Please don't take this as a rebuke, good sir, or as being mean-spirited or anything, but David's been doing this sort of thing (being in "Mentor Mode") for a long time ... and back, twenty-some years ago, when he was posting (elsewhere) in a fashion like the one you described, (some) people crapped all over him, in a VERY public fashion. I won't name people's names, or even site names. One of the kinds of comments I remember the most vividly, was that one of David's masterclasses (my term for it, not David's) about a specific sci-fi vehicle, was far too verbose. Far too long. The claim made, back then, by persons like that, was essentially that anyone who actually knew what they were doing, could explain it in far less words / pages / pictures than David had used. Those of us who "stuck with it" and re-re-re-read anything that we didn't at first understand, and who looked at pictures, over and over and over (at intervals; it need not be done in one sitting) ended up with all kinds of cool and awesome knowledge. Those who chose to be hyper-critical, back then, didn't seem to get much out of doing that sort of thing. My advice, as someone who still loves to sit at that feet of a master model builder, is to allow yourself the time it will take, to learn this stuff, incrementally. If you pick up one percent at a time, in one session, and another percent, in another session -- that's good progress. At least as I see it, anyway. I guess I'm trying to say, "Don't expect knowledge acquisition to be fast or to be super-obvious, right away." Another point I'd make is that a lot of folks don't know as much about a subject (and I'm not even limiting that to this hobby, let alone, to these forums!) as they think they do. David's been there. For decades. He knows what works. And what doesn't work well -- both in terms of materials, and processes; along with tools, et cetera. Studying at his feet has been one of the things I personally have felt humbly privileged to have done, over the last two decades or more, now. Ages ago, in private emails, he was answering questions I had about how to "loft off" lines and what not, so that I could better replicate things like sci-fi space ships that had very complicated hull shapes. After putting in all kinds of work, and getting to the point where I had reasonably good / accurate plan view drawings of the Dark Star spacecraft, and a profile view drawing, and end view drawings. I was looking at the huge work load it took for me to get to that point. I was tired. I wanted to quit -- on my own project, mind you! I was thinking "time to let the master take over, if he's willing to do so" from that point on. But no, he stressed (gently but firmly) that without multiple drawings of cross sections, too, the drawings I was trying to create, weren't going to be enough for someone who built things from scratch, to be able to make a 3D physical replica of that fictional space craft. My point is that it took me one more full year, as I recall it now, to get to the point where I had "stumbled through" some different ways to figure out how to do what needed to be done, next. But every craft I built a model of, from that point in time, always had OODLES of cross-sectional drawings included. It took me a long time to get to the point where I appreciated how much those added to a set of drawings. He kindly answered any of my questions -- BUT -- I had to basically prove that I had tried, first. I had to be able to show him "this is what I tried, and these are the results I ended up with". And THEN he was more than kind with his time, in answering my "Now what?" questions.David, I am in utterly absolute awe of your craft, and I am unsurprisingly dead certain that I will never ascend anywhere near your level of mastery. My only point is that for craftsmen way above my league you might consider putting more detailed explanations with your visuals to allow kindred spirits to carry on your trade as a legacy.
Which some of us still very much treasure ... the old DVD's from CultTVman's site ... Cabal Reports on the web, from days gone by ... and various back issues of Fine Scale Modeler, or the original iteration of Sci-Fi & Fantasy Modeler, or any number of other cool old magazine appearances.Thanks. When Ellie and I established D&E Miniatures we had to build what the client wanted. Now that I'm retired, I build WHAT I WANT to build. I wish I had done a better job of photo-documenting more of that work. Most of our work now only seen in old copies of model magazines, trade organs, and the occasional yellowed magazine or newspaper article. Oh, well.
I take note of your opinion and maintain mine . I strongly disagree with your statement that "There is no happy medium". I have only seen a small fraction of David's oeuvre over the decades, so I am unaware of the large majority of the documentary output he's already offered, and as a result it may well be the case that there was a point in time where the balance between text and illustrations he used to explain his approach would have been optimal in my view, but a pictureless wall of words (like the one you produced above ) is clearly one extreme, while simply posting a set of sequential progress photographs without any explanations at all is the other. Based on your message to David I downloaded his Nautilus Drydocks files, and I would much prefer a return to that format that includes written explanations and references to techniques, processes, materials, tools, parts, and products, but I realize that beggars and freeloaders can't be choosers, so I'll take what I can get .Please don't take this as a rebuke, good sir, or as being mean-spirited or anything, but David's been doing this sort of thing (being in "Mentor Mode") for a long time ... and back, twenty-some years ago, when he was posting (elsewhere) in a fashion like the one you described, (some) people crapped all over him, in a VERY public fashion. I won't name people's names, or even site names. One of the kinds of comments I remember the most vividly, was that one of David's masterclasses (my term for it, not David's) about a specific sci-fi vehicle, was far too verbose. Far too long. The claim made, back then, by persons like that, was essentially that anyone who actually knew what they were doing, could explain it in far less words / pages / pictures than David had used. Those of us who "stuck with it" and re-re-re-read anything that we didn't at first understand, and who looked at pictures, over and over and over (at intervals; it need not be done in one sitting) ended up with all kinds of cool and awesome knowledge. Those who chose to be hyper-critical, back then, didn't seem to get much out of doing that sort of thing. My advice, as someone who still loves to sit at that feet of a master model builder, is to allow yourself the time it will take, to learn this stuff, incrementally. If you pick up one percent at a time, in one session, and another percent, in another session -- that's good progress. At least as I see it, anyway. I guess I'm trying to say, "Don't expect knowledge acquisition to be fast or to be super-obvious, right away." Another point I'd make is that a lot of folks don't know as much about a subject (and I'm not even limiting that to this hobby, let alone, to these forums!) as they think they do. David's been there. For decades. He knows what works. And what doesn't work well -- both in terms of materials, and processes; along with tools, et cetera. Studying at his feet has been one of the things I personally have felt humbly privileged to have done, over the last two decades or more, now. Ages ago, in private emails, he was answering questions I had about how to "loft off" lines and what not, so that I could better replicate things like sci-fi space ships that had very complicated hull shapes. After putting in all kinds of work, and getting to the point where I had reasonably good / accurate plan view drawings of the Dark Star spacecraft, and a profile view drawing, and end view drawings. I was looking at the huge work load it took for me to get to that point. I was tired. I wanted to quit -- on my own project, mind you! I was thinking "time to let the master take over, if he's willing to do so" from that point on. But no, he stressed (gently but firmly) that without multiple drawings of cross sections, too, the drawings I was trying to create, weren't going to be enough for someone who built things from scratch, to be able to make a 3D physical replica of that fictional space craft. My point is that it took me one more full year, as I recall it now, to get to the point where I had "stumbled through" some different ways to figure out how to do what needed to be done, next. But every craft I built a model of, from that point in time, always had OODLES of cross-sectional drawings included. It took me a long time to get to the point where I appreciated how much those added to a set of drawings. He kindly answered any of my questions -- BUT -- I had to basically prove that I had tried, first. I had to be able to show him "this is what I tried, and these are the results I ended up with". And THEN he was more than kind with his time, in answering my "Now what?" questions.
For a person who is offering to teach things, time management is critical. Energy, too. Guys like me were picking his brains, as it were -- and learned a great deal, because of it. Other guys were mocking him, and saying that he was too verbose; that David was assuming his readers were all far too stupid to understand anything he was offering -- and stuff like that. Now, it appears he's being told that he's not being verbose enough. There is no happy medium, other than what he's already offered. I still look back on that year of sort of "guided self-training," in regards to cross sections and their worth, as one of the most fruitful periods of study I had ever engaged in.
One of the periods where I tried something new (new-to-me, that is) and "stumbled through it, pretty well" was in regards to a Renshape type of propeller blade, for a steampunk naval vessel. When David saw pics of what I'd done, he asked me where I'd learned to do that. I told him, "I learned it from you. I gathered up every old Cabal Report I could find, or any other online lesson where you offered pics and words about how to create those twisting, head-exploding shapes, and I just kept re-re-reading them, till I thought I sort-of kind-of understood what was going on. I went out into the garage, with some pattern maker's material, and I tried it. And with some few patient attempts at translating theory into hands-on instruction, I finally got a result that I liked."
Just one person's two cents / dos centavos. I'm saying this in what I hope is understood to be a helpful set of intentions. Too many people seem to want to download decades of instruction, into their heads, instantly. As I see it: real life (and the human brain) doesn't work that way. A few decades ago, David was catching abuse for being, allegedly, too verbose; and including too many pictures / pages worth of info. Some of us learned good stuff, back then, and actually wanted MORE pages of info. So I was thrilled when I found this place, a few months ago.
Don't be upset with the pace of your personal progress, as long as some is being made. As a buddy of mine used to say, "Rome wasn't built in a day. It wasn't sacked in a day, either".
How about if I offer this, as an idea of (perhaps, with David's permission) to get you a bit closer to what I believe you're hoping to obtain ... assuming David is okay with this idea, and assuming that I actually have picture-posting privileges, over here (I'm still pretty new to these forums, after all) ... I could offer to scan in some of the "balanced" articles he did, that were in print, in various cool old publications that I have copies of. And what I don't upload (because I don't have copies of certain things) perhaps other folks here could scan in, and upload for the group to see. It would still be various portions of David's body of work, of course. But I doubt any of us have seen all of it. I know I have not. That way, guys like you get to see some more of "the good stuff". And from the point of view of an "archivist," at least some of it is being "preserved" (in a sense) via carefully scanning it in, and uploading it.I take note of your opinion and maintain mine . I strongly disagree with your statement that "There is no happy medium". I have only seen a small fraction of David's oeuvre over the decades, so I am unaware of the large majority of the documentatry output he's already offered, and as a result it may well be the case that there was a point in time where the balance between text and illustrations he used to explain his approach would have been optimal in my view, but a pictureless wall of words (like the one you produced above ) is clearly one extreme, while simply posting a set of sequential progress photographs without any explanations at all is the other. Based on your message to David I downloaded his Nautilus Drydocks files, and I would much prefer a return to that format that includes written explanations and references to techniques, processes, materials, tools, parts, and products, but I realize that beggars and freeloaders can't be choosers, so I'll take what I can get .
Heehee. More like "routinely reverenced" ... but I'm glad you enjoyed seeing those words.Thank, Ward, made my day. Nice to know the work is occasionally referenced.
David
If it's OK with this forums Administrator and Moderators... shit yeah! It's OK with me. I'm flattered, Ward. You keeper-of-the-flame, you.How about if I offer this, as an idea of (perhaps, with David's permission) to get you a bit closer to what I believe you're hoping to obtain ... assuming David is okay with this idea, and assuming that I actually have picture-posting privileges, over here (I'm still pretty new to these forums, after all) ... I could offer to scan in some of the "balanced" articles he did, that were in print, in various cool old publications that I have copies of. And what I don't upload (because I don't have copies of certain things) perhaps other folks here could scan in, and upload for the group to see. It would still be various portions of David's body of work, of course. But I doubt any of us have seen all of it. I know I have not. That way, guys like you get to see some more of "the good stuff". And from the point of view of an "archivist," at least some of it is being "preserved" (in a sense) via carefully scanning it in, and uploading it.
I would add this: just having a "list" of what David did, in print, at one point or another, would be of great benefit to some of his interested fans. So even "just" that much, would help some of us.
What sayest thou, oh mighty one?
Would folks here be stepping on your toes, if we did any of this? Or if we did something like it? Are there any things we would not know about, that would make doing this stuff a "no-no"?
Awesomeness! Bwaahaha! Thank you kindly, generous sir, for being okay with this sort of thing!If it's OK with this forums Administrator and Moderators... shit yeah! It's OK with me. I'm flattered, Ward. You keeper-of-the-flame, you.
David
Good Luck!Anyway, I'm hoping that I can relay a message to the publishers of that Late Great magazine, through their editor (which I still stay in pretty regular contact with) ... so, hopefully, I can get official permission from those folks, to scan in David's 1990s article, and post them here.
Thanks! And I just did that, a bit ago. So it's "in the works," as far as asking for permission ... I sent a screen-grab with the request, so that they can see that David's okay with this stuff happening.Good Luck!