new big 'Ogre' tank that combines functions of tank and self-propelled howitzer?

[T. A. Gardner]

I agree that the existing method of adjusting a 155mm howitzer's muzzle energy (by varying sizes of propellant bags), while acceptable for an Ogre's leisurely shooting day, wouldn't work in an all-out fight. I don't know how best to accomplish the needed variable muzzle energy, and of course I'm not demanding a laid-out solution from you all. It's too bad that liquid propellants haven't worked out. Ogre would necessarily start as a research project, not something that could be built next year even given a "waste everything except time" unlimited budget (unless DARPA is driving something around the salt flats of Groom Lake that we don't know about). I suggested to Foo Fighter that the project for a replacement for the M1 when that successful tank at last becomes obsolescent in another decade or so should start today.

Railguns powered by superconducting capacitors, lasers or particle beams that could melt through current tank armor in a fraction of a second without thermal blooming, anti-kaiju Atomic Heat Ray Guns or Maser Cannons, etc., if they ever work at all, are weapons for the generations after Ogre, and therefore are not covered in this thread. Ogre would be a relatively conventional tank, somewhat bigger, with the next generation of defense, firepower, and mobility, whose one all-new feature is being able to provide direct and indirect fires with equal facility, to win out over tomorrow's threats.

One way to vary it would be to use a high-low pressure gun with gas venting. The PAW 600 is such a weapon without the venting. What you have with such a gun is a variable muzzle velocity with the same charge being used. Of course, if you want high velocity, that isn't the way to go because you won't have it in any setting.

I'm being lazy so here's the intro version:

High–low system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Scott Kenny]

I agree that the existing method of adjusting a 155mm howitzer's muzzle energy (by varying sizes of propellant bags), while acceptable for an Ogre's leisurely shooting day, wouldn't work in an all-out fight. I don't know how best to accomplish the needed variable muzzle energy, and of course I'm not demanding a laid-out solution from you all. It's too bad that liquid propellants haven't worked out. Ogre would necessarily start as a research project, not something that could be built next year even given a "waste everything except time" unlimited budget (unless DARPA is driving something around the salt flats of Groom Lake that we don't know about).

Honestly, I think that the next advancement in tanks is going to be another type or two of ammunition. Still got long rods and HEAT for direct fire, now we're adding two mid-range munitions: one fast for the flat plains of Iraq or Kursk 3, one slow for built up areas and mountains of Korea 2.

I suggested to Foo Fighter that the project for a replacement for the M1 when that successful tank at last becomes obsolescent in another decade or so should start today.

100% agree with that. Army has been sitting on the Abrams too long and absolutely needs a new tank design cooking.

Ogre would be a relatively conventional tank, somewhat bigger, with the next generation of defense, firepower, and mobility, whose one all-new feature is being able to provide direct and indirect fires with equal facility, to win out over tomorrow's threats.

You mean 2 new features: all around armoring and APS to protect against top attack and FPV kamikazes, plus the mid range shooting.

 

[Owens Z]

One way to vary it would be to use a high-low pressure gun with gas venting. The PAW 600 is such a weapon without the venting. What you have with such a gun is a variable muzzle velocity with the same charge being used. Of course, if you want high velocity, that isn't the way to go because you won't have it in any setting.

I'm being lazy so here's the intro version:

Thanks, T.A. Take a look at < https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/rarefaction-wave-gun-raven.14469/ > too, about the rarefaction wave gun (RAVEN) project. Basically, a big gun's breech is opened after the projectile is already far down the barrel, so that no muzzle energy is lost, but the gases venting rearward substantially reduce (c50%?) the felt recoil. Apparently successful tests, but no news thereafter about actual applications.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Thanks, T.A. Take a look at < https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/rarefaction-wave-gun-raven.14469/ > too, about the rarefaction wave gun (RAVEN) project. Basically, a big gun's breech is opened after the projectile is already far down the barrel, so that no muzzle energy is lost, but the gases venting rearward substantially reduce (c50%?) the felt recoil. Apparently successful tests, but no news thereafter about actual applications.

I like the concept, but I suspect that the RAVEN gun ran afoul of backblast.

You can't have infantry shelter behind a tank with a RAVEN gun and be able to use that gun. And that makes it extremely difficult for the tank to be used in urban combat to blast strongpoints.

 

[Owens Z]

Unfortunately this thread lost two or three valuable posts during the recent emergency backup. But Scott Kenny, DWG, and I were in agreement that the rarefaction wave gun (RAVEN) concept doesn't seem suitable for a new tank. No news about RAVEN from any Army higher-ups in the past fifteen years or so, so it appears that they agree too.