Me 262 - Projects, Pre-Projects And Variants

[Tophe]

* I read (without picture) in “Le Fana de l’Aviation HS#42”, translating “Messerschmitt Geheimprojekte”:
“At the end of 1938, beginning of 1939, at Messerschmitt in Augsboug, were designed the first lines of project P1065 that would lead to the Me262. At first, there was a single tubojet. Wanting to avoid the long ait intake of the He178, engineers imagined a twin-boom aircraft like the future De Havilland “Vampire”, and another layout like the future P1095."
* At http://www.saunalahti.fi/tvakkama/Me262.HTM I read that : “The Messershmitt AG began with concept designated Project P.1065, following these studies, in 1 April 1939. This proposal had virtually same wing as early Bf 109 and it was to be powered two BMW TL turbojet. ”
* Following other Web sources I drew several years ago a provisional drawing of P.1062(?) that would be the twin-boom forerunner to the 1065/Me-262.
Does someone have a true picture of the twin-boom Messerschmitt 1939 jet design?

 

[richard]

If I believe "Willy Messerschmitt- Pionier der Luftfahrt und des Leichtbaues" Bernard&Graefe Verlag ,P 1062 was the project number for the later built Me 261...

 

[Tophe]

If I believe "Willy Messerschmitt- Pionier der Luftfahrt und des Leichtbaues" Bernard&Graefe Verlag ,P 1062 was the project number for the later built Me 261...

According to http://www.wehrmacht-history.com/manufacturers/messerschmitt-aircraft-manufacturer.htm this is the P.1064... I don't know.

 

[JFC Fuller]

Several sources mention a second Me-262B-2a prototype that was fitted with the FuG 240 Berlin N-1a centimetric radar in a blunt nose cone, I assume that the nose cone would have looked very similar to the wooden one found on the Ju-88G-6. It is noted in a number of books that this variant was built in prototype form and was ready for flight testing at the end of the war. Has anybody seen any line drawings or photos of this aircraft? Did it actually exist or is it a myth?

 

[sagallacci]

There are any number of paper '262B2 variants, several with some version of a round nose/dish radar, The big Smith and Creek series as well as any number of other references have published some versions. Sources suggest at least one 'B2 may have been all but done at the end of the war, but no one has any confirmation as to it's configuration. If I were doing one, fitting it with the radome would make a lot of sense, though the 'B1a/U1 style installation would also be right there too.

 

[Spottydog4477]

Me 262 C-2b

A RARE CLIP of static test of the 718 engine!
Single prototype [made from Me 262A Werknummer 170 074] of rocket-boosted interceptor (Heimatschützer II) with two BMW 003R "combined" power plants (BMW 003 jet, with a single 1000 kg thrust BMW 718 rocket engine mounted atop the rear of each jet exhaust) for boosted thrust, only flown once with combined jet/rocket power on 26 March 1945


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36jWBZ7Dczg

 

[Stargazer]

A variant of the Me 262 with additional Lorin ramjets:

 

[Jemiba]

In "Me 262" by Willy Radinger and Walter Schick two facsimiles of original drawings are included,
one showing an early version, still with tail wheel landing gear and powered by either BMW 3304 or
Jumo TL engines, mounted similar to the Gloster Meteor.
The other drawing already shows an nose wheel, but attached to the rear, instead of the front of the wheel
well.

 

[Jemiba]

Out of curiosity: Does anyone know the approximate position of the single Mk-108 retained in some A1a/u3?

Wow, nearly 4 years ago ! Maybe it's still interesting nevertheless ?
This photo is from the aforementioned book, too ("Me 262" by Willy Radinger and Walter Schick) and shows
the position of the gun quite good.

 

[Jemiba]

In W.Radinger/W.Schick "Me 262" pre-projects, that later led to the Me 262. The first designs actually
were for single engined aircraft, similar to the de Havilland Vampire ( as drawn by Tophe) and to the
Saab J-29. No designations or project numbers mentioned. What actually became the Me 262 started
live as the P.65 in 1939.
(title of the thread changed to include other designs, than twin booms )

 

[hesham]

Hi,


here is the two P.1065 proposals (mid-wing & low-wing),which led to develop
the Me-262.


Source; Messerschmitt Me 262 Sturmvogel,by Dennis R. Jenkins.

 

[Jemiba]

From "Flugzeug Classic Special" issue 11, an internal of the Me 262 Schnellbomber II and the
nightfighter variant based on the HG III, with He S 011 engines in the wing roots.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


a strange modified to Messerschmitt Me.262.

 

[Jemiba]

Principally a conversion similar to the P-38J Droop Snoot. Both were fitted with a bombardiers stations
and a bombsight.

 

[hesham]

That's right my dear Jemiba,very close.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


and here is from Monografie, Me 262 Schwalbe,a some drawings to Messerschmitt
Me 262 early design and some variants.

 

[hesham]

And;

 

[Michel Van]

Another hare-brained idea of Hitler for a Bomber destroyer version:

the Me 262 A-1a/U4 aka "Pulkzerstörer"
with 50 mm autocannon either MK 214 or BK 5 cannon
one test aircraft build

 

[Jemiba]

Sources differ with regards to the number of aircraft modified from one to four.

 

[Michel Van]

Sources differ with regards to the number of aircraft modified from one to four.

yes, according the book "ME 262 Volume 2" by J. Richard Smith and Eddie J. Creek.
there certainly two Me 262 A-1a/U4 build, they give photographic proof
one found by hat US troops was almost complete Me 262 A-1a/U4 W.Nr.170083, had to test the MK214 V2
the other was the Me 262 A-1a/U4 W.Nr.111899 with BK 5 cannon

for some bizarre reason the US troops start to repaint the W.Nr.170083, until it look like this for picture.

After that it was repaint again with Nazi logos for picture
The photos take give the wrong impression there more than two Me 262 A-1a/U4

 

[hesham]

Very cool my dear Michel.

 

[Jemiba]

I think, it was in "Me 262" by Willy Radinger and Walter Schick where I read, that one Me 262 was equipped
with a BK 5 and another with the Mk 214. The first one may have later been changed to carrying the Mk 214,
if it really was flown, or just tested on the ground is not sure, at the end of the war it was blown up. The other,
as proven, was captured by the US.
Will look up, when I'm at home again. But the heavy gun armament was given high priority, so more than just
one prototype seems not absolutely unplausible, I think.

 

[Michel Van]

But the heavy gun armament was given high priority, so more than just, one prototype seems not absolutely unplausible, I think.

If was Hitler who gave personally the High priority, about that Reichsmarshal Göring was not fill with enthusiasm

Back to a question about the A-2a/U2(V555) bomber version (also label V11)
according the book "ME 262 Volume 2" by J. Richard Smith and Eddie J. Creek.
this craft had be armed with two MK 108, but the normal placed to install, got the Lofte cockpit for bomber man
so can it be that this two sensors Antennas on V555 are to replace by Barrels of MK 108 ?

 

[Jemiba]

Judging the volume a Mk 108 needed (as can be seen on the attached drawing from
http://www.stormbirds.com/warbirds/images_variants/me262A-1aU1_photo4.jpg), I
somewhat doubt, that enough space would have been left for the bomb aimer.

 

[Michel Van]

Judging the volume a Mk 108 needed (as can be seen on the attached drawing from
http://www.stormbirds.com/warbirds/images_variants/me262A-1aU1_photo4.jpg), I
somewhat doubt, that enough space would have been left for the bomb aimer.

Me too, even the sensor are 20 cm lower position compare to A-2a out side Mk 108 guns,
but that left almost no space to Bomb aimer, even if type error and it's MK 103 gun (unlikely) same problem.
The Aimer are stuck between the machine canons and there ammo belts
Still the question if A-2a/U2 had two MK 108, were to put them ?

 

[hesham]

Hi,


here is the P.1065 early sketch,wind tunnel Model,P.1065 drawing and Me.262
Schnellbomber.


Flugzeug Classic 07-08/2002

 

[Stargazer]

This thing looks like it could be built in plastic with a 1:32 scale Me 262 and the nose of a 1:72 Arado Ar 234!

 

[GTX]

This thing looks like it could be built in plastic with a 1:32 scale Me 262 and the nose of a 1:72 Arado Ar 234!

There's actually a couple of kits of exactly that version without the need for kit bashing.

 

[hesham]

This displaying is not to confirm anything,


but to ask,is this Messerschmitt Me.262T shipboard variant real or fake ?.


Flugzeug Classic 6/2002

 

[Jemiba]

...is this Messerschmitt Me.262T shipboard variant real or fake ?

Fake ! Especially German What-If fans seem love the aircraft carrier theme !
When the Me 262 was eventually brought into service, there was no chance and no real interest
anymore to built a carrier, not to mention, that it quite probably would have been unsuitable.

 

[GTX]

Besides, IIRC the ME262 was known to have a week landing gear (nose I believe), so trying your luck on a carrier might have been asking for trouble.

 

[Jemiba]

Indeed, but I think, this problem was adressed by the guy, who built the model (which I saw earlier
in a publication, I think). If you have a closer look at the photos, at least the nose wheel is modified
and so certainly "beefed up" !

BTW, the caption already say "faked" and April Fool"

 

[GTX]

It is a nicely done model though.

 

[Stargazer]

It is a nicely done model though.

I concur! Very nice fake project and build.

 

[Avimimus]

Nice work. He should add a rocket booster - as the aircraft could never gain the acceleration for an unaided carrier takeoff. But yes - totally fictional.

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dears,


and you can transfer it to a suitable section,up to you,and here is its paragraph.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


anther drawing to Messerschmitt Me.262 V.1.

 

[robunos]

I've often wondered how the Me262 airframe would have performed with a reciprocating engine... B)

cheers,
Robin.

 

[Jemiba]

Got a copy of Hugh Morgans "Me 262 Sturmvogel/Schwalbe" with facimiles of orignal
drawings of the Me 262 night fighter proposals. The B2a versions is called "Behelfsnacht-
jäger, jetziger Zustand" (makeshift nightfighter, current status), picture Me262 NJ-1. The
following versions were captioned as "I. Projekt" (1. project) to "V.Projekt" (5. project) and
differed in the radar/antenna installation, but obviouslous all were still regarded as makeshift
nightfighters only.

 

[hesham]

Amazing projects my dear Jemiba.