NASA Space Launch System (SLS)

[Triton]

You forgot about the "Make America Great Again" flag-waving propaganda value of a manned mission to a previously unvisited astronomical body. Not much propaganda value in a manned return to the Moon or an manned asteroid rendezvous. Mars is a bigger propaganda splash.

Who cares if it has a side-benefit of a propaganda boost? :

Go ahead and roll your eyes! Doesn't mean that it isn't true.

 

[bobbymike]

You forgot about the "Make America Great Again" flag-waving propaganda value of a manned mission to a previously unvisited astronomical body. Not much propaganda value in a manned return to the Moon or an manned asteroid rendezvous. Mars is a bigger propaganda splash.

Who cares if it has a side-benefit of a propaganda boost? :

I WANT that flag to be American and the astronaut who plants it to be eating apple pie while wearing a baseball glove

 

[Orionblamblam]

I WANT that flag to be American ...

As a fellow American, and one who thinks that the foundational ideals of this country - one of the very few nations that was founded on ideals, rather than geography, language, religion or ethnicity - are the best humanity has come up with yet, I would also want that flag to be Old Glory. And still... it would bother me not in the slightest if those loyal to Britain or Germany or Russia or Japan or wherever want *their* flags out there as well. When it comes to progress, the more competition, the better.

 

[bobbymike]

I WANT that flag to be American ...

As a fellow American, and one who thinks that the foundational ideals of this country - one of the very few nations that was founded on ideals, rather than geography, language, religion or ethnicity - are the best humanity has come up with yet, I would also want that flag to be Old Glory. And still... it would bother me not in the slightest if those loyal to Britain or Germany or Russia or Japan or wherever want *their* flags out there as well. When it comes to progress, the more competition, the better.

I agree but the 'first' flag is the Stars and Stripes

 

[sferrin]

You forgot about the "Make America Great Again" flag-waving propaganda value of a manned mission to a previously unvisited astronomical body. Not much propaganda value in a manned return to the Moon or an manned asteroid rendezvous. Mars is a bigger propaganda splash.

Who cares if it has a side-benefit of a propaganda boost? :

Go ahead and roll your eyes! Doesn't mean that it isn't true.

I don't care if His Yugeness plants a flag of the Sun God on Mars. As long as Old Glory is flying next to it it's a good thing for the USA.

 

[Michel Van]

guys...

I think we are going a little bit off topic here !
This about NASA Space Launch System not who has better government in Solar system

Move the overheating discussion to the Bar and go back to Topic...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMc0gVs0_FM

 

[Byeman]

1: The existence of US-loyal, US-derived extraterrestrial colonies will provide for the US defense because they will be sources of advanced technology. The propulsion systems alone developed to make transit to and from the colonies will aid in planetary and national defense.

Chemical and electrical propulsion are not going to advance enough to make a difference. Anyways, the source of the advanced technologies will be the home planet and not the colonies.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Chemical and electrical propulsion are not going to advance enough to make a difference.

Gosh, if only there were possibilities beyond chemical and electric . If only...

Anyways, the source of the advanced technologies will be the home planet and not the colonies.

Uh-huh. Just like all the advanced technologies in history came from the Olduvai Gorge.

Sigh.

For those reading along who *aren't" intellectually ossified, new challenging environments have *always* been spurs to innovation. What use would the Epstein Drive be to Earthers? Minimal. To Belters? Vital.

 

[XP67_Moonbat]

I got those references! Now gimme my cookie!

 

[bobbymike]

Chemical and electrical propulsion are not going to advance enough to make a difference.

Gosh, if only there were possibilities beyond chemical and electric . If only...

Anyways, the source of the advanced technologies will be the home planet and not the colonies.

Uh-huh. Just like all the advanced technologies in history came from the Olduvai Gorge.

Sigh.

For those reading along who *aren't" intellectually ossified, new challenging environments have *always* been spurs to innovation. What use would the Epstein Drive be to Earthers? Minimal. To Belters? Vital.

I posted this before, I'm sure, on another space thread but a really good book is Marshall Savage's "The Millennial Project: Colonizing the Galaxy in Eight Easy Steps" which is a step by step plan to get off the planet and eventually out into the galaxy. I'm sure those in the know can argue some of the science he presents but broadly the theme is we better do this or humanity it at risk.

 

[Orionblamblam]

... a step by step plan to get off the planet and eventually out into the galaxy. I'm sure those in the know can argue some of the science he presents but broadly the theme is we better do this or humanity it at risk.

Strictly speaking that's not accurate. If humanity doesn't spread out into space, it's not 'at risk," it's "outright doomed." Same goes for bunnies and carrots and humpack whales... and for American/Chinese/Lithuanian/Whatever culture.

 

[FighterJock]

... a step by step plan to get off the planet and eventually out into the galaxy. I'm sure those in the know can argue some of the science he presents but broadly the theme is we better do this or humanity it at risk.

Strictly speaking that's not accurate. If humanity doesn't spread out into space, it's not 'at risk," it's "outright doomed." Same goes for bunnies and carrots and humpack whales... and for American/Chinese/Lithuanian/Whatever culture.

If we cannot get something like a warp drive system installed on a spacecraft then the best that we can do would be to design a so called Worldship that would take humanity to the stars at sub light speed otherwise humanity is finished.

 

[bobbymike]

... a step by step plan to get off the planet and eventually out into the galaxy. I'm sure those in the know can argue some of the science he presents but broadly the theme is we better do this or humanity it at risk.

Strictly speaking that's not accurate. If humanity doesn't spread out into space, it's not 'at risk," it's "outright doomed." Same goes for bunnies and carrots and humpack whales... and for American/Chinese/Lithuanian/Whatever culture.

If we cannot get something like a warp drive system installed on a spacecraft then the best that we can do would be to design a so called Worldship that would take humanity to the stars at sub light speed otherwise humanity is finished.

From the book I mentioned earlier Mars is the logical first step and as for the stars the distances are so large even for our nearest neighbors that the author postulated that you shouldn't try (manned missions) unless you can reach .1c because those on a slower Worldship would look on helplessly as a better technology flew past them.

 

[FighterJock]

Just saw this news article about the testing of the RS-25 with a new engine controller at NASA's Stennis Space Center.

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/The_Brain_of_the_Space_Launch_System_RS_25_Engine_Passes_Critical_Test_999.html

 

[Grey Havoc]

https://science.slashdot.org/story/17/03/28/0041212/nasa-spends-72-cents-of-every-sls-dollar-on-overhead-costs-says-report

 

[Byeman]

Gosh, if only there were possibilities beyond chemical and electric . If only...

In the context of this discussion, there isn't any. Because if there is a new physics discovery or game changing technology, it is likely that the financial resources of gov'ts are not needed.

 

[Byeman]

There are some civilizations that reasonable people should be able to agree we don't want owning the stars.

Like citizens of Idaho, Montana and Utah.

 

[sferrin]

There are some civilizations that reasonable people should be able to agree we don't want owning the stars.

Like citizens of Idaho, Montana and Utah.

Clearly you've never lived there. No doubt your perpetually sunny disposition is due to the Utopian surroundings you dwell in.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Gosh, if only there were possibilities beyond chemical and electric . If only...

In the context of this discussion, there isn't any. Because if there is a new physics discovery or game changing technology, it is likely that the financial resources of gov'ts are not needed.

Does this make sense to you? Really?

Kinda curious if that makes sense to anyone else, because it sure doesn't to me. How can anyone actually believe that colonists on Mars or in the asteroid belt, whose lives and the futures of their children, will somehow restrict themselves solely to chemical or electrical propulsion systems, when they already have full knowledge of nuclear thermal systems, solar sails, magsails, electromagnetic coilguns, plasma thrusters and a whole bunch of other, better systems? Never mind more theoretical systems like nuclear pulse, fusion rockets and such?

 

[Byeman]

when they already have full knowledge of nuclear thermal systems, solar sails, magsails, electromagnetic coilguns, plasma thrusters and a whole bunch of other, better systems?

Really? How are any of those better? None of those are going to radically change the time of travel. Still going to take months.

 

[Rhinocrates]

Time is not the only criterion. Some could drastically lower the cost of cargo transport.

 

[bobbymike]

Gosh, if only there were possibilities beyond chemical and electric . If only...

In the context of this discussion, there isn't any. Because if there is a new physics discovery or game changing technology, it is likely that the financial resources of gov'ts are not needed.

Does this make sense to you? Really?

Kinda curious if that makes sense to anyone else, because it sure doesn't to me. How can anyone actually believe that colonists on Mars or in the asteroid belt, whose lives and the futures of their children, will somehow restrict themselves solely to chemical or electrical propulsion systems, when they already have full knowledge of nuclear thermal systems, solar sails, magsails, electromagnetic coilguns, plasma thrusters and a whole bunch of other, better systems? Never mind more theoretical systems like nuclear pulse, fusion rockets and such?

http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/04/fusion-enabled-pluto-orbiter-and-lander.html

http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/04/imploding-liner-fusion-propulsion-system.html

 

[Byeman]

Gosh, if only there were possibilities beyond chemical and electric . If only...

In the context of this discussion, there isn't any. Because if there is a new physics discovery or game changing technology, it is likely that the financial resources of gov'ts are not needed.

Does this make sense to you? Really?

Kinda curious if that makes sense to anyone else, because it sure doesn't to me. How can anyone actually believe that colonists on Mars or in the asteroid belt, whose lives and the futures of their children, will somehow restrict themselves solely to chemical or electrical propulsion systems, when they already have full knowledge of nuclear thermal systems, solar sails, magsails, electromagnetic coilguns, plasma thrusters and a whole bunch of other, better systems? Never mind more theoretical systems like nuclear pulse, fusion rockets and such?

http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/04/fusion-enabled-pluto-orbiter-and-lander.html

http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/04/imploding-liner-fusion-propulsion-system.html

The list of theoretical systems is much larger and just as useless. Until they get off the list, they don't help with colonization.

 

[Byeman]

Time is not the only criterion. Some could drastically lower the cost of cargo transport.

Time is the issue for personnel transport.

 

[Rhinocrates]

Time is not the only criterion. Some could drastically lower the cost of cargo transport.

Time is the issue for personnel transport.

For personnel, yes, but personnel need material support and a crewed spacecraft can be smaller, less massive, faster and therefore cheaper if the equipment and and supplies are sent ahead separately by slower but much less expensive means. Cost is one thing that cannot be left out of the equation.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Via Slashdot: https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/04/senior-official-nasa-will-delay-first-flight-of-new-sls-rocket-until-2019/

Sigh.

 

[sferrin]

Via Slashdot: https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/04/senior-official-nasa-will-delay-first-flight-of-new-sls-rocket-until-2019/

Sigh.

I'm starting to think Blue Origin will land a New Glenn at sea before SLS launches. :

 

[FighterJock]

Two years until the first SLS launches, I wonder what the hold up is? Hope it is nothing major.

 

[blackstar]

Two years until the first SLS launches, I wonder what the hold up is? Hope it is nothing major.

Read the GAO report.

 

[Michel Van]

Two years until the first SLS launches, I wonder what the hold up is? Hope it is nothing major.

NASA aim for 2019 launch, but is not sure even about that !

Some of delay in short form

The NASA plant in New Orleans was hit by storm and was Damage, during repairs on building, work on SLS core was interrupted.
They redo welding on the core stage after inspection revealed low weld strengths.
If the Core can be deliver to KSC for testing in September 2017 is questionable

Orion capsule has delays because modification to systems and Heat shield after December 2014 test flight.
Airbus again has delays in Orion Service Module (former ATV) do underestimating the time and effort necessary to adapt the design.
Airbus will deliver Orion Service Module only in August 2017 to Lockheed facility
what make Orion ready for KSC transport not before August 2018 and delaying launch readiness testing to be ready in November 2018.
Next to that has Lockheed issue with some hardware and the Software on Orion spacecraft.

Missing needed Spacesuits for Orion Spacecraft.
after spending 200 million dollar on Space suits R&D NASA has no space suit ready for Orion spacecraft.
all they got are 18 old Shuttle spacesuits were 11 are operational and they unusable for Orion spacecraft
the JSC space suits will be not ready before 2020 or 2024.

One moment why i mention spacesuits for EM-1 flight ?
now at NASA some in Administration proposed to make 2019 EM-1 a Manned Flight !

Source
new schedule 2019
http://spacenews.com/nasa-plans-to-delay-first-slsorion-mission-to-2019/

Space Suits issues
https://www.seeker.com/space/exploration/nasas-200m-spacesuit-problem-threatens-its-deep-space-exploration-plans

EM-1 manned
http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/rockets/a25232/nasa-considers-astronauts-sls-launch/

 

[FighterJock]

Two years until the first SLS launches, I wonder what the hold up is? Hope it is nothing major.

NASA aim for 2019 launch, but is not sure even about that !

Some of delay in short form

The NASA plant in New Orleans was hit by storm and was Damage, during repairs on building, work on SLS core was interrupted.
They redo welding on the core stage after inspection revealed low weld strengths.
If the Core can be deliver to KSC for testing in September 2017 is questionable

Orion capsule has delays because modification to systems and Heat shield after December 2014 test flight.
Airbus again has delays in Orion Service Module (former ATV) do underestimating the time and effort necessary to adapt the design.
Airbus will deliver Orion Service Module only in August 2017 to Lockheed facility
what make Orion ready for KSC transport not before August 2018 and delaying launch readiness testing to be ready in November 2018.
Next to that has Lockheed issue with some hardware and the Software on Orion spacecraft.

Missing needed Spacesuits for Orion Spacecraft.
after spending 200 million dollar on Space suits R&D NASA has no space suit ready for Orion spacecraft.
all they got are 18 old Shuttle spacesuits were 11 are operational and they usable for Orion spacecraft
the JSC space suits will be not ready before 2020 or 2024.

One moment why i mention spacesuits for EM-1 flight ?
now at NASA some in Administration proposed to make 2019 EM-1 a Manned Flight !

Source
new schedule 2019
http://spacenews.com/nasa-plans-to-delay-first-slsorion-mission-to-2019/

Space Suits issues
https://www.seeker.com/space/exploration/nasas-200m-spacesuit-problem-threatens-its-deep-space-exploration-plans

EM-1 manned
http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/rockets/a25232/nasa-considers-astronauts-sls-launch/

Thanks for the links Michel Van, I am actually surprised that NASA are even considering making EM-1 a manned flight, a lot of things could go wrong on a first flight.

 

[blackstar]

Thanks for the links Michel Van, I am actually surprised that NASA are even considering making EM-1 a manned flight, a lot of things could go wrong on a first flight.

They're doing that because they were told to do that. But they'll produce a report that says "It will cost X, it will take Y more years, and it will increase the risk by Z." And X, Y and Z could all be really large numbers.

 

[Flyaway]

NASA Study Warns Against Putting Crew On Huge Rocket’s First Flight

A review ordered by the Trump administration finds costs and scheduling problems.

12 May 2017

A NASA working group has concluded after a two-month review that sending astronauts on the first flight of its massive new rocket wouldn’t be feasible due to the immense costs of safely accommodating a crew on the planned 2019 mission, the first step in America’s return to human space exploration.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-12/nasa-study-warns-against-putting-crew-on-huge-rocket-s-first-flight

 

[Flyaway]

Decision on EM-1 launch date still pending

HUNTSVILLE, Ala. — NASA is still up to a month away from setting a new target launch date for the first flight of the Space Launch System, but agency officials said they still expected it to take place in 2019.

NASA has not set a new date for Exploration Mission (EM) 1, which will launch an uncrewed Orion spacecraft on a test flight into lunar orbit and back, since announcing in May that it would delay the flight to 2019 after deciding not to put a crew on the mission.

http://spacenews.com/decision-on-em-1-launch-date-still-pending/

 

[fredymac]

And another delay.

"NASA expects first Space Launch System flight to slip into 2020"
https://spaceflightnow.com/2017/11/20/nasa-expects-first-space-launch-system-flight-to-slip-into-2020/

 

[sferrin]

And another delay.

"NASA expects first Space Launch System flight to slip into 2020"
https://spaceflightnow.com/2017/11/20/nasa-expects-first-space-launch-system-flight-to-slip-into-2020/

At this rate both SpaceX and Blue Origin are going to leave them in the dust.

 

[Flyaway]

And another delay.

"NASA expects first Space Launch System flight to slip into 2020"
https://spaceflightnow.com/2017/11/20/nasa-expects-first-space-launch-system-flight-to-slip-into-2020/

At this rate both SpaceX and Blue Origin are going to leave them in the dust.

Not really. Being as it seems an increasingly remote possibility that FH will even fly for the first time this year, far more likely 2018, something like four years late. BO aren’t even slated to start flying until 2020 at the earliest.

 

[blackstar]

Not really. Being as it seems an increasingly remote possibility that FH will even fly for the first time this year, far more likely 2018, something like four years late. BO aren’t even slated to start flying until 2020 at the earliest.

Maybe the takeaway message is that large rockets are difficult to build, and they take longer than people expect.

 

[sferrin]

Not really. Being as it seems an increasingly remote possibility that FH will even fly for the first time this year, far more likely 2018, something like four years late. BO aren’t even slated to start flying until 2020 at the earliest.

Maybe the takeaway message is that large rockets are difficult to build, and they take longer than people expect.

Unless it's a Saturn V anyway.

 

[blackstar]

During the peak of Apollo, 5% of the federal budget was going to NASA. That's a lot of money. The edict was "waste anything but time."