Well, that's understatement, as Arjen actually took a much more active part here and
results would have been considerable different without his collaboration, actually
working on the graphics, too.
An interesting, but widely forgotten type, somehow strange looking, even for contemporary
standards.
Btw. Jemiba & Arjen - I'm trying to figure out how to get a better set of dimensions from the Lloyd L.K.1 - do you guys have any tips? I've been thinking of dredging up the old Austrio-Hungarian thread to talk about some of the challenges (there may be a couple of issues with the existing reconstruction).
Do you mean this one http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,21084.msg207896.html#msg207896 ?
Didn't check the drawing still yet, so I wasn't aware of faults in it.
Perhaps better to discuss it via PM or mail and just post the results here ?
Maybe not interesting to everybody and a bit out of the scope here ?
Some dimensions can be found here http://www.dieselpunks.org/profiles/blogs/knights-of-the-air-made-in,
although I couldn't find a source mentioned. Firts way could be, to check those against the 3-view.
The prototype wasn't fitted with any weapons, so the only dimensions, that cold be used as a
reference may be the outer engines.
Two SA Kocherigin twin-engined fighter designs - Kocherigin IT (Istrebitel' Tyazhelyi - Heavy Fighter) and Kocherigin DIS (Dalnij Istrebitel' Soprovozhdenya - Long-range Escort Fighter). Other sources give that first designation as IT-2 (Istrebitel Tankov - Tank Fighter)
http://epizodsspace.airbase.ru/bibl/tm/1938/8-9/sam-gryad.html
"Two beam "plane", which was shown at the Paris exhibition. The tail is close to the wing. This plane is a transitional phase to the tailing flights of flying wings."
Двух балочный» самолет, который демонстрировался на Парижской выставке. Хвостовое оперение приближено к крылу. Этот самолет — переходная ступень к бесхвостым «летающим крыльям»
Two tail plane demonstrated on Paris air show [in 1936]. Aircraft tail moved closely to wing. This plane is intermediate stage to tailless "flying wings".
Did anyone mention the World War 1, Llyod Luftkruiser? It was built in Austro-Hungary during WW1 and - thankfully - never entered service. It inherited a god-awful front turret and cockpit arrangement from its single-engine predecessor.
Now, radial engines and turrets are about equal width...alternating pusher/tractor nacelles might also give you a good firing arcs, heat-and the props blocking some fire?
Tangential, was watching a doc on prototype B-17 (??) gun-ships for escorting bombers. Nice out-bound, probably gave some Luftwaffen a bad time, but was still laden with armour and ammo on return leg, where the now-lighter bombers 'pulled away' leaving those unhappy gun-ships either utterly alone, or pacing damaged bombers with eg one engine out.
Perhaps workable with better engines, but impracticable as-is: Project urgently cancelled...
Besides, very long range fighter escorts had arrived...
I take it the 'Liberator' gun-ship version was similarly beset ??
A few tidbits about both the B-40 and the YB-41, both of which I have been researching for some time.
First, the B-40.
The B-40 project was based upon a request early in the war by the British, their daylight bombing experience with the early shark-tail B-17's being decidedly less than sanguine. They weren't terribly well protected and left a huge unprotected area in the tail with no gun back there. By the time the USAAF got around to fielding the B-40 the British wanted no part of it.
The original plans for the B-40 involved the use of the Allison V-1710. It became clear very early on that the amount of modifications for the wings to handle the cooling would take a tremendous amount of time and add a great deal of weight. The AAF wanted a "quick and dirty" escort, thus armament modifications to a standard B-17. The AAF was greatly looking forward to the protection the B-40 seemed to provide, enough so that they developed combat box tactics for entire squadrons of B-40's (which I have). The problems of the overweight B-40 have been presented before so I won't go into them now.
As for the YB-41, the AAF figured out that a flight of B-24's accompanied by a B-17 would just scream "this airplane is an escort!!". Thus the need for an appropriately-modified B-24 to accompany Liberators on combat missions. While I am going to go into a good deal of detail on the YB-41 in a future book title I'm working on, the biggest problem was too much weight on an already-overloaded aircraft. Not only was overheating a problem, but the aircraft could not make it to the altitude at which the bombers would fly and it handled like a brick.
The B-40 and YB-41 were far from the final word on the "convoy escorts". Similar versions of both the B-32 and the B-29 were designed. Beyond that, prospective designs for more advanced escorts were developed, although fairly crudely drawn.
G6M1 of Naval Air Technical Arsenal, later used by Takao Kokutai
Some 30 G4M were remodelled this way. Due to the additional weight of the expanded ammunition load the aircraft were too slow to follow the standard bombers, especially after bomb release. The fuel load at start also had to be reduced limiting the range. Both was rated inacceptable so after operational tests the remaining G6M were used for crew training and transport purposes.
Nakajima Ki-58 Heavy Escort Fighter:
Escort fighter version of the Nakajima Ki-49 Heavy Bomber. 3 prototypes were built but it seems there were similar problems as with the G6M. No serial production.
Nakajima Ki-80 Formation Leader Bomber:
Ki-80 was a planned formation leader version of the Ki-49. AFAIK it was similar to the standard aircraft but with additional navigation and wireless equipment. 2 prototypes were built before the project was cancelled. At least one was later used as test bed for the planned upgrade of the Ki-49-II with the more powerful HA-117 radials. I wouldn´t count it as a fighter.
Mitsubishi Ki-69 Heavy Escort Fighter:
Planned escort version of the Ki-67 Heavy Bomber. Cancelled before prototype production started.
Mitsubishi Ki-109 Heavy Fighter:
Bomber formation destroyer version of the Ki-67 Heavy Bomber with a fighter aircraft armed with a nose-mounted Ho-501 75 mm gun and 15 shots (modified Type 88 75 mm anti-aircraft gun) developed from late 1944. For night attacks a spotter version equipped with a wing-mounted searchlight was planned. Both versions should work as pairs. Later a searchlight was added on the upper right of the gun making the searchlight version unnecessary.
The first prototype only had the necessary remodelled nose. During innitial tests the aircraft was streamlined by removing the small side armament cupolas and the upper cupola. They were rated unnecessary for the intended purpose.Only the tail gun was kept.
There were also few tests with a simple rocket engine fired from the bomb bay to allow faster approach to the enemy formations. During the innitial tests the aircraft showed various problems reaching the flying height of the B29 bombers. So it was decided to use the aircraft for heavy ground attacks during the expected invasion, especially as landing craft killer. They were kept save for this purpose. Therefore they were never used operational. 22 aircraft were built.
Not an escort fighter but a kind of "battleplane"....
Mitsubishi Ki-112Heavy Escort Fighter:
Planned "Wooden" version of the Ki-69 Heavy Escort Fighter armed with 8 X 12,7 mm Ho-103 MGs and a 20 mm Ho-5 Machine Cannon. Wood should repace as many elements as possible to spare metal. Cancelled during the early development phase.
So much for my knowledge. Corrections and additions welcome.
Back to the AAF's discussions of "convoy escort" aircraft.
The AAF gave very serious thoughts to using heavily-armed B-26's as convoy escorts. I may even have some photos of an early iteration.
Fortunately, they did not proceed with this. As I see it, there were a number of inherent problems with the plan:
1. There are certainly questions about whether the B-26 could carry both adequate fuel and weapons to keep up with the "convoy" to and from the target.
2. The B-26 was certainly not maneuverable enough to do anything but chug along next to the formation. No dog fighting.
3. After 10 minutes over enemy territory into the first mission it would be perfectly obvious what the purpose of the B-26's was and they would be the first aircraft to be taken out by German fighters, thus leaving the bombers where they would have been had the B-26's never been modified.
4. Could these heavy B-26's have reached and maintained the same cruising altitude as the bombers? Probably not.
The whole issue of the "convoy escort" is much more involved than any book to date has examined or revealed. I intend to eventually give the whole story.
I would think Mosquitos with rocket pods would be perfect candidates...play chicken with FW-190s as they dodge rockets. Rocket boost as the bombers escape-jettison the spent pods as incendiaries-or fire backwards to deter pursuit.
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