Messerschmitt Me 262 B-2 turboprop variant

[maccountrypilot]

Interesting idea ... seems to have had a model kit made but I haven't found any plans, measured drawings or three views

 

[richard]

I believe , it's a "What-if" ...

 

[PlanesPictures]

Pictures of project

 

[Justo Miranda]

Hi...

 

[Stargazer]

So it WAS a real project after all. Thanks Justo for the confirmation, and congrats to Jozef Gatial who outdid himself once again in these remarkable illustrations.

 

[richard]

The engine was real project , but the Me 262 with this engine ?

 

[Nick Sumner]

I must confess to being a little confused by the drawing Justo posted. The main spar on this project appears to go right through the centre of the engine. I realise the props have to be kept clear of the ground so unless an extra long undercarriage leg is possible shouldn't the engine be in an overwing mounting like the Lockheed Orion? Am I missing something?

 

[Jemiba]

Maybe the spar would have been modified, as in some other designs, with a
ring shaped section for attaching the engines ? Principally possible, I think,
but quite a modification, not very probable due to the already overstretched
resources with regards to engineering ..

 

[Nick Sumner]

that kind of engine/wing spar layout tends to work because the nacelle mounts the engine in front of the spar with engine exhaust at the engine side. With the Me 262 derived design shown the spar has to go around the engine somehow, or the engine around the spar.

Or I could be missing something...

 

[PlanesPictures]

some next turbotrops. Ten years ago I have done for David Myhra 600-700 2D and 3D pictures of Me-262 projects. But only three from planned eight volumes were printed out. I still have idea to export these 3D models from PovRay in my todays rendering software. But I had my own studio for texture mapping and collecting full models from different parts including cutting off some parts of models with boolean operation etc. No way how to export these complicated sources. Only to use ready 3D models from modeler and to export and to texture them again

 

[PlanesPictures]

and two next pictures

 

[Basil]

Perhaps a little off-topic and more suited for the propulsion-section of this forum - but some details regarding the turboprop engine for the planned turboprop night fighter variant of the Me-262: Daimler Benz took over the development from Heinkel (work overload) in cooperation with the companies Voith and VDM. There were two variants of propeller rotation - one in the same direction like the turbo machinery ("Gleichsinngetriebe" as mentioned above) and one in the opposite direction to cancel out some of the propeller and compressor torque. Propeller was a six blade unit with a diameter of 2,5 meters and highly loaded blades. The power going to the propeller at sea level was 2000 hp with a residual thrust 770 kp (7,5 kN) - the numbers mentioned in the drawing provided by Justo are incorrect. Compared to today´s civil turboprops a high proportion of the power output was provided by the jet thrust - it´s a kind of open rotor turboprop/turbofan with a by pass ratio of 8,5. The compressor/turbine rotated at 11000 rpm while the propeller speed was reduced by a planetary gear by the factor of 5,82. Total dry weight was 1300 kg.

 

[Justo Miranda]

From these two FIRST CLASS books...

 

[Stargazer]

Thanks once again, Justo...

Mr. Gatial, you are spoiling us! ;D

 

[PlanesPictures]

to be allowed to release all my 3000 - 3500 pictures of planes I will do it. For now I prefer these levels of abstraction painted by hand. But I hope my collections of Archangel and Fish/Kingfish family I will finish

 

[Sundog]

that kind of engine/wing spar layout tends to work because the nacelle mounts the engine in front of the spar with engine exhaust at the engine side. With the Me 262 derived design shown the spar has to go around the engine somehow, or the engine around the spar.

Or I could be missing something...

This layout worked out just fine for the Canberra.

 

[Orionblamblam]

For now I prefer these levels of abstraction painted by hand.

 

[Orionblamblam]

This layout worked out just fine for the Canberra.

And the Gloster Meteor.

 

[Arjen]

The turboprop Meteor was known for the inefficiency of its propellors. Their blades had to be kept short, to keep them from touching the ground. As the turboprop Meteor was a testbed, its inefficiency was acceptable - sort of. To use the midwing engine mounting on the Me 262 imposes wing redesign. Taller landing gear would have been needed for longer propellor blades, as already noted by Nick Sumner. More effort at a time when quick solutions were called for. Overwing mounting of the engines seems to be a less design-intensive solution.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Additional info

 

[PlanesPictures]

next pictures for you

 

[PlanesPictures]

next pictures for you

 

[PlanesPictures]

next pictures for you

 

[PlanesPictures]

What a pity we didn't finish a few from last prepared projects. It is life. My first model of Me-262 A-1 was based on sources from net. But when Marek Rys sent to me his excellent drawing of Me-262 I restarted work on 3D model from scratch and I have done excellent base for all next versions. And only thanks to David Myhra I was able to do this the largest collection of Me-262's projects in the world

 

[Johnbr]

Jozef You do great work.

 

[Stargazer]

Truly an amazing collection! Thanks a lot Jozef for sharing your talent with us.

 

[Jemiba]

Great ! Just one question: There's sometimes a two-seat variant in the day fighter role.
Which versions are these ?

 

[PlanesPictures]

I'm sorry but names of models were only my temporary name (Me-262 w45 = wing with angle 45 deg) because in that time for some projects I didn't have more infos only drawings. As I wrote three books were printed out and next three or four where prepared and sent to publisher. I never saw thouse not printed out manuscripts. David Myhra had huge unique collection of Me-262's photos and next sources (a lot of them he sent to me for better 3d modelling) and it is disadvantage for us that thouse books are lost for readers. David Myhra is author of a lot of books on Luft'46 projects and we started work on multivolumed rich illustrated Luft'46 encyclopaedia. I still have a lot of prepared Arado 3D models but it is now only death history. Due to crise and very expensive similar books it wasn't chance to sold them out. What a pitty we were able in next 10 years to do it. I have done for David 500-600 simple pictures of all von Braun projects but what I know that book was not printed out, too

 

[Justo Miranda]

Great ! Just one question: There's sometimes a two-seat variant in the day fighter role.
Which versions are these ?

Is a Me 262 B-2 (12 february 1945) with two HeS 011 turbojets,45º swept wing,and FuG 219 Weilheim
all weather radar with 20 cm. diameter parabolic (fixed) Siemens antler.

 

[theponja]

I'm sorry but names of models were only my temporary name (Me-262 w45 = wing with angle 45 deg) because in that time for some projects I didn't have more infos only drawings. As I wrote three books were printed out and next three or four where prepared and sent to publisher. I never saw thouse not printed out manuscripts. David Myhra had huge unique collection of Me-262's photos and next sources (a lot of them he sent to me for better 3d modelling) and it is disadvantage for us that thouse books are lost for readers. David Myhra is author of a lot of books on Luft'46 projects and we started work on multivolumed rich illustrated Luft'46 encyclopaedia. I still have a lot of prepared Arado 3D models but it is now only death history. Due to crise and very expensive similar books it wasn't chance to sold them out. What a pitty we were able in next 10 years to do it. I have done for David 500-600 simple pictures of all von Braun projects but what I know that book was not printed out, too

Really , really sad to hear that.

I'm a fan of the Red Baron and the me-262 is one of my favorite planes. You make my day with the picture of the red interceptor. Do you have an historical source for that color?

 

[Jemiba]

There was at least a Me 163 in a complete red paint scheme, that is proven to be authentic. It was
applied to the Me 163 B-0 with the registration PK+QL, serial number 16310050 for the first service
tests, more or less as a joke, but removed soon.
Let's just assume, that this colour was used for the Me 262 as a kind of psychological warfare during
the end of 1945 ...

 

[theponja]

Let's just assume, that this colour was used for the Me 262 as a kind of psychological warfare during
the end of 1945 ...

I have to clarify: I'm very happy with the picture and if Josef just paint it because he wanted it's perfectly OK.
I was just curious if we have some clue of this colour used for some reason. You answered it perfectly

 

[PlanesPictures]

Please keep in mind. Every two-three days I had to finish next version of new Me-262 project what from my todays point of view is self killing job. What color scheme you can use for some 60 years old sketch? I remember for this version I used color scheme of Me-163 as Jemiba noted. For only one color scheme I used my fantasy (it was presented in one from printed out book ) all next was based on some german plane color scheme. It wasn't time for long discussion. But for 120-130 color schemes of really build planes we tried to present original color scheme but as you know other source other details. It is true some planes had more color schemes and it is not simple way to do it. In this job there are thousands hours of hard work. Two years 5-6 hours daily in evenings and nights. But we were in that time, we and David, ten years younger. Next cooperation with Constantin Udalov was similar hard job. I remember only clearing of rivets on M-50 wing took two evenings of work. Only five versions from 40 is ready. And why I'm tired?

 

[Justo Miranda]

red

 

[Jemiba]

Not to be misunderstood: You did a great job, and although my suggestion of the red paint scheme
was tongue in cheek, the Me 262 attacking B-29 bombers make clear, that it actually isn't a real
scene from WW II times. The Me 262 actually was feared by US bomber crews and there where
fighter groups, where high-scoring pilots were concentrated. So, why not give them a special paint
scheme, to show the enemy "Look, we are here ... AND WE ARE HERE FOR YOU !" AFAIK the very
conspicious tail colours of several US fighter groups often served the same reason. So, to me it's
nothing wrong about it, it's as what-if, as pictures of a never realised aircarft in service. And it is a
plausible what-if, and to me plausibility should be a touchstone, ewverything else is just phantasy.
Your pictures show, what could have been and it's great, that they do this with a closeness to reality
not seen before !
The only problem sometimes is: When you make a picture about, say, the Avro 730 it's absolutely
clear, that the paint scheme is fictional, because the aircraft was never built. In the case of a picture
with a Me 262 the question about the used paint scheme may arise, of course, but as said before,
you principally answered the question by the B-29 in the same picture.
So, again, great work !

 

[theponja]

Justo a like your post "rojo"

A couple of questions: the red me-262 which version is? Because I can see the engines aren't the standard ones. And the other which call my attention is the one which jpg is call: me262_asu2_4 . I tought this one was for the mistel 4 combination but the picture shows it as bomber.
A 3d view can be great.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Hi

 

[toura]

HELLO ALL

 

[borovik]

Justo a like your post "rojo"

A couple of questions: the red me-262 which version is? Because I can see the engines aren't the standard ones.

My opinion this is Me 262 Interzepter III with HWK 509
drawing by Marek Rys

 

[Jemiba]

My opinion this is Me 262 Interzepter III with HWK 509
drawing by Marek Rys

Would second to this, as the nacelles protrude above the wing, unlike in other versions.
The "Heimatschützer III" so seems to have been purely rocket powered. Was it intended
to land as glider, as the Me 163 ?