Sikorsky S-97 Raider

[Scott Kenny]

Main problem will be cost, this things going to be a lot more pricey than a dolphin.

Speed costs.

Gets to the disaster sooner, and gets a couple injured folks back to hospitals faster.

How much is being able to get someone 100nmi off the coast to a hospital in one hour worth?

 

[bob225]

Speed costs.

Gets to the disaster sooner, and gets a couple injured folks back to hospitals faster.

How much is being able to get someone 100nmi off the coast to a hospital in one hour worth?

Yes these would be great as air-ambulances.

However in the UK all air ambulances are charity funded, buying / leasing and running these things is massively expensive, sadly i don't see it happening.

Get there quicker, yep, but 8/10 times the patients are transported to hospital by land ambulance, as you have more space, less noise and an extra pair of hands.

The main advantage of an air ambulance is the delivery of specialist care, depending on who's on-board. Could be an advanced Paramedic, and or a doctor. (if your really lucky you get a decent paramedic and an ED doc or even better an anaesthetist)

Heli-med normally have their own dispatcher watching calls, looking for ones they think may come their way. They may contact the ambulance crew to offer help, self deploy or be contacted by the ground team for help.

This or the 609 would be great in the wide open spaces of the US, it would get specialist help to remote patients etc much faster

Now coast guard / Search and rescue would be another option. fast transit to search / rescue and fast transport to hospital, that's where i'd aim my marketing.

UK SAR is now ran by Bristow, long transit times from a reduced number of bases with smaller choppers.

It'll come down to cost, politics and the lowest bider, sadly not what's best for the job.

 

[yasotay]

Speed usually only "buys" its way into a requirement if you expect the platform to routinely execute missions at distances of 100NM or greater. The U.S. Coast Guard did consider MV-22. It lost on two points. First, the downwash made it difficult to rescue people in the water. Second, plain and simple - cost. Without significant increase in budget it was unaffordable.
I recognize that an S-97 is not on par with a tilt-rotor, but it is much more complex than a conventional helicopter and heavier. It would cost more, especially if your organization was the original user introducing the platform, which the USCG has never been to my knowledge. Had the U.S. Army not bailed on the FARA program it is conceivable the USCG could have bought into the program for a Dauphin replacement, some two decades from now.

 

[H_K]

Had the U.S. Army not bailed on the FARA program it is conceivable the USCG could have bought into the program for a Dauphin replacement, some two decades from now.

There’s no way Raider could handle any SAR or Medical mission without designing a whole new and bigger aircraft… the cabin isn’t wide enough for stretchers and the access door is very small, ruling out hoisting operations.

If you want something for the USCG mission, Airbus has you covered with their Racer.

 

[VTOLicious]

Not to forget Raider is single engine.

 

[yasotay]

It is correct to say that a larger version of the Raider X would be needed for SAR duties and that the Prototypes were single engine. However, Airbus compounds, like X-2 has had a demonstrator only. I have no doubt that the Racer will demonstrate the expected performance. The USCG, has worked with Airbus for some time now. Assuming that Airbus can meet the price point of the USCG they would likely be a front runner. However if the cost is significant, I would not be surprised to see Leonardo making a compelling case for an existing platform.
I will say it is likely that the FARA program would have seen significant changes as a program. It would have needed extended distance to operate in the Pacific and therefore, over water. Both FARA teams had dual engine designs waiting for that possibility I am sure, especially since one of the senior Army Aviation officials publicly indicated that the single engine requirements were not tenable.
We will never know.

 

[RavenOne]

Half Of Night Stalker Black Hawks, Little Birds Replaced With High-Speed Types By 2030s

The Army's elite 160th SOAR is set for a major transition, but it will retain some MH-60s and AH/MH-6s for certain missions.

www.thedrive.com

Out of this SOF Week in Tampa, is the knock on effect from FARA cancellation that an A/MH-6 Little Bird replacement is not going to happen.

Little Bird helicopter replacement in question after Army cancels FARA

Current upgrades aim to keep the helicopter flying until 2034.

www.defensenews.com

cheers

 

[BlackBat242]

Had the U.S. Army not bailed on the FARA program it is conceivable the USCG could have bought into the program for a Dauphin replacement, some two decades from now.

The USCG got permission last year to transition to an all-H60 fleet.

Coast Guard takes next steps toward all MH-60T helicopter fleet

The Coast Guard received approval from the Department of Homeland Security on Oct. 31, 2023, to proceed with acquisition program activities that will continue to extend the service life of the

www.dcms.uscg.mil

The Coast Guard received approval from the Department of Homeland Security on Oct. 31, 2023, to proceed with acquisition program activities that will continue to extend the service life of the existing MH-60T fleet as well as begin the Coast Guard’s transition to a rotary wing fleet consisting of all MH-60T aircraft. The MH-60T Acquisition/Sustainment Program is authorized to: 

• Move to full rate production of newly manufactured hulls as part of the service life extension program (SLEP) for the existing MH-60T fleet. 
• Conduct Obtain Phase activities and execute low rate initial production of 12 aircraft that will transition three Coast Guard air stations currently operating with the MH-65 to the MH-60T. 

• Begin Obtain Phase activities for aircraft that will transition the remaining Coast Guard air stations to the MH-60T from the MH-65. 

Consolidation of the Coast Guard’s rotary wing fleet to a single MH-60T airframe is necessary to mitigate sustainability challenges with the MH-65 short range recovery helicopter and maintain the service’s rotary wing capability until recapitalization in line with the Department of Defense’s Future Vertical Lift program.
.....
The Coast Guard’s plan to organically grow the MH-60T fleet to at least 127 aircraft, referred to as fleet growth, will occur in two phases, using the same production activities completed in the SLEP. The first fleet growth phase, known as Increment 2 of the program, will organically produce 36 aircraft to convert eight air stations from MH-65 to MH-60T operations. The program has been authorized to produce the first 12 aircraft for this increment and will seek authorization from DHS to produce the remaining aircraft at a later date. Transition of the first air station under Increment 2 is expected to occur in summer 2024.

The air stations not transitioned to MH-60Ts under Increment 2 will be converted as part of Increment 3 of the program. The final air station transition is anticipated to occur in the early 2040s.

Coast Guard MH-65 Dolphin helicopters retired after 36 years of service in Alaska

The Coast Guard retired the Air Station Kodiak MH-65 Dolphin helicopter fleet during a ceremony, Tuesday.

www.news.uscg.mil

April 24, 2024
Coast Guard MH-65 Dolphin helicopters retired after 36 years of service in Alaska

D17 Public Affairs

KODIAK, Alaska – The Coast Guard retired the Air Station Kodiak MH-65 Dolphin helicopter fleet during a ceremony, Tuesday.
Capt. Timothy Williams, commanding officer of Air Station Kodiak, presided over the ceremony honoring the 36 years of service the MH-65 Dolphin airframe and its crews provided to the Arctic region.

Air Station Kodiak currently has a rotary-wing fleet of six MH-60 Jayhawk helicopters. The unit will shift to a rotary-wing ship-and-shore based fleet of nine MH-60 Jayhawks in 2025.

Air Station Kodiak will be the fourth Coast Guard Air Station to transition to a single rotary wing fleet of MH-60 Jayhawk helicopters. Air Stations Borinquen, Traverse City, and New Orleans all recently completed similar transitions.

There are currently 45 MH-60Ts in USCG service, the 82+ new ones will replace the current 98 MH-65Es.

 

[RavenOne]

The USCG got permission last year to transition to an all-H60 fleet.

Coast Guard takes next steps toward all MH-60T helicopter fleet

The Coast Guard received approval from the Department of Homeland Security on Oct. 31, 2023, to proceed with acquisition program activities that will continue to extend the service life of the

www.dcms.uscg.mil

Coast Guard MH-65 Dolphin helicopters retired after 36 years of service in Alaska

The Coast Guard retired the Air Station Kodiak MH-65 Dolphin helicopter fleet during a ceremony, Tuesday.

www.news.uscg.mil

There are currently 45 MH-60Ts in USCG service, the 82+ new ones will replace the current 98 MH-65Es.

Still think that is not good to have one single type in service, plus not even sure the MH-60T fleet can operate off the cutters as the MH-65E are.

But a Coastie S-97 / X2 tech would look good.



Or perhaps the Coasties should go back 2 and half decades revisit Deepwater and order AW609

IS there any light after darkness with the cancellation of FARA and X2 tech?

cheers

 

[TomS]

Still think that is not good to have one single type in service, plus not even sure the MH-60T fleet can operate off the cutters as the MH-65E are.

Both the Legend class (National Security Cutter) and Heritage class (Offshore Patrol Cutters) will be able to operate future MH-60Ts. Apparently at least some of the old Ts and all of the new ones are getting folding blades and tails. The old ones seem to be retrofitting those elements from surplus Navy SH-60s; new ones will presumably get those features as built.

Ex-Navy Helos Providing Folding Rotors, Tails for Cutter-Deploying H-60 Helos - Seapower

ARLINGTON, Va. — The U.S. Coast Guard is shifting the focus of some of its MH-60T Jayhawk helicopter fleet to use on board its large cutters and is using components from some ex-U.S. Navy H-60 Seahawk helicopters to make that...

seapowermagazine.org

https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2023/july/hand-me-down-helo-solution

MH-60T Service Life Extension Program

 

[Scott Kenny]

Still think that is not good to have one single type in service,

No, it's significantly cheaper to operate a minimal variety of types.

It's why the USMC is trying like hell to get to all F-35, their H1s have entirely the same dynamic components (and some airframe parts), and all the C130s are going to J models. Plus the Ospreys and King Stallions, of course.

If the V280 keeps Osprey engines, that's a further simplification of logistics.

But a Coastie S-97 / X2 tech would look good.


View attachment 728359

Yes, it is a sharp look.

Or perhaps the Coasties should go back 2 and half decades revisit Deepwater and order AW609

What mission would a tilt rotor take over?

Long range patrol from P3/C130s? Neither AW609 nor Osprey have the same range.

The obvious one is long range rescue, but Ospreys are a little too high downwash to hover over someone like a helicopter. I'm not sure about downwash velocity of an AW609.

 

[yasotay]

The U.S. Coast Guard has a pittance of a budget. H-60 pure fleet makes very good sense. One training program, one of the most robust helicopter logistic inventories that will be around for a very long time.

 

[TomcatViP]

And the risk of having the all fleet grounded at a single time...
Two different types can provide the redundancy to continue saving lives when an incident happens.

 

[HaveVoid]

Except for that in almost no instances are the two types co-based at a single location. So a grounding of one type would effectively shutter ops completely at the air stations which housed that type, while others would continue unimpacted.

Sure, assets could be moved, but when you think of Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, etc. the Coast Guard has a pretty large footprint.

The H-60 family is ubiquitous in U.S. military service, the odds of a fleet wide grounding have to be nearly zero.

 

[TomS]

Except for that in almost no instances are the two types co-based at a single location. So a grounding of one type would effectively shutter ops completely at the air stations which housed that type, while others would continue unimpacted.

Sure, assets could be moved, but when you think of Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, etc. the Coast Guard has a pretty large footprint.

The H-60 family is ubiquitous in U.S. military service, the odds of a fleet wide grounding have to be nearly zero.

Plus, most safety groundings have exceptions for mission essential/safety of life missions.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Plus, most safety groundings have exceptions for mission essential/safety of life missions.

They'll still do a risk analysis for those. "Is the likelihood of whatever caused this safety grounding happening to us on this flight high enough to warrant risking 4+ people?"

 

[yasotay]

@TomcatViP makes a sound mission effectiveness argument. Unfortunately, the OMB and Congress are focused on efficiency.

 

[Scott Kenny]

@TomcatViP makes a sound mission effectiveness argument. Unfortunately, the OMB and Congress are focused on efficiency.

The Coasties operated "pure" air detachments, though. Any given base would only have one type, so you'd still have that base down.