RAF in 1939 with better bombers

[NOMISYRRUC]

Specification B.18/38 - Reconnaissance Bomber Aircraft for Rapid Production
Armstrong Whitworth A.W.41 Albermarle
Issued on 01.09.38 to Armstrong Whitworth​

1,280 aircraft were ordered, but only 602 were built, including the two prototypes. The first prototype flew on 20.03.40 and arrived at the A&AEE for its acceptance trials in November 1940. The second prototype flew on 20.04.41. These aircraft were built by Armstrong-Whitworth at Baginton.

The 600 production aircraft were delivered between October 1941 and May 1945. They were built at Gloster's Hucclecote factory, but were built by a specially created company called A.W. Hawkesley Ltd. The aircraft didn't enter service (with No. 511 Squadron) until November 1942.

It would be same in this "version of history" except that the ALT-Albermarle was powered by 4 Bristol Hercules engines instead of 2.

I'd rather put those 600 wings on a boxy fuselage with rear loading ramp and mainwheels outside the fuselage...at least AW Atalanta style.

Which changes the thread from the RAF with Better Bombers (which is that @uk 75 asks for in the Opening Post) to the RAF with Better Transport Aircraft. And how would a boxy fuselage with rear loading ramp and mainwheels outside the fuselage...at least AW Atlanta style make them better Glider Tugs as that is how most of them were employed.

 

[riggerrob]

Can we agree that OTL Albemarle was a bit of a dud compared with the North American B-25? By mid-war, B-25s were available by the hundreds.

If you want to add a ramp u see the tail of an AW Atalanta, you will also need to add a nose wheel, but this converts it into more of a colonial bomber/transport more like a Shorts Skyvan. The added weight of the ramp reduces payload/bomb load/fuel load. Ramps can also increase drag unless long and perfectly curved.
While a ramp might be nice - for supporting paratroopers - you really need to decide whether to build a colonial bomber/transport or a strategic bomber to bomb German industry into rubble.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Can we agree that OTL Albemarle was a bit of a dud compared with the North American B-25? By mid-war, B-25s were available by the hundreds.

Yes.

Plus my ALT-Abermarle is effectively reinventing the Real-Stirling and the Hercules powered versions of the Real-Halifax and Real-Lancaster.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Bombers produced by Hawker Siddeley Part Two.
Avro Bombers in the "Real World".​

Hawker Aircraft bought Gloster Aircraft in 1934 and in 1935 purchased the companies of J.D. Siddeley to create Hawker Siddeley. The latter included Armstrong-Whitworth Aircraft which to J.D. Siddeley purchased in 1927 and Avro which J.D. Siddeley acquired in 1928 by buying A.V. Roe's shared in the Company.

Specification P.13/36 - Dated 08.09.36 - Medium Bomber - Issued to Tender.
The Avro Type 679 Manchester.​

• Two prototypes were ordered from Avro in 30.04.37. They were built at Woodford and made their first flights on 25.07.39 and 26.05.40 respectively.
• A production contract for 200 aircraft was let from Avro on 01.07.37. I don't have the first flight date, but the 157 that were built as Manchesters were delivered between August 1940 and November 1941. The other 43 aircraft were built as Lancasters. All 200 aircraft were built at Avro's Chadderton factory.
• A production contract for 100 aircraft was let to Metropolitan-Vickers in September 1939. I don't have the first flight date, but the 43 aircraft that were built as Manchesters were delivered between March 1941 and March 1942. The other 57 aircraft were built as Lancasters.
• That brought the total number of Manchesters built to 200 plus the 2 prototypes.
  • More Manchesters were ordered from Avro, Chadderton and Metropolitan-Vickers, but they were built as Lancasters.
  • 150 Manchesters were ordered from Fairey's Stockport factory, but the order was cancelled and Halifaxes were built there instead.
  • 300 Manchesters were ordered from Armstrong-Whitworth in 2 batches of 150. The first batch in September 1939 and the second in December 1939. These contracts were cancelled too and the Firm had to continue building the Whitley for much longer than had been intended.
  • A one-off cannon armed Manchester was ordered from Avro (along with a cannon armed Halifax from Handley Page & a cannon armed Stirling from Short Brothers) for cannon trials, but it (and the Halifax and the Stirling) were cancelled.
• The first Manchester squadron began forming in November 1940 and made its first operational sorties in February 1941.

Specification P.13/36 - Dated 08.09.36 - Medium Bomber - Issued to Tender.
The Avro Type 683 Lancaster.​

• I don't know when the four Lancaster prototypes were ordered, but they were built to Contract No. 135521/40, which indicates it was in the 1940-41 financial year.
  • The Merlin powered prototypes flew in on 09.01.41 & 13.05.41.
  • The first Hercules powered prototype few on 26.11.41 and the second was cancelled.
• The first Lancasters were delivered to No. 44 Squadron in September 1941 and the squadron was completely equipped with the aircraft in December 1941.
• The Lancaster made its first operational sorties in April 1942.
• A total of 7,374 production aircraft were built in seven factories (including one in Canada) and delivered between October 1941 and January 1946 as follows:

​

The above is according to the Air Britain RAF Aircraft books by James J. Halley. He wrote that the first production Lancaster was delivered in October 1941 and the other source I have used said September 1941.

Specification B.14/43 - Heavy Bomber "Lancaster" Development.
Specification Cancelled.
The Avro Type 694 Lincoln.​

• I don't know when the specification was written other than it was sometime in 1943
• I don't know when the 3 prototypes were ordered, but the first of them flew on 09.06.44.
• A grand total of 4,361 production aircraft were ordered from British & Canadian factories. This included many ordered as Lancasters and some ordered post-war.
• 530 were actually built (529 in the UK and one in Canada) and they were delivered between January 1945 and March 1951 as follows:

​

• The above is according to the Air Britain RAF Aircraft books by James J. Halley. According to him Metropolitan-Vickers built 80 Lincolns which produces a total of 529 production aircraft built in the UK. My other sources which are the Putnams books on Avro Aircraft and RAF Aircraft since 1918 say that the Firm built 79 aircraft and the grand total was 528 aircraft built in the UK plus the 3 prototypes.
• The table doesn't include 18 of the aircraft that were built for Argentina (because they didn't carry British military serial numbers) but it does include the 12 ex-RAF aircraft that were sold to Argentina.
• According to the Putnams book on RAF aircraft 54 Lincolns were built by the Australian Government Aircraft Factory. I haven't included them in the table because they were built to Australian account and carried Australian military serial numbers. It also says that 18 were converted to Mk 31 (MR) standard and given new serials A73-55 to A73-73 which is 19 aircraft not 18.
  • The ADF Serials website has 19 aircraft in the range A73-55 to A73-73 but it is unclear whether they were new aircraft or conversions of old aircraft because the list doesn't say what each aircraft's old serial number was.
  • According to the ADF Serials website the 54 Lincolns that definitely were new aircraft were delivered between May 1946 to September 1950.
    • And.
  • According to the ADF Serials website the 19 aircraft that might be new or might be conversions of earlier aircraft were delivered from From December 1950 to October 1953.
• The first RAF squadron to be equipped with the Lincoln was No. 57 at East Kirkby in August 1945.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Bombers produced by Hawker Siddeley Part Three.
Avro Bombers in this "Version of History".​

Hawker Aircraft bought Gloster Aircraft in 1934 and in 1935 purchased the companies of J.D. Siddeley to create Hawker Siddeley. The latter included Armstrong-Whitworth Aircraft which to J.D. Siddeley purchased in 1927 and Avro which J.D. Siddeley acquired in 1928 by buying A.V. Roe's shared in the Company.

Specification P.13/36 - Dated 08.09.36 - Medium Bomber - Issued to Tender
The Avro Type 679 ALT-Manchester.​

In common with the ALT-Halifax in Post 37 the ALT-Manchester will be an aircraft powered by four RR Vulture engines instead of two. All other things being equal the history of the ALT-Manchester will be the same as that of the Real-Manchester, as follows:

• Two prototypes were ordered from Avro in 30.04.37. They were built at Woodford and made their first flights on 25.07.39 and 26.05.40 respectively.
• A production contract for 200 aircraft was let from Avro on 01.07.37. I don't have the first flight date, but the 157 that were built as ALT-Manchesters were delivered between August 1940 and November 1941. The other 43 aircraft were built as ALT-Lancasters. All 200 aircraft were built at Avro's Chadderton factory.
• A production contract for 100 aircraft was left from Metropolitan-Vickers in September 1939. I don't have the first flight date, but the 43 aircraft that were built as ALT-Manchesters were delivered between March 1941 and March 1942. The other 57 aircraft were built as ALT-Lancasters.
• That brought the total number of ALT-Manchesters built to 200 plus the 2 prototypes.
  • More ALT-Manchesters were ordered from Avro, Chadderton and Metropolitan-Vickers, but they were built as ALT-Lancasters.
  • 150 ALT-Manchesters were ordered from Fairey's Stockport factory, but the order was cancelled and ALT-Hampdens (which were effectively Real-Halifaxes) were built there instead.
  • 300 ALT-Manchesters were ordered from Armstrong-Whitworth in 2 batches of 150. The first batch in September 1939 and the second in December 1939. These contracts were cancelled too and the Firm had to continue building the ALT-Whitley for much longer than had been intended.
  • A one-off cannon armed ALT-Manchester was ordered from Avro (along with a cannon armed ALT-Halifax from Handley Page & a cannon armed ALT-Stirling from Short Brothers) for cannon trials, but it (and the ALT-Halifax and the ALT-Stirling) were cancelled.
• The first ALT-Manchester squadron began forming in November 1940 and made its first operational sorties in February 1941.

All other things were not equal.

Specification P.13/36 - Dated 08.09.36 - Medium Bomber - Issued to Tender
The Avro Type 683 ALT-Lancaster.​

There won't be one because I think it won't be feasible to modify the ALT-Manchester into an ALT-Lancaster with six or eight Merlin engines. I also think that having the Avro and Metrovick factories re-tool to build the ALT-Hampden (which in this "version of history" was effectively the Real-Halifax) would take too long and loose too much production.

Therefore, I think the Air Ministry and Ministry of Aircraft Production would have no choice but to continue producing the ALT-Manchester and have Rolls Royce make the Vulture work properly.

So, another 7,374 ALT-Manchesters were delivered between October 1941 and January 1946. This would include 7,074 with four RR Vulture engines and 300 with Bristol Centaurs engines in place of the 7,074 Merlin-Lancasters and 300 Hercules-Lancasters respectively. Production would be according to the table in Post 44.

Specification B.14/43 - Heavy Bomber "Manchester" Development.
Specification Cancelled.
The Avro Type 694 ALT-Lincoln​

The ALT-Lincoln would be a development of the ALT-Manchester instead of the ALT-Lancaster using four Vulture engines. In common with the "Real World" 3 prototypes and 530 production aircraft would be in the UK and Canada. See he table in Post 44. Another 18 aircraft would be built in the UK for Argentina and 54 (or 73) aircraft would be built in Australia.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

The Real Specification B.12/36
Heavy Bomber - Dated 15.07.36 - Issued to Tender

Unsuccessful Tenders According to the British Aircraft Specifications file.​

Armstrong-Whitworth tendered as design that might have been the A.W.36, there were unnamed proposals from Bristol & Fairey, Boulton Paul tendered the P.91 and Vickers tendered the Type 293 to which the serial number L6899 may have been allocated.

Supermarine Types 316, 317 and 318​

The Firm produced the Type 316 powered by four Merlin or Hercules engines, the Type 317 with four Hercules engine and the Type 318 with four Merlin engines.

Two prototypes were ordered. However, according to the Putnams book on Supermarine aircraft.

Design and construction of the two prototype fuselages was nearing completion when the factory was bombed and both were severely damaged when the German Luftwaffe made a heavy daylight low-level attack on 26 September, 1940.

I suspect that the Supermarine B.1/36 would not have been put into production if the prototypes had flown and performed as expected because it was too far behind its rivals from Avro, Handley Page, Short Brothers and Vickers.

Short Brothers S.29 Stirling​

• Two prototypes were built and they made their first flights on 14.05.39 and 03.12.39 respectively.
• 100 production aircraft were initially ordered and the first of these flew on 07.05.40.
• A grand total of 2,380 production aircraft were built. However, 11 were destroyed before delivery in air raids on the Belfast & Rochester factories. The other 2,369 were delivered from May 1940 to December 1945. See below.

​

• The two original prototypes and all 2,380 production aircraft had four Bristol Hercules engines. However, a third prototype with four 1,600hp Wright Cyclone engines was built and 140 Stirling Mk II with these engines were ordered from Canadian Associated Aircraft the Firm that built the Handley Page Hampden in Canada.
• No. 7 Squadron began converting to Stirlings in August 1940 and it went into action for the first time on the night on 10-11 February 1941.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

The Alternative Specification B.12/36
Heavy Bomber - Dated 15.07.36 - Issued to Tender​

I upgraded Spec. P.13/36 from an aircraft powered by two Vulture class engines into to an aircraft powered by four Vulture class engines. Upgrading Spec. B.12/36 from an aircraft powered by four Hercules engines to one powered by six or eight Hercules engines isn't plausible in my opinion. The other way to go is to make it an aircraft powered by four Centaurus class engines which is effectively the S.36 Super Stirling. However, that won't work because the Centaurus wouldn't be ready in time for the ALT-Stirling to go into production in May 1940. More plausible engines may be the Napier Sabres or RR Vultures, but the latter would effectively make ALT-Spec. B.12/36 the same as ALT-Spec. P.13/36.

As Austin re-tooled from building Stirlings to Lancasters in the "Real World" I think that in this "version of history" the firm will build 950 ALT-Manchesters instead of the 620 Stirlings & 330 Lancasters that it built in the "Real Word".

The Real-Stirling was effectively reinventing the developed version of the ALT-Hampden with four Hercules engines which in turn was effectively the Real-Halifax with Hercules engines. In the "Real World" Short & Harland built 150 Handley Page Herefords which were Hampdens with Napier Dagger engines instead of the normal Bristol Pegasus engines and in Post 37 I wrote this.

Fourthly, the "This Version of History" Specification B.12/36 was for a heavy bomber with four Vulture-class engines so the Short ALT-Stirling and Supermarine ALT-B.12/36 (the former with four Centurus engines instead of four Hercules engines) would have been delayed too. The likely result of this is that the RAF cancelled Short & Harland's ALT-Stirling contracts and ordered it to continue production of the ALT-Hereford and the Firm delivered 1,218 ALT-Herefords with four Hercules engines from October 1940 to December 1945 instead of the 1,218 Stirlings that the Firm delivered over the same period in the "Real World". That would have increased the number of ALT-Herefords built in this "Version of History" from 150 to 1,368. Except, that it would have been more than 1,368 because deliveries of ALT-Hereford with Hercules engines would have begun in July 1940 (which is when production of the ALT-Hereford with Dagger engines ended) instead of October 1940.

Short & Harland also built Sunderland flying boats so I was going to suggest that Rochester concentrated on building Sunderlands and Belfast concentrated on building the ALT-Hampden. However, the numbers don't work, because Rochester delivered 542 Stirlings from May 1940 to December 1945 and Belfast delivered 133 Sunderlands from January 1942 to June 1946. On the other hand I believe that the Real-Hampden & Real-Halifax were designed to be easy to produce and by extension so would the ALT-Hampden & ALT-Halifax. I've also heard that the Stirling & Sunderland were hard to produce. Therefore, Short & Harland might have been able to build 1,760 ALT-Hampdens with the resources required to build the 1,218 Stirlings that it built in the "Real World".

It's also likely that having built 160 ALT-Hampdens in this "version of history" Canadian Associated Aircraft would receive a contract to build another 140 ALT-Hampdens in place of the 140 Stirlings ordered in the "Real World". One of the two factories that built the Hampden also built the 430 Lancasters so it's plausible that it might continue to built the ALT-Hampden in this "version of history" instead of re-tooling to built the ALT-Manchester.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

I have often wondered what would have happened if instead of the build up of Fighter Command the RAF had put all its resources into bringing heavy four-engine bombers into service in 1939 instead of 1941.
Churchill would have the means to punish Germany earlier and begin the destruction of its cities.

These are paragraphs from Cabinet Paper CAB.024.255 "Proposed Further Expansion of the Royal Air Force" dated 17.05.35 and is about Expansion Scheme C.

It explains (apart from the extra expense) why the RAF didn't plan to have an all Heavy Bomber Home Defence Force until Expansion Scheme M of late 1938.

5. It will be seen that a total of 70 bomber squadrons is suggested, i.e., 20 heavy bomber, 20 medium bomber, and 30 light bomber squadrons (of which latter 11 will be non-regular).

6. Our discussion on the question of the above allotment centred round the number of light bomber squadrons, and the possibility of their curtailment, with corresponding increase to heavier types. If that were thought desirable and found possible, an increase in our offensive power might be expected to result.

7. It was represented to us, however, that the total figure of 30 light bomber squadrons had been arrived at after a number of factors had been weighed. In the first place, production of this category of aircraft will be quicker than that of heavier types. It is a type, moreover, that is suitable for the purpose of overseas reinforcement in the Middle East, India, &c, a matter which cannot be entirely disregarded. It is particularly suited for the equipment of non-regular squadrons, whose personnel, like all others, start their instruction on the lighter kinds of aircraft, and have not the time necessary for more advanced instruction in heavier types.

8. As suggested in the preceding paragraph, the requirements of Imperial Defence as a whole must be considered, although it is realised that the needs of Home Defence must, at the present time, be the predominant factor. It is the light bomber, in particular, which is required for general service overseas, and the Home Defence Air Force has always been regarded, and rightly, as an Imperial Reserve in case of necessity.

9. The proportion between the various types is, of course, a matter of judgment; the light bomber has certain advantages in the matter of speed and in capacity for carrying out diving bombing attacks. We noted that the actual increase in light bomber Squadrons under the new programme was 5 (of which 3 are for non-regular squadrons); this compares with proposed increases of 12 heavy bomber and 10 medium bomber squadrons over programmes already approved.

10. It is the considered opinion of the Air Ministry that the proportions of bomber squadrons, as divided between heavy, medium and light, should be accepted as proposed.

 

[uk 75]

At the risk of trashing my own thread the RAF were right to think in terms of light bombers. Mosquitos and close support Typhoons were to be much more crucial in winning the war than the lumbering fleets of Lancs and Halis.
As has come out in this thread any heavy bombers that could have been got into service by 1939 would have met the same fate in action as the Blenheim's and Battles.
The Luftwaffe's Do17 and He111 not to mention its Ju87s met a similar fate in the skies over England once they lost their Me109 cover.
Deterring Hitler by airpower appealed to Chamberlain because it was his cheapest option. The reality was that Hitler could not be deterred.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

At the risk of trashing my own thread the RAF were right to think in terms of light bombers. Mosquitos and close support Typhoons were to be much more crucial in winning the war than the lumbering fleets of Lancs and Halis.
As has come out in this thread any heavy bombers that could have been got into service by 1939 would have met the same fate in action as the Blenheim's and Battles.
The Luftwaffe's Do17 and He111 not to mention its Ju87s met a similar fate in the skies over England once they lost their Me109 cover.
Deterring Hitler by airpower appealed to Chamberlain because it was his cheapest option. The reality was that Hitler could not be deterred.

I think the 35 squadrons of ALT-Hampdens, ALT-Wellingtons & ALT-Whitleys in RAF Bomber Command would not have met the same fate in action as the Blenheims & Battles and for that matter the Real-Hampends & Rea-Wellingtons on daylight raids as I think they will be attacking by night from "Day One" and I think they will be bombing with much greater accuracy due to the earlier development of navigation aids such as Gee. (See Post 38 of this thread.)

I think Bomber Command would have had the capability to do 1942-Real World style area bombing raids on Germany from September 1939, but until the middle of 1940 may only dropping leaflets saying, "This could have been a bomb", in German.

Although I plan to do ALT-Schemes C, F and L with all-heavy Bomber Commands the RAF will still need some twin-engine light or medium bombers for the Overseas Commands and the Air Component of the British Expeditionary Force which I intend to be the twin-Merlin version of the Fairey Battle that was proposed in the "Real World".

I have often wondered what would have happened if instead of the build up of Fighter Command the RAF had put all its resources into bringing heavy four-engine bombers into service in 1939 instead of 1941.
Churchill would have the means to punish Germany earlier and begin the destruction of its cities.

I intend to finish what I started, but I've thought of a way to put four-engine heavies into service in the summer of 1939 which doesn't involve doubling the number of engines on every British bomber from Spec. G.4/31 to B.1/35 and I think it's more plausible that what I've done so far, but as Magnus Magnusson said I've started so I'll finish.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Bristol Bombers - Part One
Specification 28/35 - Medium Bomber Development - Issued 24/10/35​

• The original Bristol Type 142 powered by two Bristol Mercury engines made its first flight on 12.04.35 and went to the A&AEE at Martlesham for airworthiness testing. On 01.08.35 the Secretary of State for Air asked Lord Rothermere whether he was prepared to sell the aircraft. Rothermere, went one better by naming the aeroplane "Britain First" and gave it to the nation.
• 150 Type 142M Blenheim aircraft were ordered on 28.08.35 to Specification 28/35 as part of Expansion Scheme C. The first aircraft flew on 25.06.36 and the 150 aircraft were delivered between January 1937 and January 1938. The first squadron to get Blenheims was No. 114 at Wyton in March 1937.
• According to Air Britain's RAF Aircraft books a total of 6,595 production aircraft were ordered from Avro, Bristol and Rootes, of which 1,225 were cancelled and 5,370 were delivered between January 1937 and June 1943.
• See below.

​

• According to Air Britain's reference books, the above included: 1,134 Blenheim Mk I (250 Avro, 634 Bristol & 250 Rootes, Speke); 3,296 Blenheim Mk IV (750 Avro, 316 Bristol & 2,240 Rootes, Speke) and 940 Blenheim Mk V (all at Rootes, Blythe Bridge).
• The table doesn't include 6 Blenheim Mk V prototypes of which 2 were cancelled and 4 were built.
• According to later editions of the Putnams RAF Aircraft since 1918 books the RAF had 1,089 Blenheims on charge at 03.09.39.

According to the British official history on the Design & Development of Weapons.
Aircraft Ordered to 03.09.39.​

• Scheme C
  • 150 aircraft were ordered from Bristol on 22.08.35.
• Scheme F
  • 1,568 were on order at 31.12.36 because 1,418 aircraft were ordered in 1936 as follows:
    • 568 from Bristol on 11.06.36 (for delivery by 31.03.40) which increased its total to 718.
    • 600 from Rootes on 11.06.36 (for delivery by 31.12.40).
      • The document didn't give the exact date, but I have an Air Ministry document from October 1939 saying that all the Blenheims on order from Bristol & Rootes were on Air Ministry requisition on 31.07.36.
    • 250 from Avro on 22.12.36 (for delivery by 30.12.39).
  • The Air Ministry document from October 1936 that I referred to above included:
    • 14 Main Force bomber squadron with 67 Blenheims per squadron (including reserves) = 938 aircraft.
      • After deducting 124 Blenheims ordered under Scheme C (out of 150 ordered) there was a requirement for 814 Blenheim bombers.
      • This was met by ordering 434 from Bristol & 380 from Rootes.
    • 9 General Reconnaissance squadrons equipped with Blenheims.
      • 3 Main Force G.R. squadrons with 46 aircraft (including reserves) = 138 aircraft.
      • 6 Overseas G.R. squadrons with 36 aircraft (including reserves) = 216 aircraft.
      • That produced a total requirement for 354 G.R. Blenheims.
      • This was met by ordering 134 from Bristol & 220 by Rootes.
    • That matches the 568 Blenheims ordered from Bristol & 600 ordered from Rootes.
      • 434 Bombers + 134 G.R. = 568 ordered from Bristol.
      • 380 Bombers + 220 G.R. = 600 ordered from Rootes.
• Scheme L and subsequent orders to 03.09.39.
  • 1,768 aircraft were on order at 12.05.38 (350 Avro, 818 Bristol & 600 Rootes) when.
    • 100 were ordered from from Avro to be delivered by 30.12.39.
    • 100 were ordered from Bristol to be delivered by 31.03.40, but only on condition that Beaufort production was hurried up.
    • No more aircraft were ordered from Rootes, but the completion of the existing contracts was brought forward by 9 months from 31.12.40 to 31.03.40.
  • 2,088 aircraft were on order at 30.09.38 (600 Avro, 888 Bristol & 600 Rootes).
    • 250 were authorised by the Air Council for Avro in September 1938.
      • Although they weren't formally ordered until 18.08.39.
      • At 30.09.38 the delivery of 452 was expected by 31.03.40 and 148 after that date.
    • 70 were ordered from Bristol to compensate for an expected failure in Blackburn Botha G.R.s.
      • But the book also says that the 70 aircraft were ordered on 23.11.38.
      • All 888 aircraft on order from Bristol were to be completed by August 1939.
    • No more aircraft were ordered from Rootes.
      • At 30.09.38 only only 280 were expected by 31.03.40 and 320 after that date.
  • 2,400 aircraft were on order at 30.09.39.
    • No more aircraft were ordered from Avro so their total was still 600.
    • 62 were ordered from Bristol on 25.02.39 (to fill the gap before the before the Beaufort came into production) which increased the Firm's total to 950.
    • 250 were ordered from Rootes in April 1939 which increased that Firm's total to 850.

Aircraft Ordered After 03.09.39.​

• A total of 1,287 Blenheims had been delivered out of 2,400 that were on order on 03.09.39 as follows:
  • 147 by Avro, out of 600 on order.
  • 900 by Bristol, out of 950 on order.
    • On the outbreak of war Bristol’s were just winding up their Blenheim production; they were already well into Beaufort production and Beaufighters were expected within a few months.
    • However, took until March 1940 to deliver the balance. (Except the Air Britain books say that the last Bristol-built Blenheim was delivered in January 1940.)
  • 240 by Rootes, out of 850 on order.
    • At 03.09.39 the Firm was expected to continue production of the type for at least 18 months.
• Subsequent orders from Avro were as follows:
  • The number on order was reduced from 600 to 380 on 12.03.40 when 220 aircraft were transferred to Rootes.
  • 820 were ordered in June 1940 (420 on 06.06.40 & 400 on 18.06.41) for delivery by 30.09.41 which increased the total to 1,200.
  • 375 were ordered on 17.10.40 for delivery by 31.03.42 which increased the total to 1,575.
  • 622 were cancelled on 17.03.41 after the Lancaster was accepted for production, which reduced the total to 953.
  • However, 47 were reinstated 17.08.41 to fill the gap until actual deliveries of Lancasters started.
  • This increased the total to 1,000.
  • The official history says production actually ended in November 1941, but the Air Britain books say that the last Avro-built Blenheim was delivered in October 1941.
• Subsequent orders from Rootes were as follows:
  • 400 were ordered on 21.10.39 increasing the total to 1,250.
  • 800 were ordered on 30.01.40 increasing the total to 2,050.
  • 220 were ordered on 22.06.40 increasing the total to 2,270.
    • These were the 220 aircraft transferred from Avro to Rootes in June 1940.
    • Production was now expected to continue until May 1941.
  • 600 were ordered in June 1940 increasing the total to 2,870.
    • Under "Harrogate Programme" of January 1940 production was to continue until September 1942 and this was the first instalment of the 1,917 extra Blenheims required.
  • However, the 220 aircraft transferred from Rootes in June 1940 were cancelled the following July which reduced the total to 2,650.
  • 780 were ordered in August 1940 increasing the total to 3,430 and were to carry the Firm forward to February 1942.
  • 170 were cancelled on 03.04.41 (the book says 171 but I think this is a typo for 170) which reduced the total to 3,260.
  • 415 were ordered in August 1941 which increased the total to 3,675.
  • 255 were cancelled in April 1942 which reduced the total to 3,420.
    • This matches the total of 3,420 built according to the Air Britain books (2,480 at Speke & 940 at Blythe Bridge).
  • Production actually ended in June 1943 which is the same as the Air Britain books.

Summary​

The orders placed with Bristol from September 1938 onwards were to keep its factory employed until first the Beaufort and then the Beaufighter were ready to go into production.

The orders placed with Avro and Rootes between September 1938 and the Spring of 1940 were to keep the factories employed (and increase their production capacity) until the aircraft being designed to Spec. P.13/36 were ready to go into production. The book doesn't specifically say so but the transfer of 220 aircraft from Avro to Rootes in March 1940 (which reduced Avro's total from 600 to 380) was probably to allow the Firm to start making Manchesters sooner.

However, Lord Beaverbrook became Minister of Aircraft Production in May 1940.

• Avro saw it's orders increased from 380 to 1,575 between June and October 1940.
• Roote's saw a net increase in its orders from 2,270 to 3,430 between June and August 1940.

The Air Ministry didn't want all the Blenheims (which they considered an obsolescent type) and in January 1941 asked the MAP that Blenheim production should be reduced so that capacity could be turned over to Lancasters and Halifaxes. This is why 622 of the aircraft on order from Avro were cancelled towards the end March 1941 (when the Lancaster was accepted for production) which reduced the Firm's total to 953 aircraft. (But 47 had to be reinstated in August 1941 to fill the gap until actual deliveries of Lancasters started which meant that Avro actually built 1,000 Blenheims.) It is also why 170 of the Blenheims on order from Rootes were cancelled early in April 1941.

The official history continued.

They [The Air Ministry] were agreeable however to one line (about 30 or 40 a month) being retained on Blenheim V’s (the close support bomber version) and M.A.P. promised to do this. The Blenheim V did not however come in at Rootes (Speke)—the factory chosen for the Blenheim to continue—until September 1941, and during the first 9 months of 1941 Blenheims continued at an average of just over 100 a month.

In addition in August 1941, 415 more were restored to the order book. This was presumably the result of a reversal of the previous Air Staff decision, for the Air Member for Supply and Organisation complained of the deficiencies in the Blenheim programme in February 1942 which had resulted in substantial arrears in overseas despatches. Incidentally, in April 1942 soon after this complaint, Blenheim orders at Rootes were finally reduced by 255. Eventually production of Blenheim V’s was removed from Speke to Stoke and there it continued during the whole of 1942 at an average monthly rate of 57, gradually declining right up till June 1943.

The last Speke-built Blenheim (a Mk IV) was delivered in November 1941. The factory re-tooled to build the Halifax. The first Speke-built Halifax was delivered in April 1942. Meanwhile, production of the Blenheim was transferred to the Stoke factory (Blythe Bridge) which delivered its first aircraft (a Mk V) in November 1941.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Bristol Bombers - Part Two
Alternative Specification 28/35 - Medium Bomber Development - Issued 24/10/35​

So far I've doubled the number of engines on all the aircraft built to specifications issued from 1931 to 1935. I think that wouldn't work with the Blenheim because I think Britain First would be the two-engine Type 142 as per the "Real World" in this "version of history" and not an ALT-Type 142 with four engines.

Although the RAF was concentrating on four-engine heavy bombers in this "version of history" there would still have been a requirement for a two-engine medium bomber to do the jobs that the four-engine types were too large for. However, the ALT-Fairey Battle is going to be built to fill those roles in this "version of history". Therefore, Avro, Bristol and Rootes built ALT-four-engine heavy bombers designed by firms other than Bristol in this "version of history". Avro & Bristol build the ALT-Whitley and Rootes built the ALT-Hampden.

Bristol has to build the ALT-Whitley instead of the Blenheim because the ALT-Hampden and ALT-Wellington weren't ready to go into production until late 1938.

• The first 80 ALT-Whitleys were ordered from Armstrong-Whitworth on 23.03.35, the first aircraft was delivered in March 1937 and the first squadron to receive the type was No. 10 at Disforth in March 1937.
• Meanwhile, the first 150 Real-Blenheims were ordered from Bristol on 22.08.35, the first aircraft was delivered in January 1937 and the first squadron to receive Blenheims was No. 114 at Wyton in March 1937.
• Therefore, I think 950 ALT-Whitleys could have been ordered from Bristol from August 1935 and delivered between early 1937 and early 1940.
• Bristol's Filton factory might continue to build ALT-Whitleys instead of re-tooling to build the Beaufort & Beaufighter and Filton's "Real World" production of those types would have to be undertaken by another factory. In fact the Beaufort & Beaufighter might not be built at all in this "version of history" as more ALT-Fairey Battles might be built in their place.

Avro and Rootes could have built the ALT-Hampden or the ALT-Wellington or the ALT-Whitley because all three types were in production by the time Avro & Rootes delivered their first Blenheims. Avro builds the ALT-Whitley because it and Armstrong-Whitworth were fellow members of the Hawker Siddeley Group. Rootes built the ALT-Hampden because the Firm's Speke factory built the Halifax after it built the Blenheim.

All 950 Bristol-built ALT-Whitleys might have 4 Bristol Mercury engines instead of the 4 Armstrong-Siddeley Tigers or 4 Rolls Royce Merlins that the ALT-Whitley's built by Armstrong-Whitworth had. Similarly the ALT-Whitleys built by Avro & Rootes to late 1940 might have Bristol Mercury engines and the aircraft built from late 1940 might have four Bristol Hercules engines in place of the 4 Tigers or 4 Merlins that the Armstrong-Whitworth-built ALT-Whitleys had.

Earlier in the thread I wrote that in this "version of history" the ALT-Manchester & ALT-Halifax were designed around 4 RR Vulture engines. I also wrote that it wouldn't be possible to redesign either aircraft around 6 or 8 Merlin or Hercules engines.

In Post 45 I suggested that having Avro & Metrovick re-tool to build the ALT-Hampden (which in this "version of history" was effectively the Real-Halifax) would take too long and loose too much production and that therefore, the Air Ministry and MAP would have had no choice but to continue producing the ALT-Manchester and have Rolls Royce make the Vulture work properly. However, I now think that Avro might keep building ALT-Whitleys instead of re-tooling to build ALT-Manchesters and that Metrovick and the other factories that built the ALT-Manchester in this "version of history" might build ALT-Whitleys instead.

In Post 37 I suggested that problems with finding a suitable engine for the ALT-Halifax would result in it being seriously delayed or being cancelled outright. In the former case the factories that built the Real-Halifax would build the ALT-Hampden until if & when the ALT-Halifax was ready to go into production. In the latter case those factories would build the ALT-Hampden until the war ended and there would be a one-to-one substitution of ALT-Hampdens for Real-Halifaxes.

One of those factories would be Rootes, Speke, which kept building ALT-Hampdens until if & when the ALT-Halifax was finally ready for production and if the ALT-Halifax never became ready for production Rootes, Speke would continue to build ALT-Hampdens until the end of the war. Rootes, Blythe Bridge would build the ALT-Hampden instead of the Blenheim Mk V and might continue to make then until the end of the war instead of ceasing production in June 1943 and re-tooling to build Beaufighters.

 

[riggerrob]

At the risk of trashing my own thread the RAF were right to think in terms of light bombers. Mosquitos and close support Typhoons were to be much more crucial in winning the war than the lumbering fleets of Lancs and Halis.
...

WALLIES needed a multi-phase approach to ruining Germany industry's ability to supply the troops fighting in Russia or Italy or Normandy.
The naval blockade limited importation of raw materials.
RAF [heavy] Bomber Command flattened German factories and railroads while preventing factory workers from getting a good night's sleep.
Finally, Typhoons shredded German army transport (mostly horse-drawn wagons) near the front lines. Typhoons may have only killed a few Tiger tanks, but far more Tigers were abandoned for lack of fuel, ammo or spare parts.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Bristol Bombers - Part Three
Specification C.26/31 - Bomber Transport Aircraft - Issued to Tender 09.04.32
The Real Version​

In the "Real World" the Air Ministry ordered single prototypes of the following aircraft.

• Armstrong-Whitworth A.W.23 which made its first flight on 04.06.35.
• Bristol built a single Type 130 Bombay which made its first flight on 23.06.35.
• Handley Page built a single H.P.51 which made its first flight on 08.05.35.

80 Bombays were ordered on 11.09.36 from Short & Harland (rather than Bristol), the first of them flew in March 1939 and 50 of them were delivered between April 1939 and June 1940. The last 30 aircraft were cancelled, presumably to allow Short & Harland to start building Herefords and then Stirlings sooner.

The A.W.23 and H.P.51 did not go into production. However, but they were developed into the A.W.38 Whitley and H.P.54 Harrow heavy bombers which did go into production for the RAF.

The Alternative Version​

In this "version of history" the Air Ministry ordered single prototypes of the following aircraft.

• ALT-Armstrong-Whitworth A.W.23 which made its first flight on 04.06.35.
• Bristol built a single ALT-Type 130 Bombay which made its first flight on 23.06.35.
• Handley Page built a single ALT-H.P. 51 which made its first flight on 08.05.35.

80 ALT-Bombays were ordered on 11.09.36 from Short & Harland (rather than Bristol) and the first of them flew in March 1939 and 50 of them were delivered between April 1939 and June 1940. The last 30 aircraft were cancelled, presumably to allow Short & Harland to start building ALT-Hampdens sooner.

The ALT-A.W.23 and ALT-H.P.51 did not go into production. However, but they were developed into the ALT-A.W.38 Whitley and ALT-H.P.54 Harrow heavy bombers which did go into production for the RAF.

The difference between the "Real World" and this "version of history" was that the ALT-versions of the A.W.23, A.W.38 Whitley, Bristol Type 130 Bombay, H.P.51 and H.P. 54 Harrow were four-engine aircraft instead of two-engine aircraft.

Specification B.3/34 - Heavy Bomber Landplane - To Tender 03.07.34
The Real Version​

This produced the A.W.38 Whitley a descendent of the A.W.23 Bomber-Transport built to Specification C.26/31. The two prototypes were powered by two 795hp Armstrong-Siddeley Tiger IX engines and the first flight was on 17.03.36. See Post 39 for more details.

The "British Aircraft Specifications File" (Page 191 & 192) says that the Bristol Type 144 a development of the Type 130 Bombay Bomber-Transport built to the same specification as the A.W.23 was tendered to B.3/34 too, along with the Boulton Paul P.79 and a Fairey project, but it also said that in spite of much written to the contrary the H.P.54 Harrow was not tendered to this specification.

The Alternative Version​

This produced the ALT-A.W.38 Whitley a descendent of the ALT-A.W.23 Bomber-Transport built to Specification C.26/31. The two prototypes were powered by four 795hp Armstrong-Siddeley Tiger IX engines and the first flight was on 17.03.36. See Post 39 for more details.

The "British Aircraft Specifications File" (Page 191 & 192) says that the ALT-Bristol Type 144 a development of the ALT-Type 130 Bombay Bomber-Transport built to the same specification as the ALT-A.W.23 was tendered to B.3/34 too, along with the ALT-Boulton Paul P.79 and an ALT-Fairey project, but it also said that in spite of much written to the contrary the ALT-H.P.54 Harrow was not tendered to this specification.

Contrary to what I wrote in Post 52 Bristol might not build ALT-Whitley's instead of the Blenheim because it may build the ALT-Bristol Type 144 (developed from the ALT-Type 130 Bombay) instead. In common with what I wrote in Post 52 Bristol's Filton factory might continue to build ALT-Type 144s instead of re-tooling to build the Beaufort & Beaufighter and Filton's "Real World" production of those types would have to be undertaken by another factory. In fact the Beaufort & Beaufighter might not be built at all in this "version of history" as more ALT-Fairey Battles might be built in their place.

Avro would still build the ALT-Whitley and Rootes would still built ALT-Hampden.

Short & Harland which I previously suggested would build the ALT-Hampden instead of the Hereford and Stirling might build the ALT-Type144 after it completed its ALT-Bombay contract because re-tooling to build that aircraft (due to it being based on the ALT-Bombay) might be quicker than re-tooling to build the ALT-Hampden.

Except that I wrote the above before I remembered that the Bombay was a fixed-undercarriage monoplane. If the Type 144 was a fixed undercarriage monoplane too it wouldn't be put into production. Or if it was put into production only a hundred or so would have been built (like the H.P. 54 Harrow which was developed from the H.P. 51) as it would have been a stop-gap order to keep Bristol's factory in business until it could re-tool to build something better.

 

[riggerrob]

What-if Bristol built a (fictional) thin-wing Beaufighter?
Could it have flown as fast as a Mosquito?

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

What-if Bristol built a (fictional) thin-wing Beaufighter?
Could it have flown as fast as a Mosquito?

I haven't the foggiest.

Have you posted it in this thread by mistake? This is the Opening Post.

I have often wondered what would have happened if instead of the build up of Fighter Command the RAF had put all its resources into bringing heavy four engined bombers into service in 1939 instead of 1941.
Churchill would have the means to punish Germany earlier and begin the destruction of its cities.

Did you mean to post it into the "Alternative RAF, 1936-41" thread.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Finally! Last and by all means least! The one you've not been waiting for!
Fairey Bombers
Part One
The Real Specification P.27/32 - Single-Engined Day Bombing Aircraft - Issued to Tender 12.04.33​

• One A.W.29 powered by one 920hp Armstrong-Siddeley Tiger VIII engine was ordered on 11.06.34 and made its first flight on 06.12.36. According to the "British Aircraft Specifications File" its first flight was delayed due to the priority given to the Whitley heavy bomber.
• Meanwhile, one Fairey P.27/32 (later named the Battle) powered by one 1,030hp RR Merlin I engine was ordered on 11.06.34 and made its first flight on 10.03.36.
• But, a production contract for 155 aircraft had been let to Fairey ten months earlier (May 1935) as part of Expansion Scheme C.
  • The first production aircraft flew on 14.04.37 and they were delivered to the RAF between 20.05.37 and 02.05.38.
  • These were the first of 2,184 production aircraft of which 1,518 were bombers, 200 were trainers and 466 were target tugs which were delivered between May 1937 and November 1940.
    • 1,155 were built by Fairey at Stockport of which 955 were bombers and 200 were trainers.
      • The first aircraft flew on 14.04.37 and they were delivered between 20.05.37 and November 1940.
    • 1,029 were built by Austin of which 563 were bombers and 466 were target tugs.
      • The first aircraft flew on 22.07.38 and they were delivered between October 1938 and October 1940.
  • The Battle entered RAF service with No. 63 Squadron at Upwood in May 1937.
    • There were 8 Battle squadrons at the end of March 1938 and 17 Battle squadrons in September 1938.
    • This strength of 17 squadrons was maintained until May and June 1939 when 2 squadrons converted to Hampdens.
    • Thus the Battle equipped 15 Bomber Command squadrons at the outbreak of World War II.
      • 10 were mobilised and sent to France as the first echelon of the Advanced Air Striking Force (AASF).
      • 5 became Group Pool squadrons. These were the forerunners of the Operational Training Units (OTUs).
  • 1,153 Battles were delivered to 31.08.39 (774 by Fairey and 379 by Austin) according to Michael J.F. Bowyer in "Aircraft for the Few".
  • The RAF has 1,014 Battles on charge at the outbreak of World War II according to the Putnams RAF aircraft book.
• Expansion Scheme F was approved by the Cabinet on 25.02.36 and was to be completed on 31.03.39 included a requirement for 1,491 Battles to equip 28 squadrons as follows:
  • 1,006 to equip 15 regular squadrons (each at 18 I.E. plus reserves) in Bomber Command.
  • 422 to equip 11 auxiliary squadrons (each at 12 I.E. plus reserves) in Bomber Command.
  • 63 in 2 squadrons for the Dominions.
  • After deducting 128 aircraft (out of 155 ordered) from Scheme C there was a requirement for 1,363 additional aircraft.
    • 500 aircraft were ordered from Fairey, Stockport on 23.05.36 for delivery by 31.03.39.
      • 311 were delivered from 05.05.38 to 06.02.39.
      • 189 were delivered from February 1939 to June 1939. See below.
      • That's better than Hawker did with their first contract for 600 Hurricanes and Supermarine did with its first contract for 310 Spitfires. Both firms delivered the last aircraft at least 6 months late.
    • 863 aircraft were ordered from Austin in November 1936 for delivery by 31.03.39.
      • According to the Air Britain book on RAF aircraft from L1000 to N9999 they were delivered between October 1938 & August 1940 and the last 400 were completed as target tugs.
      • According to Michael J.F. Bowyer in "Aircraft for the Few" the first of the 400 Battle target tugs flew on 07.03.40.
  • So far so good, but not for long.
• Subsequent production by Fairey, Stockport.
  • According to the British official history on the Design and Development of Weapons...
    • "The P.13/36 substitution scheme, approved by the Treasury and the Air Council in spring 1937, showed how anxious everyone was not to have any more Battles than was absolutely necessary; all those (189) not expected to be delivered from Fairey’s by 31st March 1939 were to be cancelled."
      • However, ...
    • "In the early spring of 1938 (when Scheme F was receiving hard knocks from the Chancellor of the Exchequer) the Air Council found it necessary to place a certain number of stop-gap orders (the first since Scheme C in 1935) to maintain the level of production during 1938 and 1939, i.e. the date of completion of the existing programme. Both Fairey’s and Austin’s Battle orders came up for review. It was agreed to restore Fairey’s cancelled 189, ... "
      • These are the 189 were delivered from February 1939 to June 1939 referred to above.
    • "Austin’s were soon in trouble over their enlarged order. Mr., later Sir, Ernest Lemon’s review of the prospects of the industry in September 1938 found that Austin’s were heading for a serious deficiency in deliveries by March 1940. The position at Fairey’s was better; so much better that Mr. Lemon considered that extra Battles could be obtained from that source to compensate for Austin’s failure. Accordingly he recommended that 200 more Battles should be ordered which made a total of 855 on order. The firm received the order in 2 instalments, 150 on 1st November 1938 and 50 on 15th December 1938"
      • That is a total of 200 additional aircraft, which were delivered between June 1939 and November 1939.
    • "Another order with Fairey’s for 200 Battles was recommended in December 1938, and placed on 11th February 1939, to maintain the production organisation and labour force until the Manchester programme began. As this presumably could not be until sometime after the completion of Scheme L, Battles were perpetuated even beyond the extra twelve months of life they gained from the exigencies of Scheme L."
      • These aircraft were delivered between November 1939 and May 1940.
      • The last 100 were built as Battle Trainers.
    • "A yet further series of stop-gap orders was thought necessary in April 1939 because of purely industrial problems. 100 Battles without engines were recommended from both Austin’s and Fairey’s ‘on condition that the labour force be increased by 5 per cent, per month in the next few months’. The form that these last two took shows that the Battle was considered redundant for operational use and no effort seems to have been made to lengthen its operational life by means of modifications, probably because by 1938 there was a prospect of a sufficiency of other suitable types for first-line purposes. The usual fate of obsolete aircraft is to be turned over to Training Command and the Battle finished its career in this way. At the outbreak of war it was decided to order 400 as target towers, 300 from Austin’s and 100 from Fairey’s."
      • The 100 aircraft ordered from Fairey (on 29.09.39) were delivered between May 1940 and November 1940.
      • All 100 aircraft were built as Battle Trainers.
  • So to summarise ...
    • 655 aircraft on order in the spring of 1937 when 189 were cancelled only to be reinstated (with new serial numbers) in the spring of 1938.
    • 500 aircraft (300 bombers and 200 trainers) ordered between November 1938 and September 1939.
    • Making a total of 1,155 Battles built by Fairey (including 200 trainers) delivered between May 1937 and November 1940.
• Subsequent production by Austin.
  • According to the British official history on the Design and Development of Weapons...
    • "A yet further series of stop-gap orders was thought necessary in April 1939 because of purely industrial problems. 100 Battles without engines were recommended from both Austin’s and Fairey’s ‘on condition that the labour force be increased by 5 per cent, per month in the next few months’. The form that these last two took shows that the Battle was considered redundant for operational use and no effort seems to have been made to lengthen its operational life by means of modifications, probably because by 1938 there was a prospect of a sufficiency of other suitable types for first-line purposes. The usual fate of obsolete aircraft is to be turned over to Training Command and the Battle finished its career in this way. At the outbreak of war it was decided to order 400 as target towers, 300 from Austin’s and 100 from Fairey’s."
    • The result was that 400 additional Battles were ordered from Austin as follows:
      • 100 on 27.06.39, which were delivered between October 1939 and May 1940 which were built as bombers.
      • 300 on 29.09.39, which were ordered as target tugs, but according to the British Official History of the Design and Development of Weapons.
        • "Total number on order from Austin’s was 1,263. The number was reduced by 334 to 929, but an extra 100 were produced by Austin’s to carry them over their changeover to Stirlings." Thus there was a net reduction of 234 aircraft.
        • It also says that the date of the reduction by 334 aircraft was 07.11.40.
          • However, I think this is a typo for 07.11.39, because the book also says that the last Austin built Battle was delivered in November 1940.
          • Plus the Air Britain RAF Aircraft books say that the last Austin built Battle was delivered in October 1940. See below.
        • Therefore, 66 Battle target tugs from the September 1939 order were actually built.
          • They were delivered between August and October 1940.
  • So to summarise ...
    • 863 aircraft on order in June 1939.
    • 400 aircraft ordered between June and September 1939, which increased the total to 1,263 aircraft.
      • 334 cancelled on 07.11.39, which reduced the total to 929.
      • 100 reinstated to to carry Austin over their changeover to Stirlings.
    • Making a total of 1,029 Battles built by Austin (including 466 target tugs) delivered between May 1937 and October 1940.
      • The 563 bombers were delivered between October 1938 and May 1940.
      • The 466 target tugs were delivered between March and October 1940.
• As already related the 500 extra Battles that were ordered from Fairey in 1938 & 1939 were to keep its Stockport factory working until it could retool to build Avro Manchesters. The Firm received a contract for 150 of these aircraft in September 1939 but the contract was cancelled before any were built.
  • However, Fairey's Stockport factory did build the following aircraft for the RAF.
    • 500 Bristol Beaufighters which were delivered from February 1941 to May 1943.
    • 602 Handley Page Halifaxes which were delivered from October 1942 to October 1945.
  • The Factory also built the following aircraft for the RN.
    • 600 Fairey Fulmars - the first aircraft flew in January 1940 and the last was delivered in February 1943.
    • 1,160 Fairey Barracudas which were delivered from January 1943 to October 1947.
• As already related the 400 extra Battles that were ordered from Austin in June and September 1939 were to keep the factory working until it could retool to build the Short Stirling.
  • 620 Short Stirlings were built by Austin, which were delivered between December 1940 and January 1945.
    • The Factory also built.
  • 300 Hawker Hurricanes, which were delivered between February 1941 and October 1942.
  • 330 Avro Lancasters, which were delivered between March 1944 and January 1946.

 

[PMN1]

What-if Bristol built a (fictional) thin-wing Beaufighter?
Could it have flown as fast as a Mosquito?

The Bristol H.7/42 described in BSP Fighters and Bombers 1935 to 1950 is an interesting design, though not Mosquito speed.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

I forgot about this one.

Fairey Bombers
Part Two
The Real Specification P.4/34 - Light Day Bomber - Issued to Tender 12.11.34​

• Spec. P.27/32 described in Post 57 was the first attempt to produce an aircraft to replace the Hawker Hart family of light bombers. It called for an aircraft that could carry 1,000lb of bombs 1,000 miles at 200mph.
• Spec. P.4/34 was the second attempt to produce an aircraft to replace the Hart and called for an aircraft that was to be fully stressed for dive recovery with a full bomb load (500lb internally stowed) with a maximum speed in the order of 300mph.
• Pairs of prototypes were ordered from Fairey and Hawker. Unfortunately, I don't know when.
  • The Fairey P.4/34 prototypes flew on 13.01.37 and 19.04.37 respectively.
  • The Hawker P.4/34 prototypes flew on 10.04.37 and 26.05.38 respectively.
  • The Hawker aircraft could carry its bombs internally and the Fairey P.4/34 carried its bombs on external racks.
• Neither type served with the RAF as a day bomber. This was because the Service had decided to concentrate on Medium and Heavy Bombers by the time the first (and only) RAF production contract was let.
  • Although the A.W.29 & Fairey Battle were designed to replace the Hart they were classed as Medium Bombers (Single Engine) in Scheme F and I presume was because they could carry twice the weight of bombs as a Hart & the same weight of bombs as a Blenheim.
  • Whereas the Fairey P.4/34 and Henley were classed as Light Bombers because they carried the same weight of bombs as a Hart.
• The Hawker P.4/34 was given the name Henley and 400 were ordered from Gloster (not Hawker) in June 1936 as part of Expansion Scheme F.
  • However, the order was reduced to 200 in May 1937.
  • The documents I have about the aircraft required for Scheme F have the Henley in the trainers section and they were called "Armament Trainers".
  • The 200 aircraft that were built were used as target tugs.
  • They were delivered from November 1938 to September 1940.
  • The RAF had 122 on charge at the outbreak of World War II.
  • Incidentally Specs. P.27/32 & P.4/34 were issued nearly 18 years apart (12.04.33 and 12.11.34) and the Battle & Henley entered service 18 months apart (May 1937 and November 1938).
• The Fairey P.4/34 was developed into the Fulmar naval fighter which was built to Specification O.8/34.
  • 600 Fairey Fulmars were built.
  • The first aircraft flew in January 1940 and the last was delivered in February 1943.