Northrop Grumman "RQ-180"

[xstatic3000]

You might want to read Flateric's post again - these pictures are admitted fakes.

 

[quellish]

More relevant are the rumours something new has moved into the Edwards South Base, maybe this?

W912PL-16-S-0005

 

[xstatic3000]

More relevant are the rumours something new has moved into the Edwards South Base, maybe this?

W912PL-16-S-0005

So Sources Sought in December - they are probably refining requirements and finalizing the solicitation. This should probably hit the street in a few weeks. Interesting that it's USACE, but they support all branches of service in the name of "jointness". ;D

 

[quellish]

So Sources Sought in December - they are probably refining requirements and finalizing the solicitation. This should probably hit the street in a few weeks. Interesting that it's USACE, but they support all branches of service in the name of "jointness". ;D

USACE does almost all milcon in SoCal.
The CTF in question is for global strike/LRS.
There is also an ongoing environmental cleanup at South Base.
It is not clear if this solicitation uses the 77.130m allocated for LRS-B milcon, though that money was RDTE and specifically not for hangars/buildings.

 

[xstatic3000]

If the $77M is strictly RDT&E then yes, this solicitation would use a different MILCON funding stream. However, I could write a book full of stories of program offices trying to use RDT&E funds for all sorts of construction and infrastructure programs.

 

[Flyaway]

You might want to read Flateric's post again - these pictures are admitted fakes.

These are separate rumours not on that site and nothing to do with those fakes.

 

[NeilChapman]

More relevant are the rumours something new has moved into the Edwards South Base, maybe this?

W912PL-16-S-0005

Description of Work:
This project will restore/alter four (4) Aircraft Maintenance Hangars, associated out-buildings, taxi/parking ramps and construct aircraft shade canopies to support Developmental Test (DT) and Operational Test (OT) utilizing economical design and construction methods to accommodate the mission. Additionally, a 149 SM covered building will be constructed to house fire suppression pumping systems to allow open fuel tank maintenance in one hangar.

--

North Base used to have four hangers. Looks like two of them are still there depending on the Google Earth images. The larger is ~150' wide, the smaller ~100' wide. I'd guess that the other two hangers were ~100' wide similar to the smaller but half the depth based on the pad.

Looks like a lot of work if this area is for RQ with a wingspan over 120'. The ramp concrete is a mess.

 

[quellish]

If the $77M is strictly RDT&E then yes, this solicitation would use a different MILCON funding stream. However, I could write a book full of stories of program offices trying to use RDT&E funds for all sorts of construction and infrastructure programs.

It is milcon that is specifically for RDTE facilities other than buildings/hangars.
Also interesting is the related item from the same account, project, and PE for $3m for munitions storage. All of this is at a classified CONUS location - which would not typically include Edwards.

If there is an "RQ-180" it is not owned or funded by DoD or NRO. There is no unit to fly it. The AvWeek article written in 2013 mentioned NG constructing engine run facilities at Palmdale as evidence for the "RQ-180". The AvWeek article also mentioned NG financial reports indicating an unmanned system had moved into low rate production.

The Palmdale facilities are used for GlobalHawk engine runs and are easily visible (and audible) from public land. They were pretty clearly designed for the GlobalHawk dimensions and needs. At the time there were several projects ramping up with GlobalHawk - AGS, Triton, etc. NG was ramping up other UAV/UAS product lines as well. I have not been able to find the financial reports that specifically describe an unmanned system moving into low rate production in 2012/2013, however the financial reports I have seen indicate the growth of the GlobalHawk-related businesses as well as a "forward loss recognized on a restricted program".

So far it does not seem likely that the "RQ-180" as described exists.

 

[NeilChapman]

So Sources Sought in December - they are probably refining requirements and finalizing the solicitation. This should probably hit the street in a few weeks. Interesting that it's USACE, but they support all branches of service in the name of "jointness". ;D

USACE does almost all milcon in SoCal.
The CTF in question is for global strike/LRS.
There is also an ongoing environmental cleanup at South Base.
It is not clear if this solicitation uses the 77.130m allocated for LRS-B milcon, though that money was RDTE and specifically not for hangars/buildings.

South Base has four hangers as well.

In reading through the EPA docs it looks like the biggest environmental problem at South Base was leaking JP4 tanks in the 70's and 80's and material from an old gas station and auto shop. The ongoing environmental cleanup is to restore groundwater that was was contaminated. This shouldn't affect any plans to revamp the four hangers and flight line areas though.

South Base seems to have the advantage of being much more convenient for personnel as well as more secluded from civilians.

 

[The Wave]

-removed-

 

[GreenBullet]

Is this a concept/artist image? Is this a different drone? I am unable to tell due to all the equipment. I apologize if it is, but I thought I'd post the picture, it seemed interesting.

X-47B.

 

[Flyaway]

If the $77M is strictly RDT&E then yes, this solicitation would use a different MILCON funding stream. However, I could write a book full of stories of program offices trying to use RDT&E funds for all sorts of construction and infrastructure programs.

It is milcon that is specifically for RDTE facilities other than buildings/hangars.
Also interesting is the related item from the same account, project, and PE for $3m for munitions storage. All of this is at a classified CONUS location - which would not typically include Edwards.

If there is an "RQ-180" it is not owned or funded by DoD or NRO. There is no unit to fly it. The AvWeek article written in 2013 mentioned NG constructing engine run facilities at Palmdale as evidence for the "RQ-180". The AvWeek article also mentioned NG financial reports indicating an unmanned system had moved into low rate production.

The Palmdale facilities are used for GlobalHawk engine runs and are easily visible (and audible) from public land. They were pretty clearly designed for the GlobalHawk dimensions and needs. At the time there were several projects ramping up with GlobalHawk - AGS, Triton, etc. NG was ramping up other UAV/UAS product lines as well. I have not been able to find the financial reports that specifically describe an unmanned system moving into low rate production in 2012/2013, however the financial reports I have seen indicate the growth of the GlobalHawk-related businesses as well as a "forward loss recognized on a restricted program".

So far it does not seem likely that the "RQ-180" as described exists.

But surely hiding a program like the RQ-180 within another one such as the Global Hawk would be an obvious thing to do?

 

[quellish]

But surely hiding a program like the RQ-180 within another one such as the Global Hawk would be an obvious thing to do?

That would be very illegal. The system does not work that way.

 

[bipa]

But surely hiding a program like the RQ-180 within another one such as the Global Hawk would be an obvious thing to do?

That would be very illegal. The system does not work that way.

What about the RQ-170? Wasn't the program somehow hidden?

 

[quellish]

What about the RQ-170? Wasn't the program somehow hidden?

RQ-170 is funded by both DoD and the intelligence community. The DoD funding activity is not hidden. It also does not have a flashing neon sign attached to it saying "SECRET STEALTH DRONE".

 

[XP67_Moonbat]

Exactly!

 

[Steve Pace]

I talked with LM Skunk Works Public Affairs last week and they STILL cannot talk about the RQ-170. Moreover, there are ZERO official, released photographs of it. -SP

 

[quellish]

I talked with LM Skunk Works Public Affairs last week and they STILL cannot talk about the RQ-170. Moreover, there are ZERO official, released photographs of it. -SP

Many of them are forward deployed but you can see them flying out of Creech regularly.

 

[Flyaway]

I talked with LM Skunk Works Public Affairs last week and they STILL cannot talk about the RQ-170. Moreover, there are ZERO official, released photographs of it. -SP

Many of them are forward deployed but you can see them flying out of Creech regularly.

That's where that documentary maker caught one on film a little while back with its very distinctive engine sound.

 

[Flyaway]

USAF Reaching For Stealthy Surveillance Drones

The U.S. Air Force is “aggressively” pursuing a long-range, stealthy unmanned surveillance aircraft to go places its high-altitude Lockheed Martin U-2S and Northrop Grumman RQ-4 Global Hawk cannot, according to the Pentagon’s director for defense intelligence warfighter support, Lt. Gen. Jack ...

USAF Reaching For Stealthy Surveillance Drones | Aviation Week Network

The U.S. Air Force wants a long-range, stealthy unmanned surveillance aircraft to go places the Lockheed Martin U-2S and Northrop Grumman RQ-4 Global Hawk can't.

m.aviationweek.com

They've illustrated this with their prior image of the alleged RQ-180.

 

[dark sidius]

We don't know what it look like and if it realy exist so the pictures are just speculation.

 

[GreenBullet]

That's where that documentary maker caught one on film a little while back with its very distinctive engine sound.

What's the documentary called, or where can I find the video? Thanks.

 

[Flyaway]

We don't know what it look like and if it realy exist so the pictures are just speculation.

And that's why I said alleged.

 

[Mat Parry]

That's where that documentary maker caught one on film a little while back with its very distinctive engine sound.

What's the documentary called, or where can I find the video? Thanks.

Whilst I can't be sure this is the video that Flyaway was referring to, the link below does show an Rq-170 in flight (sounding like an imperial tie fighter). Jog on to 23min 30 sec if you aren't interested in Trevor Peglan's work (this would be a mistake IMHO).

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SdYKLBQS6m4

 

[GreenBullet]

Ah, thank you so much. I'm familiar with Paglen, gotta get his book.

 

[Flyaway]

Yep that's the one. Sorry by the way that I missed your question.

 

[quellish]

http://www.airforcemag.com/DRArchive/Pages/2014/June%202014/June%2010%202014/For-Those-Hard-to-Reach-Areas.aspx


For Those Hard-to-Reach Areas
Air Force Intelligence, Surveillance, and
Reconnaissance chief Lt. Gen. Bob Otto said the
service is working on the RQ-180 remotely piloted
aircraft to give it better access to contested
airspace, where the unmanned RQ-4 Global Hawk
and manned U-2S platforms are vulnerable. Otto
declined to provide details about the aircraft in
comments to Air Force Magazine after his June 9
address in Arlington, Va., that AFA’s Mitchell
Institute for Aerospace Studies sponsored. He did
say the Air Force still needs the Global Hawk for
“run-of-the-mill” operations. However, there are
limits to its ability to image from standoff
distances, and both it and the U-2 have “problems”
seeing through or operating in bad weather, said
Otto. During his speech, he mentioned “new”
research and development to produce sensors that
can get at “difficult-to-target” objects. For
budgetary reasons, the Air Force position is that it
needs “only one high-altitude reconnaissance
platform” and it’s the RQ-4, not the U-2, said Otto
in his speech. He didn’t say where the RQ-180 fits
in the mix, but did say the Air Force is “over-
invested in permissive [area] assets” in ISR.
—John A. Tirpak
6/10/2014

Just to put an end to the persistent idea that Let. Gen Otto "confirmed" the "RQ-180" in this talk I paid a service to transcribe his talk. The transcription is attached. You will see no mention of an RQ-180.

Lt. Gen. Otto never said "the service is working on the RQ-180 remotely piloted aircraft to give it better access to contested airspace". The author of the article made that up.

 

[sublight_]

General Otto confirmed it to Tirpak in a sidebar conversation after the presentation.

 

[quellish]

General Otto confirmed it to Tirpak in a sidebar conversation after the presentation.

Do you have a source for that?

 

[Flyaway]

It’s now believed to be operational. Article includes updated artist impression.

http://m.aviationweek.com/defense/usaf-unit-moves-rev

 

[Deino]

No longer available?

 

[dark sidius]

? Look not

 

[Flyaway]

The article is getting heavy traffic. Text below:

Almost six years after Aviation Week first disclosed the existence of a large, classified unmanned aircraft developed by Northrop Grumman, there is a growing body of evidence that the stealthy vehicle is now fully operational with the U.S. Air Force in a penetrating intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) role.

Thought to be dubbed the RQ-180, the advanced design is believed to have been flying since 2010 and under operational test and evaluation since late 2014. According to new information provided to Aviation Week, the aircraft became operational with the recently reformed 427th Reconnaissance Sqdn. at Beale AFB, California, this year. The Air Force declined to comment on the status of the program.

RQ-180 First flight believed to have occurred in 2010

At least seven vehicles have been developed and are in operation

Although images of the aircraft remain elusive, an assessment of new evidence enables a clearer picture to be drawn of the secret aircraft’s progress through early flight testing, development and initial deployment. New information from open sources backs up the first reports of its existence published in 2013 and fills in gaps in the program’s earlier history as well as subsequent test and operational evaluation at sites mostly in and around California and Nevada.

RQ-180 operational test and evaluation is believed to have begun in 2014. Credit: Colin-Throm/AW&ST


Developed to conduct the penetrating ISR mission that has been left unaddressed since the retirement of the Lockheed SR-71 in 1999, the RQ-180 ultimately emerged from what was originally a large unmanned combat air vehicle (UCAV) design proposed by Northrop Grumman to the Air Force in 2005. At the time, Northrop was competing against Boeing with a smaller tailless design for the Air Force/U.S. Navy Joint Unmanned Combat Air Systems (J-UCAS) program.

However, when J-UCAS was canceled in 2006 after the Pentagon’s Quadrennial Defense Review opted to restructure the joint-service program into a Navy-only UCAV carrier suitability demonstration, funding was removed from the fiscal 2007 defense budget request. A total of $239 million was requested in lieu of the Pentagon funding to begin a U.S. Navy carrier-based, long-endurance UCAV demonstration program.

At the same time, Air Force funds were transferred into a classified high-altitude, long-endurance (HALE) program which, it is believed, led to a competition between Boeing, Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman. Northrop also publicly discussed a range of longer-winged X-47C configurations around this time. The largest of these was a 172-ft.-span design with two engines derived from General Electric’s CF34 and capable of carrying a 10,000-lb. weapon load.

Although Aviation Week commissioned an artists’ impression of the aircraft incorporating a cranked-kite wing configuration when it broke the RQ-180 story (AW&ST Dec. 9, 2013, p. 20), industry sources have since said the aircraft differs in detail from the published concept. Additional evidence now suggests the final configuration may be closer to the company’s more familiar flying-wing designs, with a simpler trailing edge similar to that seen in the Air Force’s official rendering of the B-21 Raider. Northrop Grumman originally crafted the same basic trailing edge configuration for the B-2 under the Advanced Tactical Bomber program but changed it to the stronger load-carrying sawtooth design when the Air Force added the low-level penetration role.

The RQ-180 design also was likely strongly influenced by Northrop Grumman’s work for the Air Force Research Laboratory’s (AFRL) SensorCraft project, aimed at developing technologies for future stealthy, high-altitude unmanned surveillance platforms. In 2002, AFRL unveiled several SensorCraft vehicle studies, including a Northrop Grumman flying wing with a highly loaded airfoil capable of handling large aeroelastic deflections. Two years later, the company revealed it was partnering with AFRL to mature advanced conformal antenna integration technology for SensorCraft under a five-year, $12 million effort called the Low-Band Structural Array (Lobstar) program. At the time, the company said Lobstar would “enhance the surveillance capabilities of aerial vehicles by embedding antennas in the primary load-bearing structures of composite aircraft wings.”

In 2007, following a yearlong Air Force HALE contest, Northrop signaled it had been successful when the corporation’s leaders reported they expected to win a major restricted program. By June of that year, observers of the Air Force’s top-secret Area 51 test complex at Nellis AFB, Nevada, noted that construction was underway for a new large hangar at the “Southend” zone of the Groom Lake facility. The size and dimensions of the building suggested it was being made ready for an aircraft with a relatively large span wing.

As the new Groom Lake hangar neared completion in early 2008, Northrop Grumman’s financial reports revealed the company had been awarded a large classified aircraft development contract valued at $2 billion for an operational ISR UAV with an unprecedented combination of extreme low-observable (LO) features and aerodynamic efficiency. The development effort was undertaken by Northrop Grumman’s Advanced Technology Development Center, the equivalent of Lockheed Martin’s Skunk Works or Boeing’s Phantom Works.

In 2009, with Northrop well underway on low-rate initial production of the RQ-180, the Air Force began preparations to evaluate the new vehicle and established a flight-test organization at Groom Lake dubbed the “Mad Hatters.” That same year, the Air Force published an “unmanned aircraft systems (UAS) flight plan” which outlined a near-term priority requirement for an LO penetrating ISR “special category” UAS. In February 2009, a paper by Col. Eric Mathewson, director of the Air Force’s UAS Task Force, referred to an unidentified project as MQ-L/O. (AW&ST Aug. 29, 2011, p. 46).

New information given to Aviation Week now points to 2010 as the key year for the program. First flight of the prototype air vehicle at Groom Lake, known as V1, was believed to have taken place on Aug. 3, 2010. Circumstantial evidence that supported the buildup of pre-first-flight test activity included frequent flights to the site by Northrop Grumman-owned Beech 1900D logistics aircraft, one of which was seen parked by the large Southend hangar in a May 2010 satellite image.

The first prototype, V1, had been in flight testing for more than 14 months when a second vehicle, V2, is thought to have joined the test campaign in November 2011. Three more test and development aircraft are also suspected of following the first vehicles into flight trials over the next 15 months, with first flights believed to have occurred in November 2012 (V3), July 2013 (V4) and February 2014 (V5).

Following the first flight of the fifth aircraft, RQ-180 testing transitioned to Edwards AFB, California, where Detachment 1 of the 53rd Test and Evaluation Group was officially stood up at the secretive South Base area in March 2014. Tasked with operational test and evaluation, Detachment 1 appears to be a logical choice for the role as the group’s Detachment 2, based at Beale AFB, California, performed evaluations of the Lockheed Martin U-2R/S and RQ-4 Global Hawk.

Activity in the program stepped up through the remainder of the year, with the first flight of V6 believed to have taken place in September 2014. In late 2014 and early 2015, a unit described as Detachment 2 of the 15th Test Flight was stood up at Edwards AFB, likely marking another key phase for acceleration of the new UAS capability toward front-line operational service.

The 15th Test Flight, part of the 53rd Wing headquartered at Eglin AFB, Florida, has responsibility for test management oversight of the Air Force’s high-priority, rapid acquisition programs. According to 53rd Wing instruction documents published in 2014 and updated in 2018, the 15th Test Flight “provides operational test management services for a specific subset of developmental systems that require expedited delivery to the warfighter.” Detachment 2’s sister unit, Detachment 1, was assigned at the time to provide test management of Lockheed’s RQ-170 Sentinel at Creech AFB, Nevada.

In November 2015, the program marked another significant event—believed to be the first flight of the seventh air vehicle. Eight months later, the system took another step toward its operational debut when Detachment 2 of the 9th Operations Group was established at Edwards South Base. The 9th Operations Group is the operational flying component of the Beale-based 9th Reconnaissance Wing and is usually tasked with training and equipping U-2R, RQ-4 and Beechcraft MC-12W Liberty combat elements.

Following the establishment of Detachment 2 in 2016, preparations for initial operations entered the final phases and are believed to have culminated in a secret long-range graduation test mission from Edwards sometime in early 2017. No details of the flight, thought to have been code-named Project Magellan, have been acknowledged, but the mission is thought to have focused on validating the performance of the autonomous navigation system at extremely high latitudes—possibly as high as the Geographic North Pole. It should be noted the secret code name was shared with Northrop Grumman’s public search to find an engineering base for the B-21 program around that time.

With this mission accomplished, the RQ-180 was seemingly fit for initial deployment in 2017. And in quick succession during August that year, the 9th Operations Group stood up two new supporting units. Detachment 3 was established at Beale, while Detachment 4 was set up at Andersen AFB, Guam, representing a significant ramp-up in preparations for operational readiness. Detachment 3 had previously operated the RQ-4 out of Guam, while Detachment 4 had also formerly operated the Global Hawk out of Sigonella AB, Italy.

The following year, 2018, another unit was established at Beale to further test and evaluate the readiness of the aircraft. The activation of Detachment 3 of the 605th Test and Evaluation Sqdn., the command-and-control and ISR test manager for the Air Force’s Warfare Center and Air Combat Command, was accompanied by the deactivation of Detachment 1 of the 53rd Test and Evaluation Group at Edwards AFB.

The assets and test personnel of the unit were believed to be immediately transferred to the newly activated 417th Test and Evaluation Sqdn., a unit which previously tested the C-17 and YAL-1 airborne laser. Until recently, the true test focus of the squadron—which was stood up in April 2018—was linked with preparations for B-21 testing. However, at this year’s Air Force Association meeting in September, it was announced that the new bomber test role has been assigned to the 420th Test and Evaluation Sqdn.

Further signs of RQ-180 regular operations support activity are believed to have been indicated by the activation during 2018 and early 2019 of Detachment 5 of the 9th Operations Group at Beale to serve as the schoolhouse unit for the aircraft. Given the 9th Operations Group’s role in training, planning and execution of U-2 ISR missions as well as training for RQ-4 flight crewmembers, this unit would be considered as a logical candidate to support and train RQ-180 operations.

In a final phase of changes this year, all of which have been focused on Beale, Detachment 3 of the 9th Operations Group was deactivated in April and its personnel and assets transferred and immediately activated again as the 427th Reconnaissance Sqdn.—a shadowy unit that previously operated the MC-12W and was inactivated in November 2015 when these aircraft were transferred to the U.S. Army. However, evidence from open sources indicates the current commander of the 427th Reconnaissance Sqdn. has held this role since 2015, even though the unit officially did not exist for most of that period.

Although the Air Force has made no reference to operations by the unit involving any particular aircraft type, the 427th Reconnaissance Sqdn., together with Detachment 5 of the 9th Operations Group and Detachment 3 of the 605th Test and Evaluation Group, hosted the opening of a new Common Mission Control Center at the base on April 23. The the new center will “provide combatant commanders scalable, tailorable products and services for use in contested environments,” the Air Force says. “Using software, hardware and human machines, the center will be able to manage C2 productivity, shorten the task execution chain, and reduce human-intensive communication.”

 

[Mike OTDP]

If that timeline is correct, it indicates massive software problems, most likely with the sensor suite. That, and the effects that the normal acquisition process has on a program. The RQ-4 Global Hawk had its first flight 28 Feb 1998, and was in combat in late 2001/early 2002...four years later.

 

[rooster]

But if true, it was covering the captain 0 years in office. I can see him allowing limited development just to kick the can down the road for another president to put it into action. Hence the long timeline.

Just spotted the first pic on google. https://www.google.com/search?oe=ut...ce=browser-type&devloc=0#imgrc=2gnhRCt7hd2U6M:

 

[DWG]

If that timeline is correct, it indicates massive software problems, most likely with the sensor suite.

Programme award : 2007
First flight : 2010
Service testing : 2014
Training org stands up : end 2015
Operational readiness demonstrated : 2017
Doesn't seem outrageous to me, positively speedy compared to recent manned aircraft.

 

[aim9xray]

* sigh *

Artwork FAIL.

 

[Flyaway]

That article is odd as for something that starts off saying they have a few new details it ends up reading like a press release with the level of detail. Even down to the slightly deliberately off artwork you get with classified programs. Also the timing is interesting, as just after we see a number of new Chinese UAVs displayed we get this info bomb.

 

[TomcatViP]

Perhaps that we will be gratified with a press disclosure next.

 

[Flyaway]

Perhaps that we will be gratified with a press disclosure next.

I wonder if having achieved IOC it will be based somewhere where it might be seen?