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Russian jet collides with U.S. Reaper drone over Black Sea - drone crashes
- Thread starter njiiaf
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F.L.
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Not so much forgetting, but getting so used to it we've become numb.Is everyone forgetting the first time we saw the Su-27?
Accidentally damaging propellers when flying too close is a speciality of the Flanker
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A bit OT but this is a really good reality check on some media and analysis coverage of the war.
www.forbes.com
Just As In 2022, Defeatist Media Coverage Comes Before Ukraine Counterattacks
A spate of gloom-and-doom over Ukraine's battlefield prospects mirror gloomy coverage from a year ago—just before Ukraine went on the offensive.
www.forbes.com
kaiserd
I really should change my personal text
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And at that time did anyone credible suggest/ believe that Flanker pilot intentionally rammed that P-3?
The "1968 Essex Incident" may prove relevant and instructive: acting the fool in a military aircraft can lead to permanently unfortunate results.
View: https://twitter.com/USN_Submariner/status/1636399902128480256
Imagine if the Badger had hit the carrier. Woof.
View: https://twitter.com/USN_Submariner/status/1636399902128480256
Imagine if the Badger had hit the carrier. Woof.
Forest Green
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Apparently the drone has been found.
liveuamap.com
A US MQ-9 Reaper drone was found near Sevastopol at a depth of about 900 meters, ForPost was told by its own source close to the Russian Ministry of Defense and familiar with the details of the operation.
The forces of the Russian Navy are on duty in the area of the fall of the American military-intelligence apparatus. “An underwater robot descended to the bottom of the sea, which discovered the MQ-9 Reaper at a depth of about 850-900 meters. Not far from this zone is the deep-water branch of the South Stream gas pipeline," ForPost's source told ForPost.
Russian media ForPost reports Russian military undersea robot found MQ-9 Reaper near Sevastopol and near South Stream pipeline on the depth of 850-900 meters Black Sea - Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine Latest news on live map - liveuamap.com
Russian media ForPost reports Russian military undersea robot found MQ-9 Reaper near Sevastopol and near South Stream pipeline on the depth of 850-900 meters. Live Universal Awareness Map Liveuamap is a leading independent global news and information site dedicated to factual reporting of a...
liveuamap.com
A US MQ-9 Reaper drone was found near Sevastopol at a depth of about 900 meters, ForPost was told by its own source close to the Russian Ministry of Defense and familiar with the details of the operation.
The forces of the Russian Navy are on duty in the area of the fall of the American military-intelligence apparatus. “An underwater robot descended to the bottom of the sea, which discovered the MQ-9 Reaper at a depth of about 850-900 meters. Not far from this zone is the deep-water branch of the South Stream gas pipeline," ForPost's source told ForPost.
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aonestudio
I really should change my personal text
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Wow- I didn't realise they were so delusional
Another source for the footage above:
www.dvidshub.net
US Air Force MQ-9 camera footage: Russian Su-27 Black Sea intercept
Two Russian Su-27 aircraft conducted an unsafe and unprofessional intercept with a U.S. Air Force intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance unmanned MQ-9 aircraft operating within international airspace over the Black Sea on March 14, 2023. Russian Su-27s dumped fuel upon and struck the...
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But the Su-27 had not sent kerosene in the air inlets of the P-8.
- In the early 1960s the final U-2 overflight of the Soviet Union was planned under the code name Grand Slam.
The Pakistan-Norway nine hours flight was 3,800 miles long, with 2,900 miles over the Soviet airspace overflying Tyuratam, Chelyabinsk, Kyshtym, Sverdlovsk, Kirov, Severodvinsk, Kandalaksa, Murmansk, Polyarnyy and Bodo-Norway.
On May 1, 1960, one U-2 took-off from Peshawar at 6:26 AM, and once airborne the spy plane turned toward the Afghanistan border flying at 66,000 ft. (20,120 m).
The U-2 was spotted by Soviet radar over Afghanistan while it was still at fifteen miles of the USSR border.
An alert was called, all civilian airliners were grounded and all V-PVO airfields, SAM sites, radar stations and command posts over the southern Soviet Union were placed on full combat alert.
The U-2 was tracked by multiple PVO radars, thirteen fighters scrambled around Tashkent, and they carried out zoom-climb attacks in an attempt to catch the intruder despite the fact that experience had demonstrated that the MiG fighters were unable to intercept the U-2.
The intruder was lost on radar and reacquired over Tyuratam flying at 70,500 ft. (21,493 m)
Two MiG-19P fighters made an unsuccessful attempt to get into firing position, vectored by ground radar, but they could only ascend to 58,000 ft. (17,682 m).
The PVO staff predicting that the U-2 was heading toward Sverdlovsk, and all the SAM SA-2 sites of 4th Independent Army and the fighter units based in the area were instructed to down the intruder “whatever the cost”.
Captain Mentiukov, the pilot of one Sukhoi Su-9 Fishpot fighter that made a refueling stop at Kolcovo airfield, was ordered to intercept the U-2.
The Su-9 was in ferry configuration, it carried no air-to-air missiles, and none were available at Kolcovo, but Mentiukov received order to ramming the spy plane.
The mission was suicidal because the pilot did not have high-altitude pressure suit.
Instead of using the old Taran tactics, Mentiukov tried cutting the target trajectory and putting it out of control with the trail turbulence. This type of attack had been successfully used by a D.H. Mosquito FB VI of the 418th RAF Squadron to destabilize a V-1 flying bomb in June 1944.
The U-2 had to fly very near their never-exceeded speed and the margin with the stall speed at 70,000 ft. (21,341 m) was only 12 mph. Exceeding any of both limits could cause transonic airflow separation at the wings and structural damage.
The Su-9 was guided by ground control radar, but its zoom-climb attack was unsuccessful and overshot the target by 26,000 ft. (7,927 m).
The first salvo of SA-2 surface-to-air missiles failed because the U-2 was already out of range by the time the missiles reached its altitude.
When the intruder entered the engagement area of the next launch site at 08:36, only one SA-2 was fired due to fire control malfunction. At 70,500 ft. (21,493 m) over Sverdlovsk the missile warhead detonated near the U-2 damaging the tailplane. The aircraft was destabilized losing its wings due to the g-forces and the pilot Francis Gary Powers was captured, creating an international incident.
Meanwhile two MiG-19 P Farmer B fighters were airborne and approaching the engagement zone, but their IFF transponders did not work, and Lieutenant Safronov's plane was destroyed by the third salvo of missiles.
The incident was kept secret for many years.
The Pakistan-Norway nine hours flight was 3,800 miles long, with 2,900 miles over the Soviet airspace overflying Tyuratam, Chelyabinsk, Kyshtym, Sverdlovsk, Kirov, Severodvinsk, Kandalaksa, Murmansk, Polyarnyy and Bodo-Norway.
On May 1, 1960, one U-2 took-off from Peshawar at 6:26 AM, and once airborne the spy plane turned toward the Afghanistan border flying at 66,000 ft. (20,120 m).
The U-2 was spotted by Soviet radar over Afghanistan while it was still at fifteen miles of the USSR border.
An alert was called, all civilian airliners were grounded and all V-PVO airfields, SAM sites, radar stations and command posts over the southern Soviet Union were placed on full combat alert.
The U-2 was tracked by multiple PVO radars, thirteen fighters scrambled around Tashkent, and they carried out zoom-climb attacks in an attempt to catch the intruder despite the fact that experience had demonstrated that the MiG fighters were unable to intercept the U-2.
The intruder was lost on radar and reacquired over Tyuratam flying at 70,500 ft. (21,493 m)
Two MiG-19P fighters made an unsuccessful attempt to get into firing position, vectored by ground radar, but they could only ascend to 58,000 ft. (17,682 m).
The PVO staff predicting that the U-2 was heading toward Sverdlovsk, and all the SAM SA-2 sites of 4th Independent Army and the fighter units based in the area were instructed to down the intruder “whatever the cost”.
Captain Mentiukov, the pilot of one Sukhoi Su-9 Fishpot fighter that made a refueling stop at Kolcovo airfield, was ordered to intercept the U-2.
The Su-9 was in ferry configuration, it carried no air-to-air missiles, and none were available at Kolcovo, but Mentiukov received order to ramming the spy plane.
The mission was suicidal because the pilot did not have high-altitude pressure suit.
Instead of using the old Taran tactics, Mentiukov tried cutting the target trajectory and putting it out of control with the trail turbulence. This type of attack had been successfully used by a D.H. Mosquito FB VI of the 418th RAF Squadron to destabilize a V-1 flying bomb in June 1944.
The U-2 had to fly very near their never-exceeded speed and the margin with the stall speed at 70,000 ft. (21,341 m) was only 12 mph. Exceeding any of both limits could cause transonic airflow separation at the wings and structural damage.
The Su-9 was guided by ground control radar, but its zoom-climb attack was unsuccessful and overshot the target by 26,000 ft. (7,927 m).
The first salvo of SA-2 surface-to-air missiles failed because the U-2 was already out of range by the time the missiles reached its altitude.
When the intruder entered the engagement area of the next launch site at 08:36, only one SA-2 was fired due to fire control malfunction. At 70,500 ft. (21,493 m) over Sverdlovsk the missile warhead detonated near the U-2 damaging the tailplane. The aircraft was destabilized losing its wings due to the g-forces and the pilot Francis Gary Powers was captured, creating an international incident.
Meanwhile two MiG-19 P Farmer B fighters were airborne and approaching the engagement zone, but their IFF transponders did not work, and Lieutenant Safronov's plane was destroyed by the third salvo of missiles.
The incident was kept secret for many years.
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kaiserd
I really should change my personal text
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Which is more likely:
1) The Flanker pilot was going for the one combined “try to get the drone with my fuel dump but if I miss with the same manoeuvre I also expertly ram him very carefully in a way that does the very minimum damage to it required to take it down, but also does minimum damage to me that I survive relatively undamaged and with plausible deniability about intending/ not intending to ram it” manoeuvre, or
2) The Flanker pilot was intending to impact the drone with the fuel dump but made a mistake doing something he would almost certainly never really trained for and ended up actually hitting the drone.
If you honestly think it’s 1) then you need to take another look at your assumptions and yourself.
And the attempts by some here to draw misleading historical parallels are at best misguided and at worst may be being done in bad faith. The drone was not deep in Russian airspace and the Flanker pilots could have easily shot it down with their armament. If they wanted to ram it (which is highly unlikely) they would have and not aimed at a “lucky” clipping of a propeller blade.
The Russian fighters clearly meant to aggressively harass the drone and cause it difficulty (potentially even a failure/ loss) via behaviour like the fuel dumping. But it’s almost certain that a particular Flanker pilot ran out of talent and skill before he ran out of aggression and accidentally clipped the drone, rather than being ordered to do that. A theoretical order he likely wouldn’t have the training or skill to successfully deliver on if he had been given it.
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TriDefender
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Note that the USSR is always in difficulty to deal with the U2, unlike it's neighbour. Thanks to heave reconnaissance interest of the US over it's nuclear project, had developped a complex theory of SAM usage to effectively eliminate UAV and manned aircraft with ECM equipment. In both cases the ground fighters are unable to intercept U2, but the USSR SAMs have less success. The key of attacking a U2 with RWR and ECM is to exploit to the full advantage the ground guidance radar, update frequently the position, and only engage fire-control radar at the last second. This is why a total of 5 U2 are downed.
Look at this bird shooting lol.
To be precise, they still have a whole U2 in their military museum, but it's made from intact spare parts from FOUR individual aircraft.
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Two pilots get medals.
www.wionews.com
Russian defence minister awards pilots involved in downing of US drone over Black Sea
Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu, on Friday (March 17) awarded two pilots who were involved in intercepting a United States MQ-9 Reaper drone over the Black Sea amid Moscow’s ongoing “special military operation” in Ukraine This comes after the US has previously accused Russia of an...
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martinbayer
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Please point me to a credible established source of international law that supports the concept of Russia unilaterally imposing "international airspace restrictions" *outside* of its territorial waters and sovereign airspace. Sounds suspiciously like the illegal nine/ten/eleven-dash line scam China is busy trying to pull in international waters in the South China Sea...
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paralay
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paralay
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As the simulation showed, the goal is very difficult. Russian pilots showed the highest skill and deservedly received awards
TMA1
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Look up the pod that the drone is carrying. Ukraine was receiving intel and maybe even data for future targets in Crimea. As the neocons are insane and taking Crimea from the ruskies was always one of the master plans in this, I can see why ruskies took the drone down. I am disappointed to see usually very intelligent posters actually say Russia has no capability to shoot a drone down because it was rammed... this is the bizarre kind of ideological overreaching I have seen with enthusiasts and "paint experts". The drone was destroyed in a way to give plausible deniability to politicians and commanders while it is also used as a propaganda piece for the Russian population. The situation was obviously not appropriate for using surface to air or air to air missiles.
Forest Green
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It's not at all a sign of extreme desperation when you celebrate like the end of a Top Gun movie after downing a large unarmed RC plane.
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I think this is a little overblown as an event.
The purpose of dumping the fuel was most likely an attempt to impair the optical sensors. Obviously in an attempt to make this plan work (probably an ad hoc plan thought up by the pilots or ground controller) the pilot passed too close on his second attempt to get the fuel spray in the right place and clipped the drone. Facing an unmanned target there is a tendency to be less cautious.
In fact maybe some kind of aerobatic display 'smoke' pod might be more useful in this regard as that would be oilier and would stick better.
But it was also dumb to attempt it knowing that those same cameras you are trying to impair are actually recording and relaying your every move for the USAF to broadcast later on. It's like those 'World's Stupidest Criminal' clips you get from CCTV footage. (And probably shows that the Russians have no EW way to jam the satlink either, which would be cheaper and easier all round).
The purpose of dumping the fuel was most likely an attempt to impair the optical sensors. Obviously in an attempt to make this plan work (probably an ad hoc plan thought up by the pilots or ground controller) the pilot passed too close on his second attempt to get the fuel spray in the right place and clipped the drone. Facing an unmanned target there is a tendency to be less cautious.
In fact maybe some kind of aerobatic display 'smoke' pod might be more useful in this regard as that would be oilier and would stick better.
But it was also dumb to attempt it knowing that those same cameras you are trying to impair are actually recording and relaying your every move for the USAF to broadcast later on. It's like those 'World's Stupidest Criminal' clips you get from CCTV footage. (And probably shows that the Russians have no EW way to jam the satlink either, which would be cheaper and easier all round).
When clumsiness, incompetence and unprofessionalism are celebrated as skill, you know you've got problems.
The last three or four years have been jam-packed with not only "I didn't see that coming" but "I wouldn't have believed it if you'd told me." Using F-22's and half million dollar missiles to take out Wish.com balloons, and using SU-27 air superiority fighters to ram drones? Naw, those weren't on my bingo card.
Forest Green
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Or people living in holes being terrorised hobby drones.
Indeed. "A major power will decide to engage in World War One trench warfare and will get farked up by toys."
Nope. Didn't see *that* coming.
The matrix is getting *really* glitchy. I suspect it's due to all the new space telescopes, forcing the system to have to render higher detail further out. It just can't handle it, so reality is breaking down.
Temporarily locking thread to clean up
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