North American Rockwell NA-335 fighter project (to USAF FX requirement)

Do you have the clearance, Clarence? B)
 
A bit off topic, but on that logo or the Rockwell F-15, there's a bomber in the background. Any idea as to its identity?
 
overscan said:
Scott posted the following beautiful images of the NAA/Rockwell F-15 on his blog:
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Oh what a beaty !! :-* I think I need a kit of it ....

Deino
 
Wonderful pitures, but did I not see the picture 'naa-f-15-b' also in colour somewhere in web? Or is my memory just tricking me out? :eek:


Edit:
At MP.net I found the picture 'naa-f-15-b' in (a blueish) colour used as an avatar.
 

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What an elegant looking design. I can see the in-flight / ACM rationale for the lower fins but I wonder how tall the U/C would have to have been to enable rotation on take-off? Or did they fold? Weight penalty to provide that directional stability / control at high AoA capability?
 
AAAdrone said:
Wonderful images! I really am surprised that the US didn't go with NAA's design really.
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The Chief engineer at Sukhoi said something to the effect of the North American design being the one they were most worried about. (Though I'll be damned if I can remember where I read that. Might have been American Secret Projects - Fighters)
 
I remember something like that too and how the Soviets were surprised that they DIDN'T select the NAA submission despite it being the most dangerous one.
 
sferrin said:
AAAdrone said:
Wonderful images! I really am surprised that the US didn't go with NAA's design really.
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The Chief engineer at Sukhoi said something to the effect of the North American design being the one they were most worried about. (Though I'll be damned if I can remember where I read that. Might have been American Secret Projects - Fighters)
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Source is Oleg Samolovich in "Next to Sukhoi", posted by me here a long time ago. He actually says, IIRC, "Northrop" which I assumed was a mistake for "North American" on his part but I believe Northrop were the major subcontractor on the NAA/Rockwell FX so maybe there's something more to it. I'll check my copy of the book.
 
sferrin said:
AAAdrone said:
Wonderful images! I really am surprised that the US didn't go with NAA's design really.
Click to expand...
The Chief engineer at Sukhoi said something to the effect of the North American design being the one they were most worried about. (Though I'll be damned if I can remember where I read that. Might have been American Secret Projects - Fighters)
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sferrin I was just thinking how the 'Flanker' looks so much like NAA FX design - especially the wing and forward fuselage profile!!

P.S. thanks for posting these great artist works Overscan

Regards
Pioneer
 
The McDonnell Douglas F-15 is undefeated in air combat. Seems to me the choice made to build that design was verified or at the very least, not a mistake.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 
Mark Nankivil said:
The McDonnell Douglas F-15 is undefeated in air combat. Seems to me the choice made to build that design was verified or at the very least, not a mistake.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
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I think the NAA design was higher risk - the first Su-27 version, the T-10, which looks more similar to the NAA design, had multiple issues and abandoned the gothic wing planform entirely. It took a thorough redesign to become a worthy rival to the F-15.


The F-15 had 10 years in service before the Su-27 made it to the first trial units, even though first flights were only 5 years apart.
 
Does mock combat against F-22s count? Not good for the F-15s IIRC. It was on The History Channel, so it must be true.


Mark Nankivil said:
The McDonnell Douglas F-15 is undefeated in air combat. Seems to me the choice made to build that design was verified or at the very least, not a mistake.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
Click to expand...
 
Not relevant - I'm talking real world combat against what's been out there for the past 35 years. Supposedly Indian Flankers did well in Red Flag type exercises but when you look at the F-15, USAF and IDAF, in combat with missiles and guns where you lose, you die (or at least shot down), no losses.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 
famvburg said:
Does mock combat against F-22s count? Not good for the F-15s IIRC. It was on The History Channel, so it must be true.


Mark Nankivil said:
The McDonnell Douglas F-15 is undefeated in air combat. Seems to me the choice made to build that design was verified or at the very least, not a mistake.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
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That may be so, but the F-15, in terms of actual combat against foreign fighter aircraft in the dogfight and BVR regimes, is undefeated with over one hundred kills and no losses when considering the experience of both the United States and Israel.

Considering the F-22 is supposed to inherently be superior to the F-15 by definition as it is replacing the F-15 (sort of), then I must ask how your statement is valid as no country out there aside from the US operates the F-22.

Although I don't recall the F-15 ever facing the Su-27 in actual combat, I am willing to bet the Eagle will still win as the US has quite experienced pilots and the F-15 is just that wonderfully engineered.
 
Mark Nankivil said:
Not relevant - I'm talking real world combat against what's been out there for the past 35 years. Supposedly Indian Flankers did well in Red Flag type exercises but when you look at the F-15, USAF and IDAF, in combat with missiles and guns where you lose, you die (or at least shot down), no losses.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
Click to expand...

In the competition where the Indian Flankers slaughtered the F-15s you have to remember the ROE, as the F-15s weren't allowed to use their long range missiles in the engagement and the Flankers used their IRST's against the Eagles. You have to also consider this happened at a time when the USAF was doing it's best to drum up as much support as possible for the F-22.

Which is even more interesting if you ever saw the video that was online for a short time of the USAF Red Flag F-16 pilots talking about tearing up the Indians in their Su-27 MKI's. Although, the pilots did say the Indians would be much more dangerous once they properly learned to use their TV Flankers.
 
I found another image of the NAA design this morning - hadn't seen this one before.

[removed - scan from American Secret Projects - Fighters and Interceptors 1947 - 1974 - Admin]
 
I believe that is from Tony Buttler's American Secret Projects: Jet Fighters, credited to Craig Kaston who is a member here.


If you don't own this book, please buy it...
 
overscan said:
I believe that is from Tony Buttler's American Secret Projects: Jet Fighters, credited to Craig Kaston who is a member here.


If you don't own this book, please buy it...
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It is, and I have... :-[ I hadn't looked at my copy for a while and it hadn't registered. Should you/I delete the image?
 
A question I'm sure has been raised a bagrillion times: proper sizing of scans from currently-available published works. I'm not opposed to such images; rather than deleting them, why not ensmallerize them to thumbnail size? It's enough to be tempting, too small to be useful. Provides more incentive to buy the book than simple text saying that there is art available in the book.
 
Specifically for Ian Allan publications, the publisher requested no scans at all.

I take your point however, and will think about our guidelines again.
 
overscan said:
Specifically for Ian Allan publications, the publisher requested no scans at all.
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In that case... that's that. I would disagree with them, but their decision is their decision.

For me, I'd be *thrilled* to see thumbnail-sized images from my pubs pop up all over the Intarwebs, so long as there was proper attribution or a link.
 
Thank you Circle-5!

For your enjoyment, the NAR entry:
img140b.jpg
 
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Cleaned up scan artifacts on this artwork Mark posted near the start of the topic.
 

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North American Rockwell factory display model of an early FX design. See wind tunnel model photo of this shape in Reply #4 of this topic.
 

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Splendid design and model. Thanks a lot for sharing!
 
Hi,


here is a Model to North American NA-335.

72-1.jpg

Terry Panopalis from Quebec, Canada, has supplied this view of the North American Rockwell Model 335 to add to 'Steps to the Big League' which detailed the VFX and FX competitions in AE120. This half-scale wind tunnel model is preserved at the Air Force Flight Test Center Museum at Edwards Air Force Base, California. According to AFFTC Museum Director Doug Nelson, the model was donated hy Frank Eidikaitis in 1990, along with a full-scale fibreglass mock-up of the Model 335, after they were obtained from a Rockwell salvage sale in El Segundo. The museum, with the appropriate motto 'Keepers of the Right Stuff', is home to a growing collection of historical artefacts and aircraft to preserve the legacy of Edwards AFB.
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I'm surprised this one hasn't been posted yet.
 

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I'm surprised that the original poster/cameramonkey wasn't credited yet.
 
Wow - the full scale fibreglass model survived! Would be nice to see it on display :)
 
aim9xray said:
I'm surprised that the original poster/cameramonkey wasn't credited yet.
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If I knew who it was I'd have put it. The pic has been on my hard drive for years as-is.
 
sferrin said:
aim9xray said:
I'm surprised that the original poster/cameramonkey wasn't credited yet.
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If I knew who it was I'd have put it. The pic has been on my hard drive for years as-is.
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Funny, I had it too... We must have saved it from the same web page.
 

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