pathology_doc
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Excellent. If Amazon drops the axe on my order before then, I shall keep re-ordering and hope for the best. 
Nimrod's Genesis by Chris Gibson
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FighterJock
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I cannot wait. Will it be a Midland or Classic publication?
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Crecy, like Battle Flight and Vulcan's Hammer.
pathology_doc
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Get down on your knees, everyone, and pray for the safety of that container ship and all its cargo. ;D
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My copy's coming via airmail
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pathology_doc said:
Fresh chicken blood is easily come by, but where are we going to find enough innocent virgins in this day and age?!
shedofdread
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pathology_doc said:
Well, praying's all we can do as it's not like there's a maritime patrol asset that can keep watch over it, is it?
pathology_doc
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shedofdread said:pathology_doc said:
Well, praying's all we can do as it's not like there's a maritime patrol asset that can keep watch over it, is it?
But it takes a flying boat to be able to land and rescue the crew and the most precious (and portable) of the cargo. Perhaps they should dig out the plans for the Sunderland. I suspect a turboprop version with modern structures, systems and wing sections would be excellent in the role, although it would no doubt suffer in terms of transit time vs. a jet or a landplane.
pathology_doc said:shedofdread said:pathology_doc said:
Well, praying's all we can do as it's not like there's a maritime patrol asset that can keep watch over it, is it?
But it takes a flying boat to be able to land and rescue the crew and the most precious (and portable) of the cargo. Perhaps they should dig out the plans for the Sunderland. I suspect a turboprop version with modern structures, systems and wing sections would be excellent in the role, although it would no doubt suffer in terms of transit time vs. a jet or a landplane.
Then dig out the plans for the SeaMaster, jet transit times and amphibious capability - in very nice looking package.
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I have a copy in my hands.
After the relative sure-fire hits of Vulcan's Hammer & Battle Flight, Chris Gibson takes us a little "off the beaten track" into the world of maritime patrol.
First impressions are great. Blimey, it contains a lot of words and drawings. I can only surmise that the bitter cold weather "up north" give copious free hours to write books in - not sure how Chris manages it and a job as well. Certainly puts certain other people's work ethic to shame :-[ Lots of detail on sensors, weapons, and the threat, as well as the projects and requirements. Adrian Mann's 3D art is very nice.
I will post a real review once I have actually read the book. Once thats over, the wait for the next book in this series will begin. I know the title already
After the relative sure-fire hits of Vulcan's Hammer & Battle Flight, Chris Gibson takes us a little "off the beaten track" into the world of maritime patrol.
First impressions are great. Blimey, it contains a lot of words and drawings. I can only surmise that the bitter cold weather "up north" give copious free hours to write books in - not sure how Chris manages it and a job as well. Certainly puts certain other people's work ethic to shame :-[ Lots of detail on sensors, weapons, and the threat, as well as the projects and requirements. Adrian Mann's 3D art is very nice.
I will post a real review once I have actually read the book. Once thats over, the wait for the next book in this series will begin. I know the title already
FighterJock
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PaulMM (Overscan) said:I have a copy in my hands.
After the relative sure-fire hits of Vulcan's Hammer & Battle Flight, Chris Gibson takes us a little "off the beaten track" into the world of maritime patrol.
First impressions are great. Blimey, it contains a lot of words and drawings. I can only surmise that the bitter cold weather "up north" give copious free hours to write books in - not sure how Chris manages it and a job as well. Certainly puts certain other people's work ethic to shame :-[ Lots of detail on sensors, weapons, and the threat, as well as the projects and requirements. Adrian Mann's 3D art is very nice.
I will post a real review once I have actually read the book. Once thats over, the wait for the next book in this series will begin. I know the title already
Looking forward to reading your review, I like the fact that Chris has put effort on the sensors and weapons side of things. B)
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Update - I haven't finished reading the book yet. Enjoying it though.
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My review
Nimrod's Genesis is the next volume in Chris Gibson's series of books for Crecy on RAF projects and weapons. Following on from Vulcan's Hammer (Bombers) and Battle Flight (Fighters), Chris has decided to tackle the less glamorous, less well known subject of maritime patrol.
The book is beautifully put together, the drawings, photos and artwork all first class and reproduced perfectly and the excessive typos of Battle Flight are banished. The text is well written and edited, impeccably researched and reads well. There are loads of projects depicted I was previously unaware of, and the coverage of the various designs for the successive requirements is very complete. Chris covers the weapons and sensors used in maritime patrol and a chapter explaining the submarine threat that the Soviet Navy posed. If you have any interest in the subject of maritime patrol aircraft, I am sure this book will be a delight. I liked the HS.1011/HS.1023 (impractical but cool), and the Maritime Patrol Vulcan was unexpected.
In summary then, a great reference on RAF Maritime Patrol requirements and development, well worth buying. Crecy continue to impress with their releases, and Chris Gibson does a very good job of making a coherent narrative from the source material, not just a "stamp collection" of projects.
For me personally, while I enjoyed reading the book, a lingering part of me finds anything outside of bombers and fighters less interesting, despite Chris's sterling efforts with this book and his ProjectTech volumes to broaden my horizons and explore more esoteric areas of aviation history. A lot of the projects depicted are derivatives of airliners, and my feelings on airliners have been aired previously, just not my thing. I fully accept this is my failing, and plenty of people find civil aircraft and transports interesting, and I am trying to improve myself in this area. Chris's next project will further broaden my horizons
Sticking the Maritime Patrol Vulcan on the cover was a great idea - pity there were no MPA TSR.2 projects
In conclusion - buy it, its very interesting and deserves to do well. I hope it matches the success of previous volumes.
Nimrod's Genesis is the next volume in Chris Gibson's series of books for Crecy on RAF projects and weapons. Following on from Vulcan's Hammer (Bombers) and Battle Flight (Fighters), Chris has decided to tackle the less glamorous, less well known subject of maritime patrol.
The book is beautifully put together, the drawings, photos and artwork all first class and reproduced perfectly and the excessive typos of Battle Flight are banished. The text is well written and edited, impeccably researched and reads well. There are loads of projects depicted I was previously unaware of, and the coverage of the various designs for the successive requirements is very complete. Chris covers the weapons and sensors used in maritime patrol and a chapter explaining the submarine threat that the Soviet Navy posed. If you have any interest in the subject of maritime patrol aircraft, I am sure this book will be a delight. I liked the HS.1011/HS.1023 (impractical but cool), and the Maritime Patrol Vulcan was unexpected.
In summary then, a great reference on RAF Maritime Patrol requirements and development, well worth buying. Crecy continue to impress with their releases, and Chris Gibson does a very good job of making a coherent narrative from the source material, not just a "stamp collection" of projects.
For me personally, while I enjoyed reading the book, a lingering part of me finds anything outside of bombers and fighters less interesting, despite Chris's sterling efforts with this book and his ProjectTech volumes to broaden my horizons and explore more esoteric areas of aviation history. A lot of the projects depicted are derivatives of airliners, and my feelings on airliners have been aired previously, just not my thing. I fully accept this is my failing, and plenty of people find civil aircraft and transports interesting, and I am trying to improve myself in this area. Chris's next project will further broaden my horizons
Sticking the Maritime Patrol Vulcan on the cover was a great idea - pity there were no MPA TSR.2 projects
In conclusion - buy it, its very interesting and deserves to do well. I hope it matches the success of previous volumes.
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FighterJock
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PaulMM (Overscan) said:My review
Nimrod's Genesis is the next volume in Chris Gibson's series of books for Crecy on RAF projects and weapons. Following on from Vulcan's Hammer (Bombers) and Battle Flight (Fighters), Chris has decided to tackle the less glamorous, less well known subject of maritime patrol.
The book is beautifully put together, the drawings, photos and artwork all first class and reproduced perfectly and the excessive typos of Battle Flight are banished. The text is well written and edited, impeccably researched and reads well. There are loads of projects depicted I was previously unaware of, and the coverage of the various designs for the successive requirements is very complete. Chris covers the weapons and sensors used in maritime patrol and a chapter explaining the submarine threat that the Soviet Navy posed. If you have any interest in the subject of maritime patrol aircraft, I am sure this book will be a delight. I liked the HS.1011/HS.1023 (impractical but cool), and the Maritime Patrol Vulcan was unexpected.
In summary then, a great reference on RAF Maritime Patrol requirements and development, well worth buying. Crecy continue to impress with their releases, and Chris Gibson does a very good job of making a coherent narrative from the source material, not just a "stamp collection" of projects.
For me personally, while I enjoyed reading the book, a lingering part of me finds anything outside of bombers and fighters less interesting, despite Chris's sterling efforts with this book and his ProjectTech volumes to broaden my horizons and explore more esoteric areas of aviation history. A lot of the projects depicted are derivatives of airliners, and my feelings on airliners have been aired previously, just not my thing. I fully accept this is my failing, and plenty of people find civil aircraft and transports interesting, and I am trying to improve myself in this area. Chris's next project will further broaden my horizons
Sticking the Maritime Patrol Vulcan on the cover was a great idea - pity there were no MPA TSR.2 projects
In conclusion - buy it, its very interesting and deserves to do well. I hope it matches the success of previous volumes.
A very good review, out of interest I don't know if there were any MPA TSRs designed, I will go and have a read of my Damien Burke TSR book and find out.
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Thank you Paul for your self-confessed highly-prejudiced review. You've been reading far too much Camm. The 'converted airliner' aspect only applies to three, maybe three and a half, of the ten Chapters and three Appendices. I take the view that fighters and bombers are at the mopper-up stage. Support types are the new black and, as the Americans say,'You can't kick ass without tanker gas.'
Nimrod's Genesis answers many of the questions posed on this very forum - Why the VC10 wasn't cut to size, why most airliners were actually unsuitable, what were the NBMR.2 proposals, what was BAC/HSA/BAe doing between 1965 and 1995 and my own favourite, the background to the R.2/48 Sunderland replacement - a tale of politics, industry, big recips, dodgy maps (the Air Staff was fiddling maps long before TSR.2), the kitchen sink and the Nomad.
As Paul points out, maritime patrol is the ginger stepchild of the aviation book world. It was also treated like a ginger stepchild by the RAF but the aircraft vs submarine role was technically challenging, possibly more so than the air-to-air, surface-to-air and ALBMs. Maritime patrol technology has contributed greatly to our understanding of the Earth, medicine and security. I walked past the ultimate development of Autolycus this very morning.
I hope you enjoy reading it as much as I enjoyed researching and writing it. It was an eye-opener. As pointed out in the Foreword, the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight has a Spitfire, a Hurricane and, very oddly, a Lancaster and a Dakota. My research for Nimrod's Genesis led me to believe that it should also have a Catalina.
Chris
Nimrod's Genesis answers many of the questions posed on this very forum - Why the VC10 wasn't cut to size, why most airliners were actually unsuitable, what were the NBMR.2 proposals, what was BAC/HSA/BAe doing between 1965 and 1995 and my own favourite, the background to the R.2/48 Sunderland replacement - a tale of politics, industry, big recips, dodgy maps (the Air Staff was fiddling maps long before TSR.2), the kitchen sink and the Nomad.
As Paul points out, maritime patrol is the ginger stepchild of the aviation book world. It was also treated like a ginger stepchild by the RAF but the aircraft vs submarine role was technically challenging, possibly more so than the air-to-air, surface-to-air and ALBMs. Maritime patrol technology has contributed greatly to our understanding of the Earth, medicine and security. I walked past the ultimate development of Autolycus this very morning.
I hope you enjoy reading it as much as I enjoyed researching and writing it. It was an eye-opener. As pointed out in the Foreword, the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight has a Spitfire, a Hurricane and, very oddly, a Lancaster and a Dakota. My research for Nimrod's Genesis led me to believe that it should also have a Catalina.
Chris
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CJGibson said:
Yes and when you talk in detail to Boeing about the P-8 Poseidon (or Lockheed about the Orion) they say if you can do ASW you do anything. And in this digital age those anythings are only a software update away.
PS If anyone can advise when Crecy ship Nimrod’s Genesis I would appreciate it. The unsorted email inbox gets pretty full and I’m more likely to find out about it here than there.
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CJGibson said:
HERESY!
;D
Should the Short Sunderland not also get a place of honour?
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Grey Havoc - 'Should the Short Sunderland not also get a place of honour?'
Of course, of course. As you will find out after shelling out your hard-earned, as many, if not more Catalinas flew with Coastal Command in WW2. Try finding a viable Sunderland for restoration to flight. Many Cats about, even if they are the amphibians.
CNH - Only skimmed over the WW2 aspects, but did read quite a bit about while researching and the stock answer of 'shorten the war by two years' would be nonsense. I think by the time the centimetric ASVs (mod H2S effectively) and the GR Lancaster and Halifax were available, say mid/late 1943, the use of Ultra had pretty much made the war against the U-boats a certainty. What would have made a difference earlier (which I think you might mean) is the availability of more long-range Liberators to fill the Black Hole. I doubt the Lancaster and Halifax could have done this. Ops against U-boats in the transit areas are a different matter.
Another imponderable is what would have happened had any of the aircraft diverted from Bomber Command to Coastal Command, not been available to disrupt U-boat construction or delayed the development of the advanced U-boats such as the Type 21. There's a PhD in that alone I'm sure.
Chris
Of course, of course. As you will find out after shelling out your hard-earned, as many, if not more Catalinas flew with Coastal Command in WW2. Try finding a viable Sunderland for restoration to flight. Many Cats about, even if they are the amphibians.
CNH - Only skimmed over the WW2 aspects, but did read quite a bit about while researching and the stock answer of 'shorten the war by two years' would be nonsense. I think by the time the centimetric ASVs (mod H2S effectively) and the GR Lancaster and Halifax were available, say mid/late 1943, the use of Ultra had pretty much made the war against the U-boats a certainty. What would have made a difference earlier (which I think you might mean) is the availability of more long-range Liberators to fill the Black Hole. I doubt the Lancaster and Halifax could have done this. Ops against U-boats in the transit areas are a different matter.
Another imponderable is what would have happened had any of the aircraft diverted from Bomber Command to Coastal Command, not been available to disrupt U-boat construction or delayed the development of the advanced U-boats such as the Type 21. There's a PhD in that alone I'm sure.
Chris
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Grey Havoc said:
Actually a Wellington or Liberator would be the best representative, followed by the Sunderland.
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Practicality would mean a Cat.
If they can fly Spitfire VB, IX and XIX and Hurricane IICs, a Cat is OK by me. The punters don't know the difference anyway. If it's got props its old, in fact I'm sure you could paint up a Tucano and 99% wouldn't know. The attached pic by Geoffrey Lee probably sums it up.
Chris
If they can fly Spitfire VB, IX and XIX and Hurricane IICs, a Cat is OK by me. The punters don't know the difference anyway. If it's got props its old, in fact I'm sure you could paint up a Tucano and 99% wouldn't know. The attached pic by Geoffrey Lee probably sums it up.
Chris
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Pirates, or lost overboard in a storm?
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CNH #63: you are being provocative! (Harris' priorities, Ruhr or MR).
BC put constant effort into minelaying, profoundly effective: Adm.Nimitz: B-29’s “phenomenal” effectiveness:“a ton of (mines) probably did (more for us) than a ton of incendiaries on (Japanese cities).” S.Budiansky,Air Power,Cape,P34. Harris' position was that hunting vaguely in the briney for the wake of a periscope was not what 7 men had trained for, nor was the oggin the best application for resources which could deliver H2S or ASV, but not both in high volume. Armchair umpires disagree - e.g. R.Overy, Why the Allies Won, Cape, 1995,P.60: “Why (RAF resisted) releasing bombers for work over the ocean defies explanation (merely) 37 (Heavies closed) the Atlantic Gap (which) had almost brought plans to stalemate”:“great holocaust of U-boats”(56, 4-5/43)by 12xWellington XII, 179 Sqn (Gib), 12xLiberator III,120 Sqn(Reykjavik)1..
You might think (though I could not possibly comment) that Harris' position was influenced by BC's, ah, erratic success in finding large cities. That might have been PM's view: “Highly inefficient (Coastal must) not trench so heavily (on) reserves. In spite of (losses to) U-boat(s) the Bomber offensive should have first place in our effort” 7/42: C.Ponting,Churchill,1994,S-Stevenson,P58.
BC put constant effort into minelaying, profoundly effective: Adm.Nimitz: B-29’s “phenomenal” effectiveness:“a ton of (mines) probably did (more for us) than a ton of incendiaries on (Japanese cities).” S.Budiansky,Air Power,Cape,P34. Harris' position was that hunting vaguely in the briney for the wake of a periscope was not what 7 men had trained for, nor was the oggin the best application for resources which could deliver H2S or ASV, but not both in high volume. Armchair umpires disagree - e.g. R.Overy, Why the Allies Won, Cape, 1995,P.60: “Why (RAF resisted) releasing bombers for work over the ocean defies explanation (merely) 37 (Heavies closed) the Atlantic Gap (which) had almost brought plans to stalemate”:“great holocaust of U-boats”(56, 4-5/43)by 12xWellington XII, 179 Sqn (Gib), 12xLiberator III,120 Sqn(Reykjavik)1..
You might think (though I could not possibly comment) that Harris' position was influenced by BC's, ah, erratic success in finding large cities. That might have been PM's view: “Highly inefficient (Coastal must) not trench so heavily (on) reserves. In spite of (losses to) U-boat(s) the Bomber offensive should have first place in our effort” 7/42: C.Ponting,Churchill,1994,S-Stevenson,P58.
FighterJock
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Great news Chris. Been looking forward to this book for ages.
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