Royal Navy Type 26 Frigate

Yellow Palace said:
It seems that at depth, Spearfish loses speed, while Mk 48 loses endurance.

Looks like 12.5nm at 80 knots (the 14 mile figure is statute miles), but that checks out. The corresponding figure for a Russian 65-76 torpedo, which can do 50km at 50 knots, is 27,300 yards. A more complete analysis would involve looking at no-escape zones, of course.
Click to expand...
I think they double converted. 26km converts to 14nm. Likely they took a 14nm figure, thought is was miles and converted it to nm again. A Type 65 is several times the size (10,000lb vs 4,000lb), so not directly comparable.

Yellow Palace said:
Interestingly, the crossover point between the two settings for Spearfish is 45 knots. Above that speed, the low-speed setting gives a longer engagement range; above it, the high-speed setting. The existence of such an extreme high-speed setting implies that the Royal Navy was concerned about targets (i.e. submarines) moving very quickly indeed. For the Mark 48, the corresponding speed is 21 knots.

On a slightly more absurd note, if you can get a 30 degree up angle on a Spearfish and broach the surface, it might reach an altitude of 70 feet or so. That's high enough to offer a theoretical anti-helicopter capability. Totally impractical, of course. But amusing to think about.
Click to expand...
:D I guess that would stop the commander having to get out on deck with a MANPADS like on The Wolf's Call.
 
Thanks, everyone!

Yellow Palace said:
On a slightly more absurd note, if you can get a 30 degree up angle on a Spearfish and broach the surface, it might reach an altitude of 70 feet or so. That's high enough to offer a theoretical anti-helicopter capability. Totally impractical, of course. But amusing to think about.
Click to expand...
The Torpedo Museum at Keyport, WA has a great picture of a torpedo that had decided that the hovering helicopter was a good target and is coming out of the water about double the torpedo's length. It's been long enough now since I've been there that I don't remember if that was a Mk46 or a Mk48.
 
Yellow Palace said:
If you believe the Mk 48 needs to be inside 5,400 yards to kill a SEAWOLF - and that implies some rather implausible performance - then a Spearfish can do it at 10,000 yards. Or 24,000 yards if you believe the 80 knots/60,000 miles figure. Spearfish is good, but it's not that good.
Click to expand...
Rumors say ~45knots and very quick acceleration to that speed. 57khp and a propulsor that basically doesn't cavitate so you don't lose any of that hp to bubles.
 
Steel has been cut for the first Canadian Type 26 derivative, now called the River-class destroyer. There are some updates from the original design for the Canadian navy. Here's an overview.

www.navylookout.com

A guide to the future Canadian Surface Combatant – the River-class destroyers | Navy Lookout

www.navylookout.com www.navylookout.com

The River-class share the British-designed hull form and propulsion of the Type 26 but almost entirely different weapons, sensors and combat system have been selected by the Canadians. At its heart, fighting capability is based on the US AEGIS Combat Management System. [...] The selection of SPY-7 will allow the ships to integrate with the North American Aerospace Defence Command (NORAD) which coordinates continent-wide air surveillance. CEC will also provide seamless integration with USN operations – an important force multiplier that the RN has aspired to in the past but has been unable to fund.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot 2024-07-07 at 11.35.09 AM.png
    Screenshot 2024-07-07 at 11.35.09 AM.png
    1 MB · Views: 119
Last edited:
WatcherZero said:
MoD has issued a request for expressions of interest for the Type 26 for a Mk 41 strike length cell rocket launched rapid reaction light or very light torpedo carrier with a minimum range exceeding that of the maximum range of heavy torpedoes (similar to the ASROC). It said it will also consider drone based systems.
Click to expand...
It occurs to me that last year's sudden RN interest in VL ASROC (or equivalents) makes a lot more sense as a departure from previous thinking if Type 92 was already a concept - it's a lot easier to deploy your ASW solution at range from a VLS silo than having to produce an automated system to load Proteus with Sting Ray and all the other complications that flying an unmanned ASW helicopter from an unmanned ASW sloop would bring.
 
DWG said:
It occurs to me that last year's sudden RN interest in VL ASROC (or equivalents) makes a lot more sense as a departure from previous thinking if Type 92 was already a concept - it's a lot easier to deploy your ASW solution at range from a VLS silo than having to produce an automated system to load Proteus with Sting Ray and all the other complications that flying an unmanned ASW helicopter from an unmanned ASW sloop would bring.
Click to expand...
Wonder if the Japanese or Koreans are going to bid... Their ASROC-equivalents are significantly better than the USN version.
 
DWG said:
It occurs to me that last year's sudden RN interest in VL ASROC (or equivalents) makes a lot more sense as a departure from previous thinking if Type 92 was already a concept - it's a lot easier to deploy your ASW solution at range from a VLS silo
Click to expand...
Just to clarify that I meant deploying VL ASROC on Type 92, not just Type 26. All the VL ASROC type systems have a fairly anaemic range - between 12 and 19 miles - so a Type 26 acting as an off-board magazine extension for Type 92 would tie them together in a way that wouldn't be practical, better to use the Type 26's Wildcat for that. But a Type 92 with its own VLS would be able to engage targets it detects without the complexity of an unmanned helo or the myopic range of firing torpedoes over the side.
 
It's looking increasingly likely that T26 will be chosen for the Royal Norwegian Navy...apart from the fact it pretty much is exactly what they're looking for..

https://twitter.com/x/status/1893702250024902926
View: https://x.com/Drecas_2000/status/1893702250024902926


ukdefencejournal.org.uk

Norway Type 26 bid boosted as BAE and Hamek sign partnership

BAE Systems and Norwegian shipyard Hamek have signed a Memorandum of Understanding to collaborate on Norway’s maritime defence requirements.
ukdefencejournal.org.uk ukdefencejournal.org.uk
 
Among the new generation of frigates (or are these closer to destroyers? its all getting blurred now..)..
the Type 26 certainly seems to be very popular! perhaps more so than the cheaper Type 31?
 
helmutkohl said:
Among the new generation of frigates (or are these closer to destroyers? its all getting blurred now..)..
the Type 26 certainly seems to be very popular! perhaps more so than the cheaper Type 31?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure Type 26 will get any other orders beyond the UK, Canada, Australia and Norway. It's an exceptionally capable vessel with the associated price tag. Any other nations with the budget to buy and operate tend to have their own shipbuilding industries to look after.

Type 26 appears to be very well positioned for the Norwegian order as their key requirements are:

1- ASW oriented Frigate - T26 nails this one....it will come in at No.1 in any scoring...
2 - From a 'close ally' - Again T26 will score the highest on this...
3 - Available from 2029 from existing production - Possible, the RN might have to give up a slot or 2...but they'd do it for the sale.

Add in all the other softer factors....RN will be doing ASW up north with the Norwegians so interoperability is key, nearby support infrastructure (T26 in class of its own there as well), AW101 in Norwegian service and is the worlds best ASW helo, Stingray torps, P-8 interoperability and training....list goes on an on...

The other contenders; ASWF, FTI, F126 and Constellation Class (in order of likelihood from most to least) all have their own advantages, but none have them to the degree that T26 does.

T31 I suspect will get a couple more orders in due course. RN might be able to squeeze a few more in as T31 or to a modified T32 design (which if BAE lands the Norwegian order would make sense for Babcock Rosyth). RNZN might be in play in the future as well.
 
timmymagic said:
It's looking increasingly likely that T26 will be chosen for the Royal Norwegian Navy...apart from the fact it pretty much is exactly what they're looking for..

https://twitter.com/x/status/1893702250024902926
View: https://x.com/Drecas_2000/status/1893702250024902926


ukdefencejournal.org.uk

Norway Type 26 bid boosted as BAE and Hamek sign partnership

BAE Systems and Norwegian shipyard Hamek have signed a Memorandum of Understanding to collaborate on Norway’s maritime defence requirements.
ukdefencejournal.org.uk ukdefencejournal.org.uk
Click to expand...
Careful there, the Norwegian MOD is negotiating with several Helo manufacturers and they recently contracted a (first?) batch of Seahawks.
 
The Norwegian MH-60s are intended as replacements for the Coast Guard Lynx (via a cancelled NH-90 order). From a March 2023 ESD article:-

"The Norwegian MoD stated that the six MH-70Rs would “initially be used by the Coast Guard, but they will also be prepared to be equipped for anti-submarine operations”. Given the smaller fleet compared to the original NH90 buy, Norwegian Defence Minister Bjorn Arild Gram indicated that some of the original mission set could be addressed by unmanned aerial vehicles."

SO FFBNW ASW equipment? Intended for operation from the 3 Jan Mayen class OPV.

Since 2018 / 19 the Royal Norwegian Air Force has been using the AW101 in the SAR/Utility role. 16 were ordered with one damaged (lost?) in an accident. So plenty of knowledge of the type. It is the Air Force that operates the helicopters on behalf of other services.

Following the withdrawal of the NH-90 in 2022 from both Navy & CG vessels the Fridtjof Nansen frigates seem to be without helicopters, and yet the MH-60Rs are intended for the CG.

Are the flight decks of the OPV too small for AW101?
 
Folded length / width / height
AW101 - 15.75m / 5.2m / 5.2m
NH90 - 13.64m / 3.2m / 4.2m
MH-60R - 12.51m / 3.37m / 3.94m

If hangar dimensions were the issue, it becomes easy to see why the MH-60R was selected over the AW101.

But the Type 26 frigate hangar is sized from the outset for Merlin / AW101.
 
timmymagic said:
I'm not sure Type 26 will get any other orders beyond the UK, Canada, Australia and Norway. It's an exceptionally capable vessel with the associated price tag. Any other nations with the budget to buy and operate tend to have their own shipbuilding industries to look after.

Type 26 appears to be very well positioned for the Norwegian order as their key requirements are:

1- ASW oriented Frigate - T26 nails this one....it will come in at No.1 in any scoring...
2 - From a 'close ally' - Again T26 will score the highest on this...
3 - Available from 2029 from existing production - Possible, the RN might have to give up a slot or 2...but they'd do it for the sale.

Add in all the other softer factors....RN will be doing ASW up north with the Norwegians so interoperability is key, nearby support infrastructure (T26 in class of its own there as well), AW101 in Norwegian service and is the worlds best ASW helo, Stingray torps, P-8 interoperability and training....list goes on an on...

The other contenders; ASWF, FTI, F126 and Constellation Class (in order of likelihood from most to least) all have their own advantages, but none have them to the degree that T26 does.
Click to expand...
If i remember it right F-127 and not F-126 is offered by germany which has not known ASW capabilitys / hard to compare to any ship
 

Similar threads

Please donate to support the forum.

Back
Top Bottom