Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider (LRS-B)

[TomcatViP]

That's what happen when you build an air force base on some locals golf practice:

View: https://youtu.be/de_Dik7HT6E

 

[mkellytx]

As classified B-21 bomber nears flight, secret facility sees more curious 'probing' - Breaking Defense

Home to top secret projects, Air Force's Plant 42 is nirvana for aviation enthusiasts, who apparently sometimes take their interest too far.

breakingdefense.com

I would not like to be one of those aircraft spotters at Plant 42, the security surrounding Plant 42 must be incredibly tight right now considering the B-21 is nearing it's first flight.

Why on Earth did that guy think he’d find a petrol station behind a triple layered barbed wire fence for heaves sake!!!

Now you need to keep in mind that Mr. Smith's call sign when I used to fly with him was "Jester", but it is the Antelope Valley so the guy may really not have known...

 

[mkellytx]

Too much Peyote?

The AV is more of a meth hotspot

 

[Forest Green]

The AV is more of a meth hotspot

That doesn't usually make you see petrol stations where there are none.

Maybe he was dehydrated and saw a mirage like in those comedy films.

 

[NeilChapman]

First flight in 2023? Sloppy reporting or did I miss something?

If it's sloppy reporting, don't give them the benefit by clicking on the link.

B-21 Raider Stealth Bomber: The US Air Force Has Big Plans

At least 100 B-21s, if the Air Force gets its way, would give the service many ways to conduct missions potentially against China or Russia.

www.19fortyfive.com

 

[FighterJock]

First flight in 2023? Sloppy reporting or did I miss something?

If it's sloppy reporting, don't give them the benefit by clicking on the link.

B-21 Raider Stealth Bomber: The US Air Force Has Big Plans

At least 100 B-21s, if the Air Force gets its way, would give the service many ways to conduct missions potentially against China or Russia.

www.19fortyfive.com

I think that it is going to be a lot sooner than 2023 NeilChapman, judging how things are going with the B-21 at present. I just do not know how soon.

 

[Forest Green]

ELO... in other words, a synonym for the crazy low -70dbsm RCS claim.

Where did that claim come from?

 

[flateric]

First flight in 2023? Sloppy reporting or did I miss something?

If it's sloppy reporting, don't give them the benefit by clicking on the link.

B-21 Raider Stealth Bomber: The US Air Force Has Big Plans

At least 100 B-21s, if the Air Force gets its way, would give the service many ways to conduct missions potentially against China or Russia.

www.19fortyfive.com

19fortyfive.com is even worse than National Interest

 

[NeilChapman]

I think that it is going to be a lot sooner than 2023 NeilChapman, judging how things are going with the B-21 at present. I just do not know how soon.

It definitely felt that way. I heard someone mention May a short while back. Then this silly article stating 2023. I figured you guys would know the latest available information.

Thanks

 

[Josh_TN]

Nobody is sure; there are no official dates. But everyone in know has released statements to the effect that program is advancing on schedule and that the EMD aircraft are going to be very close to full production models. Id put money on us seeing a first flight this year.

 

[Bhurki]

Good news that NG has been building new hangers at Plant 42, looks like they are getting ready for full scale production whenever the order comes

Long term procurement for subsystems is already on, consodering the significant growth in B-21 program budget.

USAF awards contract for B-21 long lead items

The US Air Force (USAF) has awarded Northrop Grumman a $108 million contract to procure long lead items for production of the B-21 Raider stealth bomber.

www.flightglobal.com

 

[Cordy]

Nobody is sure; there are no official dates. But everyone in know has released statements to the effect that program is advancing on schedule and that the EMD aircraft are going to be very close to full production models. Id put money on us seeing a first flight this year.

Deputy Defense Secretary Kathleen Hicks speaking during an April 12 Defense Writers Group breakfast seems to confirm the rollout of the B-21, predicted for the April/May timeframe, will happen on schedule.

Hicks to Congress: Be Patient, Allow Some Failures in New Development Programs Like Hypersonics | Air & Space Forces Magazine

Deputy Defense Secretary Kathleen Hicks urged Congress to be more patient with the Pentagon as it develops new systems, like hypersonic missiles.

www.airforcemag.com

 

[FighterJock]

Nobody is sure; there are no official dates. But everyone in know has released statements to the effect that program is advancing on schedule and that the EMD aircraft are going to be very close to full production models. Id put money on us seeing a first flight this year.

Deputy Defense Secretary Kathleen Hicks speaking during an April 12 Defense Writers Group breakfast seems to confirm the rollout of the B-21, predicted for the April/May timeframe, will happen on schedule.

Hicks to Congress: Be Patient, Allow Some Failures in New Development Programs Like Hypersonics | Air & Space Forces Magazine

Deputy Defense Secretary Kathleen Hicks urged Congress to be more patient with the Pentagon as it develops new systems, like hypersonic missiles.

www.airforcemag.com

So the B-21 is going to be rolled out sometime during April or May, I personally cannot wait.

 

[Flyaway]

Nobody is sure; there are no official dates. But everyone in know has released statements to the effect that program is advancing on schedule and that the EMD aircraft are going to be very close to full production models. Id put money on us seeing a first flight this year.

Deputy Defense Secretary Kathleen Hicks speaking during an April 12 Defense Writers Group breakfast seems to confirm the rollout of the B-21, predicted for the April/May timeframe, will happen on schedule.

Hicks to Congress: Be Patient, Allow Some Failures in New Development Programs Like Hypersonics | Air & Space Forces Magazine

Deputy Defense Secretary Kathleen Hicks urged Congress to be more patient with the Pentagon as it develops new systems, like hypersonic missiles.

www.airforcemag.com

Interesting timing….

 

[Josh_TN]

Interesting timing….

In what way? It was pretty much always scheduled to roll out in 2022, though at one point I think there was a rumor of a late 2021 roll out. I suspect it will happen without a lot of fanfare given the current conflict.

 

[FighterJock]

I suspect it will happen without a lot of fanfare given the current conflict.

I will definitely miss the fanfare that normally goes with rollouts.

 

[TomS]

Interesting timing….

The quote is

Hicks was asked where her next trip will be to, and she said “back to California, … very soon,”

It's so weird that they seem to be assuming the only reason she might have for going to California is the B-21 rollout. It's not like there aren't literally dozens of things that might take the Deputy Secretary of Defense there.

For example, she was there just a week earlier to visit LA Air Force Base, NASA, and CalTech.

Deputy Secretary of Defense Dr. Kathleen H. Hicks Meets With Service Members, Researchers,

Deputy Secretary of Defense Dr. Kathleen H. Hicks visited Los Angeles, California, to meet with service members, space-industry small businesses and start-ups; and faculty, students and researchers at

www.defense.gov

 

[NeilChapman]

Interesting timing….

The quote is

Hicks was asked where her next trip will be to, and she said “back to California, … very soon,”

It's so weird that they seem to be assuming the only reason she might have for going to California is the B-21 rollout. It's not like there aren't literally dozens of things that might take the Deputy Secretary of Defense there.

Oh...I could see someone giving an indication of intent; a nod, a look, a gesture. I concede it very well may have been interpreted incorrectly but we humans frequently use body language.

 

[Flyaway]

Interesting timing….

In what way? It was pretty much always scheduled to roll out in 2022, though at one point I think there was a rumor of a late 2021 roll out. I suspect it will happen without a lot of fanfare given the current conflict.

More that it’s now coincidentally interesting timing.

 

[Dagger]

Nobody is sure; there are no official dates. But everyone in know has released statements to the effect that program is advancing on schedule and that the EMD aircraft are going to be very close to full production models. Id put money on us seeing a first flight this year.

Deputy Defense Secretary Kathleen Hicks speaking during an April 12 Defense Writers Group breakfast seems to confirm the rollout of the B-21, predicted for the April/May timeframe, will happen on schedule.

Hicks to Congress: Be Patient, Allow Some Failures in New Development Programs Like Hypersonics | Air & Space Forces Magazine

Deputy Defense Secretary Kathleen Hicks urged Congress to be more patient with the Pentagon as it develops new systems, like hypersonic missiles.

www.airforcemag.com

A roll-out in April or May does not necessarily mean that the project is on schedule. They can roll out an airframe without engines or fuel tanks or electronics or anything else inside that is not visible from the outside. As long as it looks good and has wheels it will do. It's just a show for the media.

First real flight could very well be in 2023. But who knows, maybe they succeed to get it into the air on 31 December for a short hop just for show, with still a lot of things missing inside, so that they can claim that it flew in 2022. A bit like the Tu-144 ("Concordski") that first flew on 31 December 1968.

Don't believe all the propaganda from the USAF, the US DoD and the manufacturer. They usually will not admit delays or problems until they really can't deny it any longer.

 

[rooster]

Nobody is sure; there are no official dates. But everyone in know has released statements to the effect that program is advancing on schedule and that the EMD aircraft are going to be very close to full production models. Id put money on us seeing a first flight this year.

Deputy Defense Secretary Kathleen Hicks speaking during an April 12 Defense Writers Group breakfast seems to confirm the rollout of the B-21, predicted for the April/May timeframe, will happen on schedule.

Hicks to Congress: Be Patient, Allow Some Failures in New Development Programs Like Hypersonics | Air & Space Forces Magazine

Deputy Defense Secretary Kathleen Hicks urged Congress to be more patient with the Pentagon as it develops new systems, like hypersonic missiles.

www.airforcemag.com

A roll-out in April or May does not necessarily mean that the project is on schedule. They can roll out an airframe without engines or fuel tanks or electronics or anything else inside that is not visible from the outside. As long as it looks good and has wheels it will do. It's just a show for the media.

First real flight could very well be in 2023. But who knows, maybe they succeed to get it into the air on 31 December for a short hop just for show, with still a lot of things missing inside, so that they can claim that it flew in 2022. A bit like the Tu-144 ("Concordski") that first flew on 31 December 1968.

Don't believe all the propaganda from the USAF, the US DoD and the manufacturer. They usually will not admit delays or problems until they really can't deny it any longer.

This isn't the ussr parading plywood icbms for a parade.

 

[Hansblix]

I'm curious if there has been anything alluding to advanced tech that will be incorporated in this. There is seemingly a lot of work into meta materials and composites. Even optically. There is a ton of work being done in grey spaces in “academics”.

I think it’s interesting that OXCART incorporated plasma generation to reduce RCS almost from day one with cesium additive and Project KEMPSTER which was an electron beam generator that I’m not sure was implemented. This was in the 60s. 60 years ago.

With the B2. It’s been long rumored that there are 5+ areas or elements that are still unknown to the public.

This seems to be a low cost replacement for an aging and expensive fleet built around lower cost to maintain.

I feel like I’m either missing the hype on this as it’s just a fleet aircraft essentially. Less about innovation.

Or is my mind going to be blown at some point with pocket aces on this aircraft.

 

[TomcatViP]

The revolutionary things that might be identifiable with a direct sighting (or the absence of!) would be:
- distributed exhaust
- fluidic actuators (or the absence of ailerons since it is already presumed that this will be a flying wing)
- visual stealth

 

[bobbymike]

I'm curious if there has been anything alluding to advanced tech that will be incorporated in this. There is seemingly a lot of work into meta materials and composites. Even optically. There is a ton of work being done in grey spaces in “academics”.

I think it’s interesting that OXCART incorporated plasma generation to reduce RCS almost from day one with cesium additive and Project KEMPSTER which was an electron beam generator that I’m not sure was implemented. This was in the 60s. 60 years ago.

With the B2. It’s been long rumored that there are 5+ areas or elements that are still unknown to the public.

This seems to be a low cost replacement for an aging and expensive fleet built around lower cost to maintain.

I feel like I’m either missing the hype on this as it’s just a fleet aircraft essentially. Less about innovation.

Or is my mind going to be blown at some point with pocket aces on this aircraft.

The B-2 was built 30+ years ago there has been billion upon billions spend in black budget R&D some of which will end up in the B-21, you’d think. It appears the “smooth” going towards first flight confirms some money well spent?

 

[rooster]

The revolutionary things that might be identifiable with a direct sighting (or the absence of!) would be:
- distributed exhaust
- fluidic actuators (or the absence of ailerons since it is already presumed that this will be a flying wing)
- visual stealth

Visual stealth already can baked into the paint and not at all be visible.

 

[NeilChapman]

Well, well, well...

New B-21 Raider Being Accelerated With Overlapping Development and Production - Air & Space Forces Magazine

The Air Force is accelerating the B-21 program, Northrop Grumman President and Chief Executive Officer Kathy Warden said.

www.airforcemag.com

 

[TomS]

They say "accelerated" I hear "concurrency". Hope it works out OK but it's the sort of thing that makes me nervous.

 

[sferrin]

They say "accelerated" I hear "concurrency". Hope it works out OK but it's the sort of thing that makes me nervous.

The public has been conditioned to associate "concurrency" with "bad". It's a tool, nothing more. If not using it will not get you what you need in time then you use it. The lesser of two evils.

 

[Forest Green]

They say "accelerated" I hear "concurrency". Hope it works out OK but it's the sort of thing that makes me nervous.

It is very weird to here such things, because they were always talking about left-shift when I was studying at university 20+ years ago, which meant ironing everything out before production, so you don't get nasty surprises later on.

 

[sferrin]

They say "accelerated" I hear "concurrency". Hope it works out OK but it's the sort of thing that makes me nervous.

It is very weird to here such things, because they were always talking about left-shift when I was studying at university 20+ years ago, which meant ironing everything out before production, so you don't get nasty surprises later on.

The difference between theory and practice.

 

[NeilChapman]

They say "accelerated" I hear "concurrency". Hope it works out OK but it's the sort of thing that makes me nervous.

It is very weird to here such things, because they were always talking about left-shift when I was studying at university 20+ years ago, which meant ironing everything out before production, so you don't get nasty surprises later on.

The difference between theory and practice.

Recall, it's been reported that EMD and LRIP are on production tooling.

B-21 was (reportedly) digitally designed. There is (again, reportedly) relatively low risk tech involved. If the design and integration are good, the airframes are good.

FY25-26 production funds are for long lead time materials, correct? They won't have room on the line by then, right?

 

[bobbymike]

Greater Threat Doesn’t Necessarily Mean More B-21s Needed: Brown | Air & Space Forces Magazine

Heightened threats don't automatically translate to a need for more than 100 B-21 Raiders. The USAF may simply bolster its number of escorts.

www.airforcemag.com

I knew I shouldn’t have gotten excited when they talked about building 200

 

[kaiserd]

I think it’s more about keeping options open in relation to the eventually optimal mix between the B-21 and its unmanned compliments/ partial substitutes.

I’m sure the US airforce doesn’t want to be held to an arbitrary higher number by a congress (or be pressured to buy a non optimal mix) due to politicians and other pressure groups being potentially more interested in totems to shape perceptions rather than in the actual best solutions.
Such mood music from does suggest the US airforce’s interest and confidence in these unmanned compliments/ partial substitutes is growing.

 

[FighterJock]

Greater Threat Doesn’t Necessarily Mean More B-21s Needed: Brown | Air & Space Forces Magazine

Heightened threats don't automatically translate to a need for more than 100 B-21 Raiders. The USAF may simply bolster its number of escorts.

www.airforcemag.com

I knew I shouldn’t have gotten excited when they talked about building 200

So will the USAF get 100 or 150 B-21s? I thought that 200 bombers was asking too much, perhaps the USAF just doesn't have the funds for them at present.

 

[Josh_TN]

Greater Threat Doesn’t Necessarily Mean More B-21s Needed: Brown | Air & Space Forces Magazine

Heightened threats don't automatically translate to a need for more than 100 B-21 Raiders. The USAF may simply bolster its number of escorts.

www.airforcemag.com

I knew I shouldn’t have gotten excited when they talked about building 200

So will the USAF get 100 or 150 B-21s? I thought that 200 bombers was asking too much, perhaps the USAF just doesn't have the funds for them at present.

To even build a hundred airframes, the line will have to run way past 2030 if they are only minting a dozen or so a year. There's a lot of room for more orders if the strategic situation demands it.

 

[FighterJock]

There's a lot of room for more orders if the strategic situation demands it.

I hope that is true Josh_TN, I am thinking of the future reveals of the Xian H-20 and the Tupolev PAK-DA, I wish that the USAF looks at both future bombers and place further orders for the B-21 when the need arises.

 

[Bhurki]

There's a lot of room for more orders if the strategic situation demands it.

I hope that is true Josh_TN, I am thinking of the future reveals of the Xian H-20 and the Tupolev PAK-DA, I wish that the USAF looks at both future bombers and place further orders for the B-21 when the need arises.

I think its safe to assume PAK-DA won't be here anytime soon. Russians will have enough problems as it is trying to backfill the lost stuff from the current conflict and mature their ongoing programs like Su-57/75.

The H-20 fleet, on the other hand, will probably be limited only by bases from which it can fly, so the strategic calculation about whether to match or 1 up their fleet would need to actively consider how far can the chinese go to secure bases in the region.

 

[kaiserd]

I appreciate expansion of Chinese and/ or Russian nuclear forces would see equivalent US force numbers being looked at again.
But in terms of a numbers game it’s never going to be they have X number of bombers so we’re going to buy the same X number of B-21s; it’s far more complicated than that.

 

[In_A_Dream]

I appreciate expansion of Chinese and/ or Russian nuclear forces would see equivalent US force numbers being looked at again.
But in terms of a numbers game it’s never going to be they have X number of bombers so we’re going to buy the same X number of B-21s; it’s far more complicated than that.

What's concerning is that China has better manufacturing infrastructure and capability to turn things around faster and at higher quantities if they wanted to. The United States is missing that luxury at the moment (something continually highlighted by think tanks).

 

[Tool_Shed_Toker]

I appreciate expansion of Chinese and/ or Russian nuclear forces would see equivalent US force numbers being looked at again.
But in terms of a numbers game it’s never going to be they have X number of bombers so we’re going to buy the same X number of B-21s; it’s far more complicated than that.

What's concerning is that China has better manufacturing infrastructure and capability to turn things around faster and at higher quantities if they wanted to. The United States is missing that luxury at the moment (something continually highlighted by think tanks).

Quantity sure, Quality and complexity is another question. Quantity is a quality in itself though.