NASA Space Launch System (SLS)

The X-33 & VentureStar where an atempt to do that, and NASA screwed up.

The real issue is that back in 1972 Apollo colossal infrastructures become entrenched in Congress as a job-program; and as such, had to be recycled at any cost into the Shuttle.
In a sense, this delayed the problem by 40 years until 2012, when it came bitting once again.

"Apollo built it, Shuttle used it for 40 years, now what ? retirement ? no way. SLS ! Back to Saturn V !" Except without an Apollo committment behind it.

We have a few expensive Saturn V (the three SLS flight planned so far); a few expensive Apollos (Orions) - and nothing else, at least not an appropriate budget.

NASA has made one smart move to try and get itself out of that SLS mess in the future: picking Starship for the cargo lunar lander program. Despite of course the big risks related to it (massive orbital methalox refueling).

In a sense, NASA
- hired Starship for the lunar cargo role, and as a possible "Plan B" to SLS-Orion if unsustainable or canned in the future
- this way they encourage / support Musk Mars plans - through their own lunar program as started by President Trump.

Basically: Musk is not interested in the Moon
- So there is some room for NASA use of Starship there
- Which is quite welcome as a "plan B" to the expensive and troubled SLS-Orion "plan A".

That's only MHO, of course.
 
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Nope - it was hopeless from day one, in July 1996.

Blame Lockheed and their insane lifting body concept.
Blame NASA which picked it in the first place.
Blame the Shuttle which set the bar way too high for its successor
(we want 65 000 pounds payload out of a SSTO or TSTO or RLV !)

And blame the freakkin' rocket equation, which is insanely harsh. :D

It was a lose-lose business for everybody.
 
I've come to suspect that USG space policy over the decades wasn't as blundering as it appeared. At a policy level, the USG really only needed a few reconnaissance satellites and a small comsat industry. The rest was show business. It was probably happy with spaceflight being so expensive that everyone except one increasingly broke rival was priced out. There was certainly a lack of enthusiasm and sometimes hostility towards cost-cutting initiatives (ORTAG, Delta Clipper, Pegasus, Jerry Bull and his supergun - OK, there were some complications with Jerry Bull, but the Iraqi supergun, which was apparently a launcher rather than a weapon, was demolished with unusual haste). The stated goal of dramatically lowering launch costs with the shuttle was probably, at some level, a hoax.
I suspect that the repeated cycle of:
1. announce a big long term space goal (Mars, asteroids, SSTO, return to the moon, etc.)
2. spend billions over years on engineering and administration
3. cancel before serious hardware is built and announce a new long term space goal
that went on for decades and was not as ridiculous as it seemed. It allowed the USG to maintain a spaceflight infrastructure which could be turned on for real if needed while avoiding the cost of producing and flying hardware, even if it did create a bloated and inefficient industry. It was a much easier sell than "we're going to pay 10,000 (or whatever) engineers and scientists to sit around theorizing about what they'd like to build".
Only now that real competition has appeared (New Space & China), 45 years after the shuttle flew, does a project of similar scale appear to be headed towards launch.
As to "why", it's probably simply to avoid handing the Chinese a monopoly on heavy launch capability at point where lunar outposts and asteroid mining are real prospects. The Chinese aren't big enthusiasts about territorial conventions developed by Westerners over centuries (see the string-of-pearls and South China Sea) and preventing such a monopoly seems prudent.
SpaceX and Blue Origin may change all this.
 
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1446451597542821895
View: https://twitter.com/nasaartemis/status/1446451597542821895


The #Artemis I mission will be uncrewed, but that doesn’t mean @NASA_Orion will be empty. A manikin — Commander Moonikin Campos — will be used to collect important data for future missions!

Our experts will be answering your questions on @Reddit at 2-3pm ET on r/space. Join us!
Click to expand...
Artemis I has a new launch date next launch window extends from Feb 12 - 27, with the launch window opening February 12, 2022 at 5:56pm EST, just before sunset.
Click to expand...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1451602236220624898
View: https://twitter.com/StephenClark1/status/1451602236220624898

WDR is now January.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1451610099915665413
View: https://twitter.com/SciGuySpace/status/1451610099915665413
 
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It is to go..not for show as in Texas.

I think they may wind up launching within weeks of each other.

I’m happy we have two HLLVs…and no Delta II crutches.
 
taildragger said:
I suspect that the repeated cycle of:
1. announce a big long term space goal (Mars, asteroids, SSTO, return to the moon, etc.)
2. spend billions over years on engineering and administration
3. cancel before serious hardware is built and announce a new long term space goal
that went on for decades was not as ridiculous as it seemed. It allowed the USG to maintain a spaceflight infrastructure which could be turned on for real if needed while avoiding the cost of producing and flying hardware, even if it did create a bloated and inefficient industry. It was a much easier sell than "we're going to pay 10,000 (or whatever) engineers and scientists to sit around theorizing about what they'd like to build".
Click to expand...

I think you may be on to something here. But I suspect that this is maybe only about 30-40% of the reason (keep the space cadets "happy" while avoiding the cost of actually building flight hardware).

Besides budgetary battles (if NASA's budget goes up, someone's budget is going to be cut -- the US can't completely ignore reality, even if it wants to); there's also the factor that a large portion of the US population doesn't like Space travel (and this is concentrated in a specific political party); and would rather want that money to be spent on Earth helping $INSERT_CAUSE_HERE$.

Just look at the protests around the launch of Apollo 11, and more recently, when Branson and Bezos launched their Karman Line missions with paying customers.
 
From the NASA Spaceflight Forum:

February 22, 2022
MEDIA ADVISORY M22-026
NASA to Provide Media Update on Artemis I Moon Mission

NASA will host a media teleconference at 1:30 p.m. EST on Thursday, Feb. 24, to provide an update on progress toward the launch of the agency’s uncrewed Artemis I mission.
Artemis engineers are working through final closeout tasks for the launch, as well as integrated testing before the rocket rolls out to the pad at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida for the first time in mid-March.
Audio of the teleconference will stream live online at:

https://www.nasa.gov/live

Participating in the briefing are:

• Tom Whitmeyer, deputy associate administrator for exploration systems development, NASA Headquarters
• Mike Bolger, Exploration Ground Systems program manager, Kennedy
• Mike Sarafin, Artemis I mission manager, NASA Headquarters

To participate in the call, media must RSVP by at least two hours prior to the event to Madison Tuttle at: madison.e.tuttle@nasa.gov.

The agency will roll the combined Space Launch System rocket and Orion spacecraft out of the Vehicle Assembly Building to Launch Pad 39B at Kennedy for testing next month. This final test, known as the wet dress rehearsal, will run the launch team through operations to load propellant into the rocket’s tanks and conduct a full launch countdown. Following a successful rehearsal, NASA will roll the rocket stack back into the Vehicle Assembly Building for final checks and set an official target date for launch.
Through Artemis missions, NASA will land the first woman and the first person of color on the surface of the Moon, paving the way for a long-term lunar presence and serving as a steppingstone on the way to Mars.
Learn more about NASA’s Artemis I mission at:
https://www.nasa.gov/artemis-1
-end-
Click to expand...

So on February 24th there's going to be a NASA media briefing about the upcoming Artemis-1 flight and I hope that there are NO more delays.
 
NMaude said:
From the NASA Spaceflight Forum:

February 22, 2022
MEDIA ADVISORY M22-026
NASA to Provide Media Update on Artemis I Moon Mission

NASA will host a media teleconference at 1:30 p.m. EST on Thursday, Feb. 24, to provide an update on progress toward the launch of the agency’s uncrewed Artemis I mission.
Artemis engineers are working through final closeout tasks for the launch, as well as integrated testing before the rocket rolls out to the pad at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida for the first time in mid-March.
Audio of the teleconference will stream live online at:

https://www.nasa.gov/live

Participating in the briefing are:

• Tom Whitmeyer, deputy associate administrator for exploration systems development, NASA Headquarters
• Mike Bolger, Exploration Ground Systems program manager, Kennedy
• Mike Sarafin, Artemis I mission manager, NASA Headquarters

To participate in the call, media must RSVP by at least two hours prior to the event to Madison Tuttle at: madison.e.tuttle@nasa.gov.

The agency will roll the combined Space Launch System rocket and Orion spacecraft out of the Vehicle Assembly Building to Launch Pad 39B at Kennedy for testing next month. This final test, known as the wet dress rehearsal, will run the launch team through operations to load propellant into the rocket’s tanks and conduct a full launch countdown. Following a successful rehearsal, NASA will roll the rocket stack back into the Vehicle Assembly Building for final checks and set an official target date for launch.
Through Artemis missions, NASA will land the first woman and the first person of color on the surface of the Moon, paving the way for a long-term lunar presence and serving as a steppingstone on the way to Mars.
Learn more about NASA’s Artemis I mission at:
https://www.nasa.gov/artemis-1
-end-
Click to expand...

So on February 24th there's going to be a NASA media briefing about the upcoming Artemis-1 flight and I hope that there are NO more delays.
Click to expand...

Same here NMaude, I too hope that there are no more delays to the Artemis 1 launch, whenever it will come.
 
NMaude said:
sferrin said:
NMaude said:
sferrin said:
publiusr said:
I have no use for Garver. I want SLS for NTRs. Block Two needs supporting.
Click to expand...
Why? Launch them on Starship.
Click to expand...
Starship has yet to make one orbit.
Click to expand...
How many has SLS made?
Click to expand...
None, however you're suggesting it be replaced by something that is also unproven.
Click to expand...
What do you think the future of SLS is once Starship starts flying? (Assuming they're ever allowed to.)
 
sferrin said:
NMaude said:
sferrin said:
NMaude said:
sferrin said:
publiusr said:
I have no use for Garver. I want SLS for NTRs. Block Two needs supporting.
Click to expand...
Why? Launch them on Starship.
Click to expand...
Starship has yet to make one orbit.
Click to expand...
How many has SLS made?
Click to expand...
None, however you're suggesting it be replaced by something that is also unproven.
Click to expand...
What do you think the future of SLS is once Starship starts flying? (Assuming they're ever allowed to.)
Click to expand...
I can see at the very least the first four missions flying as Artemis-1 is ready to launch with Artemis-2 and -3 in various states of assembly (The first-stage for Artemis-2 IIRC is in final assembly) with components for Artemis-4 in manufacture. But likely we'll see up to Artemis-8 as NASA has enough Space Shuttle segments for eight SRB pairs.
 
I just stumbled across the below video about the Artemis-III LH2 being taken out for testing:


Originally built for Exploration Mission 1, this hydrogen tank was set aside due to a change in the welding technique. having fixed the welds, NASA plans on using this tank for the Artemis III lunar mission
Click to expand...

Assuming the testing is successful then after being painted and coated with spray on foam insulation thee tank will be going to final assembly.
 
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Of course, the Lego version of SLS ain’t cheap either….the pre-built Estes looks more accurate and is cheaper if smaller.

Minecraft, Legos and Funko pops. I don’t get the attraction.
 

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