SAAB Fighter / Attack projects

[rousseau]

We have already known what A.36 looks like. http://travels.larp.se/xplane/a36/a36.html
But we still lost 1300series, 1400series and some of 1500series. If you know any little information, please post here.
This thread for every one here,especially for Matej

 

[Matej]

1300 (1952): fighter and attack projects
1319 missile armed fighter with two de Havilland rocket engines,
1325 was a Draken replacement fighter with Gyron jets with partial afterburners on the wingtips and an (automatically starting in case of engine failure) rocket in the tail (the rocket motor is still in use on sounding rockets),
1350 was a larger attack variant of 1325, with full afterburners,
1352 single engine (Olympus) of 1350,
1372 was a an unstable double delta (not even a wind tunnel model),
1376 was the A 36,
1377 like 1376 but with dorsal air intake,
the "U-plan" was also in this series (a variable geometry turborocket submersible M 2 fighter
1400 (1955): Fighter and attack projects, often STOL or VTOL,
1410 was a STOVL fighter with afterburning nozzles in and as the flaps, also good for reversing, M 2+,
1421B was a M 2.8 Draken replacement in 1956
1443 a Mirage III (independently arrived at) lookalike with M 2.3
1500 (1958): STOL and VTOL projects which led to 37 Viggen
1500-01 pretty like a Harrier
1504 in 1961 looked very much like Viggen
1508A2
1534 became 37 Viggen,
1536 a VTOL Viggen

http://www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/aviation/text/saabcanc/saab-projects.html

To rousseau: some two hours remaining and I leave my home and country to visit Czech International Air Fest. So you wont see me during next days

 

[rousseau]

Are there any pix to show some of them above? Too abstructive for me with only words. :-\

 

[Antonio]

Are there any pix to show some of them above?

There is jewel from Tony Buttler on Air Enthusiast Nº90 (November-December 2000) on SAAB's Jet Fighter Projects with this drawings in the range of projects of your interest:

1325
1338
1350D
1357
1371D
1377A
1410
1560/61
1562
1563


Which do you want to see?

 

[rousseau]

Are there any pix to show some of them above?

There is jewel from Tony Buttler on Air Enthusiast Nº90 (November-December 2000) on SAAB's Jet Fighter Projects with this drawings in the range of projects of your interest:
1325
1338
1350D
1357
1371D
1377A
1410
1560/61
1562
1563
Which do you want to see?

ALL OF THEM!

 

[Antonio]

SAAB series 1300

 

[Antonio]

more SAAB series 1300

 

[Antonio]

SAAB series 1400

 

[Antonio]

SAAB series 1500

 

[raravia]

Wow!....a extraordinary designs Antonio.

You have an idea what shape had the wings of those projects?

As the majority of aircrafts of the 50´s were based on german layouts of WWII, I wonder if the swedens based his studies on germans too? because the Draken was an odd aircraft, i mean beautiful, and bizare in his concept, but definitively weird.

Raravia

 

[Matej]

Nice pictures. 1377A looks like Sea Dart. Good starting point to submersible fighter.

 

[elmayerle]

1377A definitely reminds me of a F-107. I'll be that'd be a good starting place for modelling it.

 

[JAZZ]

I have attached a drawing that I develped from a black-white line drawing of the Saab A-36 that I down loaded from a forum. I was convinced I down loaded it from this forum, but it apears not. Anyway for what its worth here it is.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Very nice drawing! Thanks for posting.

 

[Archibald]

That's gorgeous! The kind of pic which scream at you "you want to make a model of this plane, you want to make a model of this plane, you need a model of this plane" ;D

 

[JAZZ]

Ihave brought together alll the saab projects I have managed to get hold of via, JAWA, Air E, and here on the forum. I'm not sure

1. if I have them in the right order by date
2. if all these projects are in fact saab projects.
3. are there any missing?

 

[Justo Miranda]

I have found some material on the SAAB A36 nuclear bomber posted at
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1177.0/highlight,saab+a-36.html
that it may be of general interest

 

[Firefly 2]

Sweden had atom bombs?

Anyways, typicaly Swedish to find alternative roles for dedicated types.

 

[Jemiba]

Perhaps it's a bit of irony, that one of the strongest advocats for a swedish
nuclear armament was ... Olof Palme !

 

[Justo Miranda]

I have found some material on SAAB projects
Unknown sources

 

[JAZZ]

Thanks - nice find I will have to render one or two up for fun

 

[JAZZ]

TPT Render

 

[JAZZ]

RX2 render

 

[Justo Miranda]

From AR french magazine 25-1-55, also in Flying Review unknown date.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Any dimensions or other data?

 

[Justo Miranda]

Any dimensions or other data?

I am afraid not.
I do not have any.

 

[Rafael]

Is this the Lildraken? (not sure if spelled like that)

Rafa

 

[Justo Miranda]

Is this the Lildraken? (not sure if spelled like that)

Rafa

Lildraken is a prototype named SAAB 210

 

[Matej]

WOW! It's a hot candidate to make at least simplified color 3 view.

 

[Antonio]

According to the text it should be a derivative from that 210 project. It is a really interesting that tiny fighter, I imagine it should act as a point defence interceptor. ???

(It looks like that Vipers from "Galactica")

 

[Orionblamblam]

According to the text it should be a derivative from that 210 project.

Does the text indicate that the drawings are actually Saab... or is it the magazines hypothetical reconstruction of what they *think* such a fighter might look like?

 

[Antonio]

The text below the drawings in file "Escanear0003" says:

"A Sweedish magazine has published recently the sketches, shown above, which should depict the fighter derivated from SAAB 210 Draken. Should be talking about the J-51..."

I hope translation from French to English (via Spanish in my brain) could be precisse enough.

Regards,

Antonio

 

[Justo Miranda]

The text below the drawings in file "Escanear0003" says:

"A Sweedish magazine has published recently the sketches, shown above, which should depict the fighter derivated from SAAB 210 Draken. Should be talking about the J-51..."

I hope translation from French to English (via Spanish in my brain) could be precisse enough.

Regards,

Antonio

Just to confirm that the translation by Antonio is correct.
I have sent a message to IPMSStockholm asking about this airplane.

 

[Orionblamblam]

"A Sweedish magazine has published recently the sketches, shown above, which should depict the fighter derivated from SAAB 210 Draken. Should be talking about the J-51..."

Hmmm. Leaves the question open... are these Saab drawings that the Swedish magazine published... or, like "Flight," did the Swedish magazine have their own artists?

 

[Justo Miranda]

The Armstrong Siddeley Adder engine measures 73,3 in. (1862 mm.) lenght and 28 in. (711 mm.)
diameter.
The m/39A machineguns 1450 mm.(not to scale in 3 views drawing)
By comparison ,approximate measures of the SAAB-51 are:
Wingspan :3,3 m.
Lenght :3,84 m.
Height :1,3 m.
No place for conventional SAAB Type1/21 ejection seat

 

[Antonio]

Leaves the question open...

I agree. According to the text it's impossible to confirm 100% wheter it is or not a real SAAB design.

 

[Antonio]

Michael,

This evening I'm going to do some reseach, we'll see if I can add some light to that mistery...

 

[Justo Miranda]

Lildraken variant

 

[Justo Miranda]

The Adder engine

 

[Antonio]

Yesterday I was reading "Secret SAAB Projects": Tony Buttler's article about SAAB unbuilt fighters on Air Enthusiast No 90

SAAB effort for a Mach 2 fighter began in 1949 into the 1200 series designation. Early work was based on J-32 derivatives with more power.

Project 1210: rocket powered
Project 1220: supersonic radically modified J-32 derivatives
Project 1230: no data available
Project 1240: no data available
Project 1250: double delta concepts

J-35 evolved from Project 1250 research

Aside from that pic you shown labeled c.jpg, there two more similar Project 1250 designs at AE No90. That J-51 is a bit different from P-1250 concepts. J-51 is also twin engined while the rest have a single engine. It seems to be a rather tiny engine type in the J-51. Not very logical in my opinion, but beware I'm not an engineer.

Conclusion: I can't say if J-51 was a real project, but I have doubt's about its autheticity. Maybe Tony Buttler could add something?


BTW: J-51 doesn't fit too much with Flygvapnet number series. The contemporary Draken was J-35, while the much later Viggen was "37" and Gripen is "39". Following the sequence I imagine that J-51 is expected to be used for some Flygvatnet frontline fighter in a distant future.

Regards

Antonio