Mindblowingly insane secret projects

[Avimimus]

(to make a megalomaniac blush)

Very much inspired by Scott's Orion Battleship reconstructions:
www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3869.15.html

And SLAM/PLUTO:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1319.msg11515.html#msg11515

The P.1500 pictures Taranov dug up:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2240.30.html

Or the Soviet land-battleships and ball tanks:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,12783.0.html

The Lockheed 6000 ton nuclear powered bomber/flying-aircraft carrier...

Or the Adlershof 24 Crew 10,000 P.S. Eindecker:
flyingmachines.ru/Site2/Crafts/Craft31379.htm


Know of any others?

What is your favourite bit of madness?

 

[phrenzy]

Some of the monster nukes surely fall into this category. The original design for the tsar Bomba was 100Mt. That deserves a place on the list of anything does but I know there were some kooks plans for bigger ones.

 

[bobbymike]

The wisdom of Curtis LeMay we cold use a man like him again ;D

Pastore: Do you see any military need for a 50- or 75-megaton bomb?

LeMay: Yes, sir; I do. The Joint Chiefs have already recommended we go ahead with the development work on a large-yield bomb.

Pastore: Is this a new policy?

LeMay: It is not new as far as I am concerned. I asked for, the Air Force asked for, a high-yield bomb as early as 1954 We have discussed for a long period of time the requirement for a very large-yield weapon, and there has always been a difference of opinion about whether we should have it or not where you could do just as well with smaller weapons… In addition to that, just the mere fact that the Russians will have one will, I think, be a strong psychological factor if we don’t have one, too

 

[Michel Van]

the "Little" Lockheed aircraft is the CL-1201 proposal
Just a tiny little plane...

ORION nuclear Pulds engine using Atomic bombs
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3869.0.html
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3295.0.html

the Adlershof and other big ones WW1 bomber
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7594.0.html

ICEWORM / ICEMAN
digging in greenland ice a ICBM complex that would cover 52,000 square miles, and have 550 modified Minutemen missiles
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,19223.0.html

 

[bobbymike]

ICEWORM / ICEMAN
digging in greenland ice a ICBM complex that would cover 52,000 square miles, and have 550 modified Minutemen missiles
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,19223.0.html

Any project that would have deployed ICBMs in the multiple hundreds I call a prudent program ;D

 

[sferrin]

While it's not a weapon I'd think this certainly qualifies for the list:

http://www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com/blog/?p=1049

(Nuclear reactor on a road-mobile truck for power supply. Didn't want to copy/paste it all from Scott's blog.)

 

[carsinamerica]

LeMay: It is not new as far as I am concerned. I asked for, the Air Force asked for, a high-yield bomb as early as 1954 We have discussed for a long period of time the requirement for a very large-yield weapon, and there has always been a difference of opinion about whether we should have it or not where you could do just as well with smaller weapons… In addition to that, just the mere fact that the Russians will have one will, I think, be a strong psychological factor if we don’t have one, too

Ahh, the wisdom of LeMay, pushing policy like a 6-year-old. "But I want a new toy, too! Ivan has one, why can't I?" Ridiculous.

 

[carsinamerica]

I don't know about mind-blowingly insane, but the Boeing Pelican was a pretty "out there" idea. 500 ft wingspan? 76 wheels? Conventional runways? Ground-effect flight over oceans? Oi.

 

[RadicalDisconnect]

Colonel Robin Olds' opinion of LeMay is less than flattering. "Nuclear nutcase" is the phrase he used in his memoir, I believe.

 

[bobbymike]

LeMay: It is not new as far as I am concerned. I asked for, the Air Force asked for, a high-yield bomb as early as 1954 We have discussed for a long period of time the requirement for a very large-yield weapon, and there has always been a difference of opinion about whether we should have it or not where you could do just as well with smaller weapons… In addition to that, just the mere fact that the Russians will have one will, I think, be a strong psychological factor if we don’t have one, too

Ahh, the wisdom of LeMay, pushing policy like a 6-year-old. "But I want a new toy, too! Ivan has one, why can't I?" Ridiculous.

Every arms race in history is just a battle of '6-year olds' in your opinion? Every evolution or revolution in weaponry has numerous countries shouting 'I want one too'

 

[sferrin]

LeMay: It is not new as far as I am concerned. I asked for, the Air Force asked for, a high-yield bomb as early as 1954 We have discussed for a long period of time the requirement for a very large-yield weapon, and there has always been a difference of opinion about whether we should have it or not where you could do just as well with smaller weapons… In addition to that, just the mere fact that the Russians will have one will, I think, be a strong psychological factor if we don’t have one, too

Ahh, the wisdom of LeMay, pushing policy like a 6-year-old. "But I want a new toy, too! Ivan has one, why can't I?" Ridiculous.

I'll bet you can guess how much anybody cares about your opinion of Lemay in this thread.

 

[martinbayer]

The Goodyear Project Champion proposal for the US Navy idea of a ramjet powered inflatable Mach 3 high altitude reconnaissance vehicle that would have required a one mile diameter balloon to lift it to its initial altitude (makes one wonder what kind of ship designs the Air Force would come up with if only anybody let them): http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2978.0/all.html

Martin

 

[fredymac]

Rods from heaven?

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacegunconvent.php

 

[merriman]

Colonel Robin Olds' opinion of LeMay is less than flattering. "Nuclear nutcase" is the phrase he used in his memoir, I believe.

That 'nuclear nutcase', and his good works -- during and after the war -- kept my Dad off the pointy end of a bamboo lance, thank you very much! We need more, not fewer, meat-eaters driving things in this nation.

David

 

[bobbymike]

X-ray laser for missile defense pumped by a nuke explosion probably qualifies. To me prudent to others ??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Excalibur

 

[Ian33]

Pffftttt.......All mere child's play in the world of warfare.


See all your wonder weapons, raise you 'Talking Allah plasma ball'

 

[Orionblamblam]

Doomsday Orion.

 

[Avimimus]

It was actually purchasing a copy of your article on the military Orions (and JFK's reaction to the mockup) that caused me to start this thread.

X-ray laser for missile defense pumped by a nuke explosion probably qualifies. To me prudent to others ??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Excalibur

It depends where you point it doesn't it? I mean a remote controlled death ray going 7.8 km/s has to be safe eh?

 

[Avimimus]

Habakkuk probably qualifies simply due to scale:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8045.0.html

 

[carsinamerica]

I'll bet you can guess how much anybody cares about your opinion of Lemay in this thread.

I don't want to derail this thread, but you ought be civil. The topics on this forum interest me just as much as they interest you. Moreover, just as Bobbymike is to free to extol the virtues of a policy, I'm free to critique it, or vice versa. I appreciate that this forum doesn't descent into mudslinging contests, but there's room for two sides. You aren't the only one entitled to an opinion.

Off my soap-box and back on-topic, I'm trying to remember the name of that plan for truly gigantic superliners in the 1960s. There was meant to be more than one, I remember that much. They were included in Damned by Destiny, and were wildly out of touch with the changing world.

 

[sferrin]

I'll bet you can guess how much anybody cares about your opinion of Lemay in this thread.

I don't want to derail this thread, but you ought be civil.

"I don't want to derail this thread, so I'm gonna derail this thread again." Here's a novel idea, how 'bout we just control ourselves and stick to the topic? Can we manage that?

 

[Avimimus]

It seems almost appropriate given the topic. But, perhaps another thread on projects that suggest their supporters were insane?

Anyway, I'm sure anyone who was given one of these to operate must've experienced a strange set of feelings: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device)


Nuclear landmines also evoke a bit of madness... (as they involve visiting ground zero to plant the device - a bit less detachment).

 

[Orionblamblam]

I'm sure anyone who was given one of these to operate must've experienced a strange set of feelings: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device)

My dad got to guard one of those Back In The Day. And as part of his guardly duties, he got to open fire with an M-60 machine gun upon a US Senator who refused to back away from it when ordered. Later got commended by his commanding officer for being the only one with the sense to actually do what was needed to prevent an unauthorized person from approaching a live nuclear device. Then got reprimanded for *missing* the person when he opened fire (officially no such thing as "warning shots"). Then got thanked for missing that same person, being as it was a Senator and all.

 

[Rickshaw]

LeMay: It is not new as far as I am concerned. I asked for, the Air Force asked for, a high-yield bomb as early as 1954 We have discussed for a long period of time the requirement for a very large-yield weapon, and there has always been a difference of opinion about whether we should have it or not where you could do just as well with smaller weapons… In addition to that, just the mere fact that the Russians will have one will, I think, be a strong psychological factor if we don’t have one, too

Ahh, the wisdom of LeMay, pushing policy like a 6-year-old. "But I want a new toy, too! Ivan has one, why can't I?" Ridiculous.

I'll bet you can guess how much anybody cares about your opinion of Lemay in this thread.

Actually, it's refreshing to see that not everyone is so enamoured of the "blow it up now with nukes" school of thought.

 

[Rickshaw]

Colonel Robin Olds' opinion of LeMay is less than flattering. "Nuclear nutcase" is the phrase he used in his memoir, I believe.

That 'nuclear nutcase', and his good works -- during and after the war -- kept my Dad off the pointy end of a bamboo lance, thank you very much! We need more, not fewer, meat-eaters driving things in this nation.

David

Mmm, interesting way of describing the deliberate incineration of hundreds of thousands of people as "good works". Even more interesting to consider how he wanted to increase his death toll a hundred fold by starting an atomic war with the Soviet Union.

It could be argued what Lemay did was a "necessary evil" but it cannot IMHO be argued it wasn't evil. It may have saved your father from being impaled on a bamboo lance (although I suspect not many Japanese lance yielders would have survived to actually achieve that, considering the massive firepower and the willingness to employ it on the slightest whim that the potential US forces were to employ in any hypothetical invasion of Japan) but it cost hundreds of thousands of noncombatant lives to achieve it.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Dumb thread just got dumber.


Basic ingredients:


Take one or more historical events. Consider the potential of what if? With minimal technical understanding and little or no attributable factual basis. Add hindsight. Mix with a major dose of contemporary political disagreement. Stir vigorously over heat for 15 minutes. Serve onto internet discussion forum or blogsite wanting to increase hits for Google add sense money. Contribute to understanding of the world: nothing.

 

[tiikki]

It easy to say that something completely new was mindblowingly insane if it didn't work. But what if it had worked like shipborne reactors did?

For me mindblowingly insane is to spend enormous amount of energy, time and resources for impractical egoboost type weapons (Maus, Ratte, etc).
Tsar Bomba is borderline case in here, it wasn't a weapon of war it was a weapon of propaganda and if believing this source it wasn't even expensive project to start with. http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Russia/TsarBomba.html

 

[Mat Parry]

Leo Szilard's theoretical cobalt 60 bombs

http://www.peterdsmith.com/doomsday-men-the-real-dr-strangelove-and-the-dream-of-the-superweapon/

I'm sure there are better links, (this is the book that I read on the subject)

 

[merriman]

Colonel Robin Olds' opinion of LeMay is less than flattering. "Nuclear nutcase" is the phrase he used in his memoir, I believe.

That 'nuclear nutcase', and his good works -- during and after the war -- kept my Dad off the pointy end of a bamboo lance, thank you very much! We need more, not fewer, meat-eaters driving things in this nation.

David

Mmm, interesting way of describing the deliberate incineration of hundreds of thousands of people as "good works". Even more interesting to consider how he wanted to increase his death toll a hundred fold by starting an atomic war with the Soviet Union.

It could be argued what Lemay did was a "necessary evil" but it cannot IMHO be argued it wasn't evil. It may have saved your father from being impaled on a bamboo lance (although I suspect not many Japanese lance yielders would have survived to actually achieve that, considering the massive firepower and the willingness to employ it on the slightest whim that the potential US forces were to employ in any hypothetical invasion of Japan) but it cost hundreds of thousands of noncombatant lives to achieve it.

It's easy to be charitable, kind, and interested in the well being of the Japanese when you are separated by time and geography from those terrible events. Permit me to be blunt: Those tough, little SOB's were going to fight to the last person. The war had to be stopped, and we used the correct tools to do it.

To the point: my Dad survived, that's all that matters to me.

God bless Lemay. And hellish furey to those who attack this (formerly) Great Nation.

David

 

[mjinnj]

LeMay: It is not new as far as I am concerned. I asked for, the Air Force asked for, a high-yield bomb as early as 1954 We have discussed for a long period of time the requirement for a very large-yield weapon, and there has always been a difference of opinion about whether we should have it or not where you could do just as well with smaller weapons… In addition to that, just the mere fact that the Russians will have one will, I think, be a strong psychological factor if we don’t have one, too

Ahh, the wisdom of LeMay, pushing policy like a 6-year-old. "But I want a new toy, too! Ivan has one, why can't I?" Ridiculous.

I agree with ya , btw didn't lemay say somthing about if the allies lost ww2 he would be brought up on war crimes for Tokyo fire bombing ?

 

[Grey Havoc]

Getting back on track, two more candidates:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,18648.0.html

and

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,595.msg192383.html#msg192383

 

[GTX]

Dumb thread just got dumber.


Basic ingredients:


Take one or more historical events. Consider the potential of what if? With minimal technical understanding and little or no attributable factual basis. Add hindsight. Mix with a major dose of contemporary political disagreement. Stir vigorously over heat for 15 minutes. Serve onto internet discussion forum or blogsite wanting to increase hits for Google add sense money. Contribute to understanding of the world: nothing.

Seconded.

 

[carsinamerica]

I agree with ya , btw didn't lemay say somthing about if the allies lost ww2 he would be brought up on war crimes for Tokyo fire bombing ?

He did. "Killing Japanese didn't bother me very much at that time... I suppose if I had lost the war, I would have been tried as a war criminal.... Every soldier thinks something of the moral aspects of what he is doing. But all war is immoral and if you let that bother you, you're not a good soldier."

McNamara said something similar in The Fog of War.

 

[carsinamerica]

It didn't have the same environmental challenges as ICEWORM, but MX MPS and Racetrack was pretty stupendous in scale too. It would have consumed half of US concrete production for years (three? seven? I can't remember). The most interesting part was the USAF's admission that the 200/4600 system might not last, and that they might need 9200 shelters by the mid-1990s, and more thereafter.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Enough with the Lemay stuff.

 

[bobbymike]

It didn't have the same environmental challenges as ICEWORM, but MX MPS and Racetrack was pretty stupendous in scale too. It would have consumed half of US concrete production for years (three? seven? I can't remember). The most interesting part was the USAF's admission that the 200/4600 system might not last, and that they might need 9200 shelters by the mid-1990s, and more thereafter.

So there seems to be three 'general' categories; 1) Insane in scale, 2) Insane in concept, 3) Both scale and concept

Would you add 'Densepack' into the mix of ICBM deployments concepts? Come to think of it the MX basing thread probably has a few 'concepts' that could be classified insane??

 

[Avimimus]

Definitely.

Arsenal ships also have that sense of concentrated firepower:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,689.0.html

The Boeing Span Loader designs (especially the armed ones) certainly qualify for scale:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,15299.msg66665.html#msg66665

The idea of mounting four 88mm cannons on a giant P.08 also has a bit of that feeling:
http://www.luft46.com/mess/mep08.html

I'm sure anyone who was given one of these to operate must've experienced a strange set of feelings: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device)

My dad got to guard one of those Back In The Day. And as part of his guardly duties, he got to open fire with an M-60 machine gun upon a US Senator who refused to back away from it when ordered. Later got commended by his commanding officer for being the only one with the sense to actually do what was needed to prevent an unauthorized person from approaching a live nuclear device. Then got reprimanded for *missing* the person when he opened fire (officially no such thing as "warning shots"). Then got thanked for missing that same person, being as it was a Senator and all.

Neat story. It appears that U.S. Senators also provoke a mixed set of feelings

 

[Avimimus]

Oh - and hubris:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6188.msg58977.html

 

[Avimimus]

100 Megaton torpedo?
http://www.aip.org/history/sakharov/dangers2.htm

 

[sferrin]

Oh - and hubris:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6188.msg58977.html

I think I'm missing something here.

Re. Arsenal Ships, I always thought they were a stupid idea. I understood the reasoning but man, talk about putting all of your eggs in one basket.