no guarantee that there will be a contract award from the fly off this year... if it happens.
Someone wants S-97 or UT would not be dropping the bucks. Cannot see anyone going down the F-20 Tigershark road again with tight budget.
I just posted to that effect yesterday in the 747 thread. Calling a design 'interim' or 'stopgap' is really just asking it to end up as your finalized flagship design, so do it right the first time.F-14D said:The danger of an "interim" bird is that it can end up being your "final" bird, witness the F/A-18E/F.
the forward gear method had worked well for current US helicopters (H-60 and AH-64). Distributing the impact energy of a crash sequence across the width of the airframe versus a single post point of previous layout would seem smart to me. I also agree that the gear weight being closer to the CG is better as well.Mark Nankivil said:Would the "new" landing gear arrangement be more stable on the ground? I would think the gear weight closer to the CG is a benefit and the weight saving over the trike is a plus.
Thanks for the link - will check in there regularly.
Enjoy the Day! Mark
Moose said:Re-vamping the gear to incorporate a tail wheel also reduces the risk of a tail fan strike. That fan is big and closer to the ground than a typical tail rotor.
tfbjwi said:Prototype flying by 2014. Operational by 2025. Really?! 11 years for operational development? The Army can't wait that long as the Kiowa's will have fallen out of the sky from age by then.
You know how many government agencies have their requirments that have to be met before an aircraft can be made operational? Then there are the competing Congressional delegations to be appeased and the competing services to overcome who have projects that make it redundant and useless. Check out the DoD regulations on acquistion if you want to see just how confusing it is.Stargazer2006 said:tfbjwi said:Prototype flying by 2014. Operational by 2025. Really?! 11 years for operational development? The Army can't wait that long as the Kiowa's will have fallen out of the sky from age by then.
I know. It sucks! But then again, think of the V-22 program. JVX design was frozen some time around 1982-83. Prototypes were flown in 1989, FSD phase took years more than expected, and as a result the fully operational variant, the MV-22B, didn't become operational until the late 2000s... I think that by announcing such a long development phase they are trying to play it safe to avoid that kind of scenario.
Stargazer2006 said:tfbjwi said:Prototype flying by 2014. Operational by 2025. Really?! 11 years for operational development? The Army can't wait that long as the Kiowa's will have fallen out of the sky from age by then.
I know. It sucks! But then again, think of the V-22 program. JVX design was frozen some time around 1982-83. Prototypes were flown in 1989, FSD phase took years more than expected, and as a result the fully operational variant, the MV-22B, didn't become operational until the late 2000s... I think that by announcing such a long development phase they are trying to play it safe to avoid that kind of scenario.
yasotay said:i missed the July S-97 update. If you watch at 1:37 you can see the aircraft structure as it looked earlier this year.
http://raider.sikorsky.com/program-updates.asp#!prettyPhoto/1/