Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider (LRS-B)

[Forest Green]

Doesn't necessarily mean it can't, I mean it has to land and take-off.

 

[Josh_TN]

Doesn't necessarily mean it can't, I mean it has to land and take-off.

Fair enough. Let’s just agree that if the rendering is correct, any low flying willl be rough and take a lot of life off the aircraft.

 

[Forest Green]

Fair enough. Let’s just agree that if the rendering is correct, any low flying willl be rough and take a lot of life off the aircraft.

Maybe, maybe not. Vulcan was never designed for low altitude and yet it proved good at it.

 

[Foo Fighter]

Vulcan airframe was thoroughly ^$agged, to keep XH558 in the air for even one more display season would have meant rebuilding the wings as well as the engines.

 

[Forest Green]

Vulcan airframe was thoroughly ^$agged, to keep XH558 in the air for even one more display season would have meant rebuilding the wings as well as the engines.

Yeah, and that plane is how old? 63 years.

Avro Vulcan XH558 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Sundog]

Doesn't necessarily mean it can't, I mean it has to land and take-off.

Actually, it means exactly that. It has to do with the loads and ride quality due to gust response. When the B-21 is landing and taking off it will be flying slower than it's operational speed. So, when it's down low, it will be flying at a much lower mach number than it flies at when up high. This is due to the fact that we know stealth tech works well now. When the B-2 was built, they still didn't know if it would work as well as they wanted and for how long. So, the B-2 was built with NOE capability. But it paid a weight penalty for that and gave up some cruise efficiency as a result.

 

[Foo Fighter]

Vulcan airframe was thoroughly ^$agged, to keep XH558 in the air for even one more display season would have meant rebuilding the wings as well as the engines.

Yeah, and that plane is how old? 63 years.

Avro Vulcan XH558 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

They were beyond operational use when they were retired, they couyld have gone through a rebuild then but the decision was made to retire them. There was a partial rebuild to get XH558 airworthy for the show circuit but not sufficient for operational use.

 

[Forest Green]

They were beyond operational use when they were retired, they couyld have gone through a rebuild then but the decision was made to retire them. There was a partial rebuild to get XH558 airworthy for the show circuit but not sufficient for operational use.

Well they stop maintaining them once a decision has been made to retire them. It had a decent innings though.

 

[X-39]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rdxq2tMOJA

 

[Forest Green]

B-21: Shape of the Future | Air & Space Forces Magazine

With the B-21 rollout, the Air Force begins recapitalizing the bomber force.

www.airandspaceforces.com

 

[raptor82]

IIRC, this is new :

 

[OliverSedlacek]

They should be recruiting more ugly bastards like myself. I'd know something was up if any women hit on me.

This would make a good movie... and a better reality: hire ugly fellers to be the public face of some secret program. Hot spies start hitting on them. The ugly guys... they go for it. They score just as much as they possibly can, which makes them happy... and they feed the spies nonsense and false info, which makes the spies - and the CIA - happy.

I remember being amused by one of the Adam Hall Quiller cold war spy books where he spends a night with some female lady of easy virtue and when she tries to pump him for information he spins an amusing yarn that no native English speaker would fall for.

 

[Orionblamblam]

I remember being amused by one of the Adam Hall Quiller cold war spy books where he spends a night with some female lady of easy virtue and when she tries to pump him for information he spins an amusing yarn that no native English speaker would fall for.

Ah. *English* English...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIaiW1XrzxA

 

[bobbymike]

JUST IN: B-21 Will Send Message to Adversaries, Official Says

JUST IN: B-21 Will Send Message to Adversaries, Official Says

www.nationaldefensemagazine.org

 

[Forest Green]

Currently, the Air Force intends to procure up to 100 B-21s. A Mitchell Institute report in March called for the Air Force to procure 225 B-21s to deter China.

 

[In_A_Dream]

Currently, the Air Force intends to procure up to 100 B-21s. A Mitchell Institute report in March called for the Air Force to procure 225 B-21s to deter China.

How many are we going to have by 2027?

 

[totoro]

Four? (not counting prototypes)

 

[FighterJock]

Talking of B-21 prototypes I wonder if they will enter service like the B-2 prototypes did, I cannot see them getting scrapped.

 

[Josh_TN]

Talking of B-21 prototypes I wonder if they will enter service like the B-2 prototypes did, I cannot see them getting scrapped.

I think four of the six under construction/completed are EDM aircraft, and I'd be shocked if they weren't upgraded to production standard at some point. They were apparently made using the production tooling. As to how many aircraft are available by when, I've not seen any numbers in print. I believe a LRIP contract is signed.

 

[FighterJock]

Good news to hear that a LRIP contract for the B-21 has now been signed, things are certainly moving along fast for the Raider.

 

[Hydroman]

If B-21 follows the B-2 path, the following?

AV1, taxi testing, first flight, loads, handling qualities.
AV2, primary loads, handling qualities, flutter, etc.
AV3, primary avionics aircraft, DT&E/OT&E.
AV4, primary weapons aircraft, DT&E/OT&E.
AV5, climatic testing, OT&E.
AV6, OT&E, TO validation/verification.

I could be wrong given the latest in modeling and simulation tools/techniques available now. I assume all aircraft are manufactured using production tooling.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Interesting that there isn't any visible dogtoothing around the cockpit windows...

 

[Josh_TN]

Interesting that there isn't any visible dogtoothing around the cockpit windows...

...or anywhere on the airframe. It is eerily featureless.

 

[FighterJock]

Quite possible Northrop do not need dogtoothing for the B-21 unlike the B-2 perhaps they have found ways of getting around the issue.

 

[flateric]

Quite possible Northrop do not need dogtoothing for the B-21 unlike the B-2

Unlike?

 

[Josh_TN]

Quite possible Northrop do not need dogtoothing for the B-21 unlike the B-2 perhaps they have found ways of getting around the issue.

I do think we are looking at much newer coating technology, though I'm not sure it is unprecedented - the F-35 doesn't use a lot of saw toothing either.

 

[Hydroman]

Notice no visible air data ports on the aircraft.

 

[sferrin]

Quite possible Northrop do not need dogtoothing for the B-21 unlike the B-2 perhaps they have found ways of getting around the issue.

"Dogtoothing"?

 

[X-39]

Quite possible Northrop do not need dogtoothing for the B-21 unlike the B-2

Unlike?

Imagine if NGB didn't get canned and we had gotten this instead of the B-21:

 

[flateric]

Notice no visible air data ports on the aircraft.

They may be taped over like AINS window during B-2 rollout. Or it may be lasers (those require apertures too though).

 

[quellish]

Quite possible Northrop do not need dogtoothing for the B-21 unlike the B-2 perhaps they have found ways of getting around the issue.

I believe China has bought up all sawtooth production for the J-20.

*curses supply chain*

 

[bobbymike]

Quite possible Northrop do not need dogtoothing for the B-21 unlike the B-2

Unlike?

Imagine if NGB didn't get canned and we had gotten this instead of the B-21:

Make a sexy NGAD design

 

[Josh_TN]

Quite possible Northrop do not need dogtoothing for the B-21 unlike the B-2

Unlike?

Imagine if NGB didn't get canned and we had gotten this instead of the B-21:

Imagine if it had been allowed to continue, failed spectacularly, and the US was left with nothing.

 

[DrRansom]

A supersonic medium or heavy bomber would be excellent for the Pacific Theater - gets more missile sorties during the decisive initial period. Would have to be based out of Japan, though.

 

[In_A_Dream]

A supersonic medium or heavy bomber would be excellent for the Pacific Theater - gets more missile sorties during the decisive initial period. Would have to be based out of Japan, though.

Is Project Mayhem dead?

 

[Hydroman]

Notice no visible air data ports on the aircraft.

They may be taped over like AINS window during B-2 rollout. Or it may be lasers (those require apertures too though).

The port holes may be like the YF-23, built into the skin, just cannot see them (or taped over for the rollout) with the sensors mounted to the back of the skin/panel or maybe laser air data? I wonder if the B-21 will use an AINS? AINS was a very pricey piece of equipment but worked very, very well and very reliable.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Quite possible Northrop do not need dogtoothing for the B-21 unlike the B-2 perhaps they have found ways of getting around the issue.

"Dogtoothing"?

The triangular edging on canopies, etc. You see it on the F117, the F22, and even a little on the F35.

 

[Cancerman]

Notice no visible air data ports on the aircraft.

They may be taped over like AINS window during B-2 rollout. Or it may be lasers (those require apertures too though).

The port holes may be like the YF-23, built into the skin, just cannot see them (or taped over for the rollout) with the sensors mounted to the back of the skin/panel or maybe laser air data? I wonder if the B-21 will use an AINS? AINS was a very pricey piece of equipment but worked very, very well and very reliable.

AINS has always been the "Reliable Backup standard" so if GPS interruption should occur. INS is also used in the B2, that may still be on board as well.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Notice no visible air data ports on the aircraft.

They may be taped over like AINS window during B-2 rollout. Or it may be lasers (those require apertures too though).

The port holes may be like the YF-23, built into the skin, just cannot see them (or taped over for the rollout) with the sensors mounted to the back of the skin/panel or maybe laser air data? I wonder if the B-21 will use an AINS? AINS was a very pricey piece of equipment but worked very, very well and very reliable.

AINS has always been the "Reliable Backup standard" so if GPS interruption should occur. INS is also used in the B2, that may still be on board as well.

I would expect so.

You kinda want anything nuclear capable to only deliver the boom where ordered.

 

[CiTrus90]

Notice no visible air data ports on the aircraft.

They may be taped over like AINS window during B-2 rollout. Or it may be lasers (those require apertures too though).

The port holes may be like the YF-23, built into the skin, just cannot see them (or taped over for the rollout) with the sensors mounted to the back of the skin/panel or maybe laser air data? I wonder if the B-21 will use an AINS? AINS was a very pricey piece of equipment but worked very, very well and very reliable.

See attached, possibly relevant to the discussion (back from 2008).

Also, I was under the impression the black dots seen in the B-21 intakes from the pics of the rollout were air data sensors? But I might remember wrong...