Luftwaffe: Secret Wings of the Third Reich

[twarren57]

Thanks again to steelpillow for pointing me in the right direction (Reply #36). Just ordered it directly from the source, Mortons Media Group Ltd.

 

[Wurger]

I keep finding other rather interesting stuff in "Luftwaffe Secret Wings"... Some may know about the "Heckenrose" project, equipping aircraft with aft looking guns triggered by EG3 "Elfe", "Gnom" or "Opta-Visier" automatic fire control. For the first time I have graphical evidence of the aiming part ( actually range determination ) of the system, e.g. in pages 86, 87 and 88 ( Arado night and all-weather fighters jet projects), with traversable rear gun mounts, and pages 90 and 91 with the Heinkel P1079, sporting a pair of fixed MG151. These projects show a small parabolic reflector, certainly an iteration of the "Pauke" family.

 

[gatoraptor]

Mortons' earlier publication "Allied Fighters" just showed up at the Barnes & Nobles in Atlanta. Maybe this one will show up if we wait long enough.

 

[athpilot]

Look what came from Mortons Media! Absolutely great!! This bookazines provide really new informations - as other stated here. Some german researchers claim to have found new informations on this topic, but if you look deeper, its not that much: mostly only drawings or so. But Dan Sharps research showed that there is so much lo learn. He gives not only new technical informations but also in the design-history and general history of secret projects. Thanks a lot! Especially interesting for me are the Lippisch projects. Even with unknown pics of the wooden mock-up of the Delta VI in vienna. And all illustrated with great color profiles. I even would have payed the double price for it!
Please keep this series going on! Can we have a little hint what will be next?

Greetings

 

[newsdeskdan]

Look what came from Mortons Media! Absolutely great!! This bookazines provide really new informations - as other stated here. Some german researchers claim to have found new informations on this topic, but if you look deeper, its not that much: mostly only drawings or so. But Dan Sharps research showed that there is so much lo learn. He gives not only new technical informations but also in the design-history and general history of secret projects. Thanks a lot! Especially interesting for me are the Lippisch projects. Even with unknown pics of the wooden mock-up of the Delta VI in vienna. And all illustrated with great color profiles. I even would have payed the double price for it!
Please keep this series going on! Can we have a little hint what will be next?

Greetings

Glad you enjoyed them. I can't really hint at what will be next - too far off in the future - but hopefully there will be at least one more 'Luftwaffe: Secret' bookazine.

 

[Wurger]

I`m happy to know that more "Luftwaffe..." are on the pipe. Dan, Please consider using your recently found documents on Focke-Wulf, Arado and Henschel. I believe prop driven aircraft, reciprocating engines and armament schemes are subjects you could explore... Keep on the excelent work!

 

[athpilot]

Great to hear. Thanks!

 

[steelpillow]

Personally, I would love to see Luftwaffe: Secret Stukas of the Third Reich. The Ju 87 Stuka was a pre-war design, but its replacement never really happened and various unsuitable fighters such as the FW 190 and Me 262 were crushed into the role instead. (BTW, "stuka" is just the German term for a dive bomber and ground attack aircraft, it was not specific to the Ju 87). Blohm & Voss certainly created an extraordinary family of designs from prop, through hybrid prop+jet to pure jet, many of them asymmetrical and one such personally endorsed by Hitler, and I am sure that other design offices must have followed similar paths. So there are both the politico-military machinations and the design trail to weave together. But then, I am heavily into Blohm & Voss at the moment, so don't take me too seriously. What I mean is, if you don't want to do stukas then Luftwaffe: Secret Flying Boats of the Third Reich would do me just fine too. ;D

 

[Zizi6785]

Luftwaffe: Secret Rocket Fighter of the Third Reich?

Dan, are you planning to publish the three (our four) issues in one book?

 

[athpilot]

I would like to see "Secret Rockets of the Third Reich". This could include rocket planes as well as rockets; e.g. the Peenemünde-Series EMW (especially the EMW A-6 rocket plane) and the Sänger Bird. I know Peenemünde (Ost) was not the Luftwaffe but the Heer... But in Peenemünde West the Luftwaffe tested their aa-rockets. These would be great too.
Other interesting things would be german cargo- and transport planes or helicopters and vtol.

 

[newsdeskdan]

Great ideas - thanks! Prop fighters is a huge subject and would be worth doing at some point. Ground attack would be interesting. B&V did produce a lot of designs in that area, as mentioned, and the P 194 and P 204 seem to have been particularly highly regarded, the latter being in competition with the Do 335. Flying boats might be possible but I haven't done much work in that area to date. Rockets and rocket fighters would involve some unavoidable overlap with both Secret Jets and Secret Wings - not sure whether that would be acceptable to people. I like transports but I'm not sure how many other people would, and Steve Coates' research on helicopters/VTOL would be very hard to match.
I could turn the material from Secret Jets and Secret Bombers into a new book or books if someone was interested in publishing it/them. But I don't know anyone who is.

 

[steelpillow]

How about Secret Air Weapons of the Third Reich? No manned rocket planes but plenty of missiles, glide bombs, glide torpedoes and the like. A great deal of systems development was done, but few made it into production and myths are, ahem, not unknown.

I could turn the material from Secret Jets and Secret Bombers into a new book or books if someone was interested in publishing it/them. But I don't know anyone who is.

Have you considered POD (print-on-demand) self-publishing? Copies can be ordered online or through most bookshops, even stocked by the specialists. Not as cheap as bookazines, for example Lulu charge around £40 for a one-off 240-page A4 paperback in full colour (equivalent to two bookazines). This drops below £8 for black-and-white, discounts for volume orders. Then you add your royalties to that. If Mortons were willing, an A4 edition might be able to re-use their layout.
Alternatively, reset with the smaller images enlarged, more generous and readable page layout but slightly smaller page size overall, they could make an excellent book each at say £25 plus royalties.
I'd be happy to publish them under my own steelpillow imprint, but I'd want my slice on top of Lulu's to compensate for the necessary fiddling, including preliminary pages and an index. So that probably rules me out, sigh.

 

[athpilot]

How about Secret Air Weapons of the Third Reich? No manned rocket planes but plenty of missiles, glide bombs, glide torpedoes and the like. A great deal of systems development was done, but few made it into production and myths are, ahem, not unknown.

Thats another great idea. The old work of Fritz Hahn "Geheimwaffen: Flugzeugbewaffnungen" (Secret Weapons: Airplane Weapons) from the 1960s needs to be continued, extended and updated. This would be a great job.

 

[Richard N]

And you can buy in PDF form (which saves on delivery costs) if you are that way inclined

Paul,

Do you have a source for the PDF version or was this speculation on your part?

I subscribe to several English digital edition magazines and all are presented in proprietary readers that prevent downloading or saving of content. I have not seen a digital edition of Luftwaffe: Secret Wings of the Third Reich or I would have already have bought it. I have ordered a physical copy from Mortons and am impatiently waiting for it to cross the Pond to Texas. Note that Amazon says "Out of Print" when they don't have something yet so that they have a placeholder to keep a customer on the hook for when something becomes available.

Richard

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

And you can buy in PDF form (which saves on delivery costs) if you are that way inclined

Paul,

Do you have a source for the PDF version or was this speculation on your part?

I subscribe to several English digital edition magazines and all are presented in proprietary readers that prevent downloading or saving of content. I have not seen a digital edition of Luftwaffe: Secret Wings of the Third Reich or I would have already have bought it. I have ordered a physical copy from Mortons and am impatiently waiting for it to cross the Pond to Texas. Note that Amazon says "Out of Print" when they don't have something yet so that they have a placeholder to keep a customer on the hook for when something becomes available.

Richard

I bought a previous Mortons publication in electronic format - will try to find out where/what. I didn't want to pay postage....

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

I bought the first one from Classic magazines which then downloaded via Pocketmags to the offline reader. PM with more details sent.

 

[hesham]

Great book my dear Dan.

 

[newsdeskdan]

I bought the first one from Classic magazines which then downloaded via Pocketmags to the offline reader. PM with more details sent.

Pocketmags' own search box doesn't seem to turn it up but I'm told it is there somewhere. While I'm on, does anyone recognise this (attached)? It appears to be a test vehicle for either a high-intensity air-dropped flare or a retro-rocket. There is another (tiny) view of it on p3 of Luftwaffe: Secret Wings.

 

[Richard N]

The digital edition of "Luftwaffe: Secret Wings of the Third Reich" is finally available here: https://pocketmags.com/us/aviation-classics-magazine

It is listed under "Aviation Classic Magazine". Pocketmags' search engine could not find its ass with both hands and does not recognize "Luftwaffe: Secret Wings of the Third Reich".

The just available "RAF: Secret Jets of Cold War Britain" is also there under Aviation Classics. This title is also stealthy to the search engine.

Some here don't appreciate digital delivery of magazines, but I've just bought and paid for these digital issues in a couple of minutes and have access to them now. The physical issue of Luftwaffe Secret Wings I ordered weeks ago is still apparently on a slow boat to Texas.

 

[Zizi6785]

The physical issue of Luftwaffe Secret Wings I ordered weeks ago is still apparently on a slow boat to Texas.

Mine is on the way for 3 weeks to Hungary

 

[Zizi6785]

Just arrived!

 

[Zizi6785]

Very good job again, Dan! Congratulations!

Some remarks:
Some original drawings are very small, eg. P 208.01-01 on page 69.
Op page 94-95, Arado E 555-7 in the middle of the page, it is not visible
Arado Schlechtwetter und Nachtjäger drawings are very interesting, once we get all the color drawings from Mr. Uhr. ;D (Anyhow, color profiles are very good, I'm sorry that there are not all of the types in this book.)
Interesting, in the Fighter Jet bookazine Dan wrote about Blohm & Voss Ae 607 in the Unknown chapter, in this book published an original factory drawing! Excellent research work!

Maybe, and I hope so: Justo (or someone else) redraw the unpublished drawings. (If not, then I will ;D)

 

[Geist]

Very good job again, Dan! Congratulations!

Some remarks:
Some original drawings are very small, eg. P 208.01-01 on page 69.
Op page 94-95, Arado E 555-7 in the middle of the page, it is not visible
Arado Schlechtwetter und Nachtjäger drawings are very interesting, once we get all the color drawings from Mr. Uhr. ;D (Anyhow, color profiles are very good, I'm sorry that there are not all of the types in this book.)
Interesting, in the Fighter Jet bookazine Dan wrote about Blohm & Voss Ae 607 in the Unknown chapter, in this book published an original factory drawing! Excellent research work!

Maybe, and I hope so: Justo (or someone else) redraw the unpublished drawings. (If not, then I will ;D)

Thank you very much for the comment
Certainly there are interesting projects that could be done, maybe I'm going to do some or at least redo some profiles but this time in action.

 

[newsdeskdan]

Very good job again, Dan! Congratulations!

Some remarks:
Some original drawings are very small, eg. P 208.01-01 on page 69.
Op page 94-95, Arado E 555-7 in the middle of the page, it is not visible
Arado Schlechtwetter und Nachtjäger drawings are very interesting, once we get all the color drawings from Mr. Uhr. ;D (Anyhow, color profiles are very good, I'm sorry that there are not all of the types in this book.)
Interesting, in the Fighter Jet bookazine Dan wrote about Blohm & Voss Ae 607 in the Unknown chapter, in this book published an original factory drawing! Excellent research work!

Maybe, and I hope so: Justo (or someone else) redraw the unpublished drawings. (If not, then I will ;D)

 

[Zizi6785]

Thanks Dan, you are a gentleman!

Is there a bigger version from P 208.03-01 with wing root intakes? I've just noticed this, one of the most interesting new material for me!

 

[newsdeskdan]

Thanks Dan, you are a gentleman!

Is there a bigger version from P 208.03-01 with wing root intakes? I've just noticed this, one of the most interesting new material for me!

I think you mean the p 208.03-02.

 

[Zizi6785]

Of course 208.03-02, thank you very much. You spoil me. ;D

 

[Pasoleati]

I got my copy last week at a local (Kuopio, Finland) supermarket newsstand. 12.90 euros.

 

[CJGibson]

I got my copy last week at a local (Kuopio, Finland) supermarket newsstand. 12.90 euros.

And...?

 

[elmayerle]

My local Barnes & Noble surprised me, after not carrying your first two "Luftwaffe" books, they carried this one. Even though I've purchased one direct from the publisher, I bought another copy just to encourage them (even managed to sell another patron on buying a copy).

Beautiful book, I've just dipped into it a bit so far, but it appears to be a fascinating and very well researched read.

 

[newsdeskdan]

My local Barnes & Noble surprised me, after not carrying your first two "Luftwaffe" books, they carried this one. Even though I've purchased one direct from the publisher, I bought another copy just to encourage them (even managed to sell another patron on buying a copy).

Beautiful book, I've just dipped into it a bit so far, but it appears to be a fascinating and very well researched read.

Thanks! I'm glad B&N is stocking this one. Hopefully, if it does okay, they will look more favourably on future titles too.

 

[Zizi6785]

I modified Jean-Marie Guillou's great P.208.03 to P.208.03-02. (Sorry for this!)

 

[Pasoleati]

I got my copy last week at a local (Kuopio, Finland) supermarket newsstand. 12.90 euros.

And...?

The point being that this one is available even here (Kuopio isn't a big city) while apparently the availability in the U. S. appears to be sketchy.

 

[newsdeskdan]

I modified Jean-Marie Guillou's great P.208.03 to P.208.03-02. (Sorry for this!)

Modified original or not, that's the first time the P 208.03-02 has ever been depicted in profile art.

 

[gatoraptor]

After not finding the publication in five Barnes & Noble stores in the Atlanta area, I took advantage of a holiday trip to Pennsylvania. The Barnes & Nobles in Lancaster and Reading didn't have it either, but I hit paydirt in the Devon store, just west of King of Prussia, which had a dozen copies!

So if you're in southeast Pennsylvania and can't find the publication in bookstores, head to Devon!

 

[Zizi6785]

Dan!

Many drawings of BV P.212.03 shows additional vertical surfaces. (See attachments.) Is there any official drawing which demonstrate this?

 

[Justo Miranda]

Original Justo Miranda drawing and "sources"

 

[Zizi6785]

Thanks, Justo!

The first is a very good drawing as usual
Is the second original drawing? Are you sure?
The third is one of the P.212.02 variant.

 

[newsdeskdan]

I'm prepared to stand corrected, but Justo's drawing appears to me to be a badly photocopied chopped up version of what appears in Luftfahrt International No. 5 Sept-Oct 1974 p721-723 (clean unedited version appended). The list of sources presented in that magazine is impressive and while I wouldn't want to dismiss something like that out of hand, it's plain from the little signature on those drawings (close-up of sig also appended) that they are at least re-draws rather than straight reproductions of the originals.
Are they direct re-draws of centre-finned originals? It's possible. While Karl R Pawlas (editor of Luftfahrt International) made his name putting out straight reproductions of original documents, he also published the almost certainly spurious Messerschmitt 'animal names' designs, which subsequently tainted many later German projects books. The first drawings shown in Luftfahrt International No. 5 (p721) don't have a central fin. And it's possible that the upper curved shape in the cutaways on p722 actually represents the location of the wingtip fins - but it might represent a central fin. If it does, it appeared in currently unknown B&V drawings made some time after the P 212 had come joint third in the 1-TL-Jager competition on Feb 27-28, 1945.
Until genuine drawings appear, it's impossible to be certain. But we do know that the design presented on February 27-28 (P 212.03-01) had no fin.

 

[Zizi6785]

In Ingolf Meyer - Luftwaffe advanced aircraft project to 1945 v.1 there are two versions.

P.212.03 Color images with two fins, 3view vith only upper fin
P.212.04 (?) no fins, but different shape