Shenyang / Chengdu "6th Gen" Aircraft - News and Analysis

[4decaa]

Well, I think we can put the notion of a DSI on the J-XDS to rest. Looks similar to F22 BLCS on the inside of the intake in lieu of any physical diversion system. YF23 BLCS also uses the same design principle, but is surely less advanced than these two.

 

[Hanse]

 

[Sundog]

I noticed the starboard ventral weapons bay has a sawtooth edge, but not the port side. Software or lens distortion?

My guess is the serrated edge bay is an actual weapons bay for testing and the other bay is probably being used for flight test equipment. Production aircraft would revert to having both as weapons bays.

 

[totoro]

Why does f22 need both a splitter for intake lip and an internal bleed system?

 

[paralay]

Short-range missile placement option

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

My guess is the serrated edge bay is an actual weapons bay for testing and the other bay is probably being used for flight test equipment. Production aircraft would revert to having both as weapons bays.

Or its an AI scaling artifact.

 

[NikolasTz]

Short-range missile placement option

If it really is as your plan shows, it's a pretty smart space-saving solution.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Short-range missile placement option

Reloading that may not be fun if the bay doesn't have a trapeze, but it definitely works.

 

[gyavolo]

Short-range missile placement option

They miscalculated the length of the missile, so they had to add a bulge to fit? I doubt it. Internal gun there might be a better guess, but it looks like there is not enough space with the wheel retracted. Or is it? I'd say this is probably some kind of ECM/RWR antenna, datalink maybe or something like that.

 

[Nart]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1914923785012052241

View: https://x.com/Clay_PLAPAP/status/1914923785012052241

 

[bobbymike]

A lot of manoeuvring in birds and bats is done through wing tip deflection, with the tail being used more often in a role similar to that of flaps (trim and lift control). There are exceptions of course, here you can see the tail being used sometimes to deal with a cross-wind:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJff3J_9jVs


Overall though tails are flat (i.e. oriented like a horizontal stabiliser) and integrated into the trailing edge of the wing. So, they'd be classified as tailless design with some polymorphic abilities.

It is worth noting that long tailed versions of birds, bats, and pterosaurs are all well documented, but they were eventually replaced by tailless lineages.

Not directly comparable to aircraft, but I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a reason for this that also applies to some types of aircraft in the future. Look at the amount of weight the active controls the Boeing Spanloaders would have required in the 1970s, now look at the weight of modern computers and the ability to do things like have distributed airflow sensors... there are a lot of technological limitations against distributed lift designs which are increasingly being overcome.

I’m no aerodynamicist but don’t really think you can compare birds to aircraft at all in this particular way.

The amount they can twist and bend and flex their wings in flight is outside any comparison to rigid wings and flaps, etc. IMO.

 

[The K2]

They miscalculated the length of the missile, so they had to add a bulge to fit? I doubt it. Internal gun there might be a better guess, but it looks like there is not enough space with the wheel retracted. Or is it? I'd say this is probably some kind of ECM/RWR antenna, datalink maybe or something like that.

I have to agree. Not enough space for a missile without making it a contortion act. Was looking at photos of the J-31 and J-35, no side weapons bays. It seems Shenyang stays away from them (at least for now).

 

[Scott Kenny]

I have to agree. Not enough space for a missile without making it a contortion act. Was looking at photos of the J-31 and J-35, no side weapons bays. It seems Shenyang stays away from them (at least for now).

And I'd honestly expect 6th generation aircraft to very rarely carry short range AAMs, designing bays around BVRAAMs that are roughly AMRAAM sized.

 

[Halcyon66]

New Views Of China's Next Generation Fighters

We are seeing increasingly detailed imagery of Beijing's two new stealth fighter designs as other potential curious fighter-like objects have emerged out of China.

www.twz.com

Regards,

 

[mokahete]

So I'm confused.
Why do next generation of fighters don't need to carry WVR missiles?
Given they are stealth, tracking and even detecting them(using x band) at distances more than wvr will be hard.

 

[Geo]

So I'm confused.
Why do next generation of fighters don't need to carry WVR missiles?
Given they are stealth, tracking and even detecting them(using x band) at distances more than wvr will be hard.

Plus current practice from Ukraine, Israel or the Red Sea. SRAAMs are used to destroy small targets. And in the future, the sky will be teeming with small targets.

 

[Ainen]

And I'd honestly expect 6th generation aircraft to very rarely carry short range AAMs, designing bays around BVRAAMs that are roughly AMRAAM sized.

SRAAMs, apart from their direct purpose, are the best shot at active self defense.
Much more suitable than MRAAMs.

Plus current practice from Ukraine, Israel or the Red Sea. SRAAMs are used to destroy small targets. And in the future, the sky will be teeming with small targets.

For that they're too big an expensive still. This right now indeed rapidly emerges as the largest peacetime miscalculation of combat aviation.

Deployable FFAR-like pods for apkws seem to me to be the best and most achievable way.

 

[mokahete]

Plus current practice from Ukraine, Israel or the Red Sea. SRAAMs are used to destroy small targets. And in the future, the sky will be teeming with small targets.

Yeah small stealthy targets that will be hard to track at 30+ km even with large x band radars.
IRST/EOTS sensors can also be used, even if these subsonic small CCA emit way less heat than fighters, modern IR sensors should be able to track them at 40+km, given good environmental conditions and sun Is on your side.
Now BVR missiles will also be used
Especially when the main fighter jet is staying behind and using CCAs as sensor extenders.
But the importance of WVR missiles seems to be increasing, specially their insane kinematics.

 

[totoro]

So I'm confused.
Why do next generation of fighters don't need to carry WVR missiles?
Given they are stealth, tracking and even detecting them(using x band) at distances more than wvr will be hard.

because the plan is to have plenty of drones at the merge. so if WVR battles do happen, most are expected to be done by drones. This also address the stealth and tracking distances.
also because MRAAM is quite lethal from short distances as well. Sure, it might be overkill sometimes and it might not always work as well as a SRAAM, but in most cases it'll still get the job done. All the while, the plane doesn't need to get configured to use such a class of missiles. Which is a small issue, but nevertheless.

 

[Ainen]

I am still mildly looking forward to a moment, when someone will make an electric(hybrid) shahed on an automatic assembly line, shaped for no bullshit deep stealth without maintenance hatches at all.
No heat signature to speak of, radar signature several orders of magnitude below bird of prey.

Long range weapons...

 

[Galaxy]

Original, cropped.

View attachment 767713
Resize
View attachment 767714

It’s unique, it probably also has an extremely small RCS, but from this angle it’s got to be the ugliest aircraft ever built.

To me it looks like it has B-2/YF-23 style exhaust system with engines further forward. I also can’t make out any canopy bow, I just see what looks like a HUD that might be mistaken for one? Can’t tell with the angle and resolution. That would be pretty impressive if they managed to create a single piece canopy given the size and the strength needed sustain high speed impact and stress.

 

[Rhinocrates]

it’s got to be the ugliest aircraft ever built

There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion.

Francis Bacon, Essays Civil and Moral, 'Of Beauty.'

 

[Josh_TN]

So I'm confused.
Why do next generation of fighters don't need to carry WVR missiles?
Given they are stealth, tracking and even detecting them(using x band) at distances more than wvr will be hard.

I think the argument is that datalinked BVR weapons with HOB and active seeker heads can handle the rare instances of WVR engagements without compromising missile load with smaller munitions and smaller side bays that have rare use cases.

It was previously the case that getting a radar lock and firing a BVR AAM at a target required specific orientations and ranges, as well as time delays for creating a firing solution. IR guided WVR weapons had faster reaction times with less limitations on relative position and velocity (at close range). These weapons were mounted in side bays to allow the seekers to see targets on either side of the aircraft for lock on before launch. But if you can just look at a target and kick a BVR AAM onto it, with the missile locking on after launch, that removes a lot of need for separate missile types and dedicated bays.