Shenyang FC-31 demonstrators / J-35 naval fighter / J-35A land-based version

snne said:
It's pretty subjective but this is my favorite looking 5th gen among all the in service jets and demonstrators that have been designed so far (besides the YF-23/F-23). It's like the F-35 but not so "fat", instead it's more "elegant".
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Dunno, looks like tadpole to me because of that.
Big big head.
 
zjz said:
I wonder if there is a S/TOVL version in parallel development .....
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Forget it ... never ever! How do you want to fit not only one but even more so two lift fans with/for two engines in that one? ;)
 
A STOVL fighter based on the J-35 would be unworkable, weight gain due to the two lift fans would only be the start of the problems for such a fighter.
 
zjz said:
I wonder if there is a S/TOVL version in parallel development .....
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Unlikely, any SVTOL version will means fundamental change in design.. like you cannot use current J-31/35 layout for SVTOL, those lift fans will cut through weapon bays. Wings have to accommodate pipes for the small diver thrusters like F-35B's.
 
snne said:
I feel like @paralay is secretly cooking something...


It's pretty subjective but this is my favorite looking 5th gen among all the in service jets and demonstrators that have been designed so far (besides the YF-23/F-23). It's like the F-35 but not so "fat", instead it's more "elegant".

It is also pretty interesting that, although there are some design (like the DSI or canted wing/stab edges for ex.) and size differences, Kaan and J-35 will end up looking pretty much alike from a distance due to a mixture of "F-35 and F-22-ish" design choices.

Also, although the IWB is not exactly the same as that of J-20 (as it's been speculated to be), it's pretty much close at least in terms of surface area so this enables commonality of carriable payload. Which is big for a bird of this size (KF-21/F-35/AMCA class).
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Yep it looks like a sleeker, slimmer F-35 not encumbered by the lift-fan - or the hole in place of it.
 
siegecrossbow said:
These photos are several years old. Apparently some geniuses are trying to force PLAN to display the planes at Zhuhai by demonstrating that they already have high def photos of multiple prototypes so there is no need for secrecy. Weird logic. Hopefully they don’t get invited for tea.
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That sounds closer to suggestive at best rather than forceing anything, beacuse really, there's aren't any consequences these guy could enforce on don't they? Either way, weird logic for sure.
 
Deino said:
Forget it ... never ever! How do you want to fit not only one but even more so two lift fans with/for two engines in that one? ;)
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FighterJock said:
A STOVL fighter based on the J-35 would be unworkable, weight gain due to the two lift fans would only be the start of the problems for such a fighter.
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Theoretically they could make it work if they somehow solve the gas-driven lift fan issues MDD/NG/BAE faced during JAST. If they could, they could configure it as single lift plus double lift and cruise with a single big GDLF fed from both engines.

Obviously, a more logical choice if they do want a STOVL fighter would be to develop a bespoke design, but at least there are candidate solutions that could make a double engined STOVL fighter possible.
 
There is a vicious rumor that real J-35 have performed touch and go on either the Liaoning or Shandong but details are scarce.
 
Maro.Kyo said:
Theoretically they could make it work if they somehow solve the gas-driven lift fan issues MDD/NG/BAE faced during JAST. If they could, they could configure it as single lift plus double lift and cruise with a single big GDLF fed from both engines.

Obviously, a more logical choice if they do want a STOVL fighter would be to develop a bespoke design, but at least there are candidate solutions that could make a double engined STOVL fighter possible.
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Twin engine failure modes make that very much a non-starter.
 
didn't know there's a carrier version of the L-15. I thought they were going with that J-7 based trainer. FTC-2000 was it?
 
helmutkohl said:
didn't know there's a carrier version of the L-15. I thought they were going with that J-7 based trainer. FTC-2000 was it?
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Actually I'm not sure if the JL-9G and the slightly improved GA was ever planned to operate off a true carrier. IMO they were at least in the end only used for take off and non-arrested landings.

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PS: the only one fitted with a hook was the prototype no. 423

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Therefore as it seems - and since the JL-9 is totally dated anyway - the PLAN decided to use the JL-10 for its next / or in fact first true carrierborne trainer named JL-10J:

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siegecrossbow said:
JL-9 has MIG-21 roots so low speed handling characteristics will never be as good as something like an L-15. This probably makes it less attractive for genuine carrier operations.
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I wonder why it was developed to begin with ? As a backup plan in case the naval development of the L-15 ran into serious difficulties ?
 
No significant difference here, both require immediate (automatic) ejection.
Also, while they weren't terribly successful, yak-38/38m/141 were 3-engined designs. It works.
 
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You have to hand it to the Soviet's at that time they did push the boundaries for STOVL technology enpecially with the YAK-141 supersonic STOVL fighter. Could China pull off the same thing? It remains to be seen, though the way that China are currently going I would not think that it would be beyond them.
 
Scott Kenny said:
But without an instant snap-roll to the dead engine, giving time to eject.
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Irrelevant factor. If you're that close to ground single engine is just as dangerous. Also, engines aren't mounted on wingtips but close to boresight centre axis.
 
Scott Kenny said:
But without an instant snap-roll to the dead engine, giving time to eject.
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Well, if fan fails f-35 will snap-roll forward instead.
Digital hover control+ automatic ejection at this stage control the issue, f-35 proven it quite well.

But it isn't related to fc-31 in any way.
We saw some patents for Chinese VTOL, it is in a completely different direction.
 
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Ainen said:
Well, if fan fails f-35 will snap-roll forward instead.
Digital hover control+ automatic ejection at this stage control the issue, f-35 proven it quite well.
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Yes, we've seen a couple of videos where that happened on F-35s.


Maro.Kyo said:
Irrelevant factor. If you're that close to ground single engine is just as dangerous.
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No, because the loss of one engine equals the loss of the aircraft in this case, twin engine VTOL is twice as likely to cause loss of aircraft. It's not P(losing both engines), which is P(lose engine)^2, it's 2*P(lose engine).
 
Scott Kenny said:
No, because the loss of one engine equals the loss of the aircraft in this case, twin engine VTOL is twice as likely to cause loss of aircraft. It's not P(losing both engines), which is P(lose engine)^2, it's 2*P(lose engine).
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The probability of engine failure can vary with design choices rather than being constant.. There's also whether the failure modes are common or independent e.g. separate SDLF within F-35 opens up new failure modes (e.g. FOD ingestion to fan) which impacts failure probabilities despite it being single engine.

Basically, you can take multiple approaches to get the same probabalistic safety target
 
Deino said:
Latest news, the J-31 will appear at Zhuhai in the flying display! (and allegedly the J-35A is the land-based variant)
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Well, if the "J-35A" is the land-based variant, (by this I guess you mean the base aircraft with shorter wingspan?) "J-31" Technically doesn't exists, right? That would mean that only the FC-31 and J-35 (of different variants) are real designations. Or did I understand you wrong?
 
Maro.Kyo said:
Well, if the "J-35A" is the land-based variant, (by this I guess you mean the base aircraft with shorter wingspan?) "J-31" Technically doesn't exists, right? That would mean that only the FC-31 and J-35 (of different variants) are real designations. Or did I understand you wrong?
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Yes, it seems, J-35 is the well known naval variant (catapult capable), J-35A is most likely what we called J-31 even if a J-31 was shown on several air shows (so maybe J-31 = export J-35A?) and FC-31 is - at least per my understanding - technically only correct for the two demonstrators.
 
Looks like it is one of the first production aircraft to be flown if it has no pitot tube. Is that true Deino?
 
So the combat jets on Chinese carriers will be a mix of J-15 and J-35 ? J-15 in the role of Superbug (missile and bomb truck) and J-35 as the F-35C ?
 
So how many J-35s would the PLAN purchase in that scenario siegecrossbow? Especially since it might be more expensive than the J-15 variants.
 

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