Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor

[Josh_TN]

I've never even seen them pictured with external launchers; just drop tanks. If you have a link, could you post?

 

[AN/AWW-14(V)]

I've never even seen them pictured with external launchers; just drop tanks. If you have a link, could you post?

 

[Josh_TN]

Thanks, never seen them carrying before.

 

[BDF]

Purely anecdotal but I've heard that the production jets don't have the wiring harness installed for external missile use. They can ferry them but not employ them externally. Just what I've heard...

 

[Archibald]

Makes some sense... external missiles on stealth aircraft are an heresy / blasphemy; only losers without large internal bays, use that trick (F-35 !)

Just kidding... !

 

[totoro]

Actually I believe f35 can't use AA missiles externaly either, except for outermost two pylons for sidewinder/asraam. While LM showed off the so called beast mode, such capability is as of yet unfunded and not enabled on production standard f35.

As for f22, I read one piece of hearsay where the amraams carried on the innermost pylon can't be fired. Don't know why only the innermost pylons were singled out. Perhaps outer pylons still retain the firing capability. Certainly those few photos of f22 with a couple extwrnal amraams don't look as if they are there only to be ferried around.

 

[aonestudio]

 

[sferrin]

I've never even seen them pictured with external launchers; just drop tanks. If you have a link, could you post?

Outside initial testing have they EVER been seen on the wings?

 

[BDF]

I can't recall ever seeing them with the outboard external pylons except in these two specific pictures. Are there any other pictures of them mounting the outboards?

 

[kitnut617]

I would like to see a photo if they were ever trialed with the drop tanks too --

Like this

 

[sferrin]

Have never seen drop tanks and external missiles at the same time. To my knowledge they've never flown with four tanks, even in testing.

 

[kitnut617]

Thanks sferrin, do you think that it is possible for the F-22 to carry four tanks. I notice that the tank pylons also have two missile launchers too.

 

[totoro]

So, no images of 4 tanks, no images of tanks and missiles at the same time and no images of more than two pylons for missiles, for up to four externally carried missiles. While not evidence, it certainly appears more Likely that serial standard f22 simply aren't enabled to haul big external loads.

 

[BDF]

I suspect testing was cut for budget reasons. So perhaps the capability is technically there but testing to clear their use was cut.

 

[Colonial-Marine]

I could have sworn I've seen images of F-22s with two tanks on the inner pylons and AMRAAMs on the outer two but I can't find them.

 

[rooster]

From Olsen v. Lockheed:

"The F-22 requires numerous different coatings to be applied to the skin of the aircraft. The initial requirements were for three layers of coating to be stacked together in the following order: The first coating is a primer designed to smooth and seal the surface of the skin and promote adhesion of the conductive coating. The second is a conductive coating consisting of silver flakes mixed with polyurethane materials and intended to conduct, dissipate, and reflect the RADAR waves away."

There are a couple of reasons the airplane's base coating is silver, including:

- Using a conductive surface below the RAM layer makes both the RAM and shaping more effective
- The F-22 OML has many different materials - composites, aluminum, titanium, etc. - all with different electrical properties. The conductive coating effectively homogenizes the electrical properties visible to radar across most of the OML and keeps radar from seeing scattering sources inside the aircraft

From "Lockheed Martin's Affordable Stealh":

"Conductive Surfaces
A common misunderstanding is that composite skins are used to make aircraft stealthy. In reality, many composites are partially transparent to radar, and expose the internal structure, wiring and components to the radar, which is the last thing a low observable designer wants. These components add up to an extremely large signature. In most Low Observable aircraft, the outer surfaces of the aircraft are coated with a metallic paint, so that the radar cannot pen- etrate into the aircraft"

Most US stealth aircrat use a highly conductive "base" layer.


What you are seeing here is the F-22 with the conductive silver layer applied, but the other layers not yet applied. All F-22s have the same silver layer but you rarely see it as it is covered by the other layers - RAM, IR coating, etc.

Its a oversimplified view that metals reflect radar waves. There is something called skin depth (which is very thin) for which at that depth the wave penetrates and loses energy exponentially... That's why i believe canopies are thinly gold coated. I don't have patience to give a physics lecture on wave mechanics and conductors. But this is why the raptor has a shiny silver coat under the grey paint. I would have loved to known the supplier was to buy their stock years ago. I never found out of it was also used on the b2. Needless to say you can't judge each aircrafts stealth by its shape. Its kind our amusing to listen to people argue about this plane being stealthier than that plane given all that goes into the recipe.

 

[aonestudio]

Incredible Images Of A Stripped-Down F-22 Raptor Being Rebuilt After A Belly Landing

The F-22 is set to return to service in early 2022, nearly four years after a botched takeoff.

www.thedrive.com

Crew chiefs rebuild F-22 after fiery crash

U.S. Air Force Tech. Sgt. Kevin Fitch, front, and Staff Sgt. Ethan Rentz, 3rd Aircraft Maintenance Unit F-22 crew chiefs, rebuild U.S. Air Force F-22 Raptor tail number AF-07-146, at Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson, Alaska, Nov. 29, 2021, after the aircraft was damaged in a crash in Nevada in...

www.dvidshub.net

 

[Jeb]

An aviation photographer I follow on Instagram has a place out in the Mojave Desert, I think, and it's an area that has lots of military aviation traffic. About a week ago he posted a photo or two in an Instagram story (so they're gone now) of a Raptor with something under the wings...they were pretty distant shots but they didn't look like fuel tanks based on position & profile.

So maybe there's still some capability there, and more interest now in testing to operational status.

 

[Raptor_101]

@ohwiss did have in his stories on Instagram of a Raptor with the outboard hardpoints installed flying over his place. No missiles were on the rails though.

 

[Jeb]

@ohwiss did have in his stories on Instagram of a Raptor with the outboard hardpoints installed flying over his place. No missiles were on the rails though.

Yep, that's who I was talking about. I thought it looked like there was something on the rails, but they were fuzzy, unless he posted improved pictures that I didn't see.

 

[BDF]

Found this the other day scrounging through Raptor cockpit information for a project:



I always wondered if they ever intended to have a on board boarding ladder for the Raptor as the F-23A General Arrangement plans that are public have them. Turns out they did. Source: KSU Faculty Web

 

[Marcellogo]

About external load: F-22 (and J-20) drop tanks are specially made: differently from usual ones their load pylons are integral to them.
So they are jettisoned together with them leaving just a clear surface behind. Obviously, doing such a thing is impossible with weapon's pylons.

 

[FighterJock]

Found this the other day scrounging through Raptor cockpit information for a project:

View attachment 670899

I always wondered if they ever intended to have a on board boarding ladder for the Raptor as the F-23A General Arrangement plans that are public have them. Turns out they did. Source: KSU Faculty Web

Here is a question concerning the F-22 boarding ladder, have they ever been used while in service or have the USAF not bothered with them and just used the external ladder? In all the photos that I have seen of the F-22 it is just the external ladder that you see.

 

[Jeb]

Found this the other day scrounging through Raptor cockpit information for a project:

View attachment 670899

I always wondered if they ever intended to have a on board boarding ladder for the Raptor as the F-23A General Arrangement plans that are public have them. Turns out they did. Source: KSU Faculty Web

Here is a question concerning the F-22 boarding ladder, have they ever been used while in service or have the USAF not bothered with them and just used the external ladder? In all the photos that I have seen of the F-22 it is just the external ladder that you see.

There isn't an internal ladder on the F-22.

 

[BDF]

Yeah, if you read the top of the graphic, they dropped the ladder because of complexity and weight. So no onboard ladder.

 

[FighterJock]

So why put an internal ladder onto the F-35 when there is not one on the F-22? It makes no sense at all.

 

[TomS]

So why put an internal ladder onto the F-35 when there is not one on the F-22? It makes no sense at all.

Flight deck operations. Naval aircraft almost always have a built-in ladder (if they need a ladder at all) to minimize the amount of equipment you have cluttering up the deck.

 

[FighterJock]

So why put an internal ladder onto the F-35 when there is not one on the F-22? It makes no sense at all.

Flight deck operations. Naval aircraft almost always have a built-in ladder (if they need a ladder at all) do minimize the amount of equipment you have cluttering up the deck.

So it is all down to the US Navy and Marine Corp that the F-35 has an internal ladder.

 

[BDF]

Well the F-15s have ladders. I suspect that the USAF desires ladders but it is something they can live without. I think part of the reason the ladder was ditched because the Raptor went through weight growth during EMD so it was a easy target to cut.

 

[Fluff]

Well the F-15s have ladders. I suspect that the USAF desires ladders but it is something they can live without. I think part of the reason the ladder was ditched because the Raptor went through weight growth during EMD so it was a easy target to cut.

Also fairly labour intensive, especially when you add in stealth, with the surface of the aircraft getting kicked etc. a seperate wheeled 'ladder' is way cheaper and easily fixable.

 

[rooster]

Yeah, if you read the top of the graphic, they dropped the ladder because of complexity and weight. So no onboard ladder.

I doubt it was either. Probably low hanging fruit in cost cutting. It would probably have cost 25 million dollars to development costs. Plus added maintenance costs. Besides the external ladders look bigger and safer and can be found at every airbase of every country in the world.

 

[Archibald]

So a good case could be make that with the F-22 USAF clearly shows a lack of ladder ship...

BADUUUM, TSSS !

 

[Jeb]

So why put an internal ladder onto the F-35 when there is not one on the F-22? It makes no sense at all.

Flight deck operations. Naval aircraft almost always have a built-in ladder (if they need a ladder at all) do minimize the amount of equipment you have cluttering up the deck.

So it is all down to the US Navy and Marine Corp that the F-35 has an internal ladder.

It's all down to USN and USMC that the F-35 has a lot of compromises.

 

[Firefinder]

So why put an internal ladder onto the F-35 when there is not one on the F-22? It makes no sense at all.

Flight deck operations. Naval aircraft almost always have a built-in ladder (if they need a ladder at all) do minimize the amount of equipment you have cluttering up the deck.

So it is all down to the US Navy and Marine Corp that the F-35 has an internal ladder.

It's all down to USN and USMC that the F-35 has a lot of compromises.

More like its because of the Air Force that the F35 has a lot of compromise.

The F35 started as a Marine program to replace the Harrier.

Thing is at the same time the Navy was starting a program to replace the F-18s and the Air Force was making some noises about a F16 replacement.

The Congress seeing that all three programs requirements was basically the same except for VSTOL for marines said: "You know what be a good idea?"

 

[sferrin]

So why put an internal ladder onto the F-35 when there is not one on the F-22? It makes no sense at all.

F-14, F-15, and F/A-18 all had them as well. The F-22 is the odd man out. (And the F-16 but where would they put one on that?)

 

[rooster]

So why put an internal ladder onto the F-35 when there is not one on the F-22? It makes no sense at all.

F-14, F-15, and F/A-18 all had them as well. The F-22 is the odd man out. (And the F-16 but where would they put one on that?)

The Navy needs them. Meh, the f15 is the odd man out. No usaf fighters had them before it. The f22 is back to business as usual.

 

[sferrin]

So why put an internal ladder onto the F-35 when there is not one on the F-22? It makes no sense at all.

F-14, F-15, and F/A-18 all had them as well. The F-22 is the odd man out. (And the F-16 but where would they put one on that?)

The Navy needs them. Meh, the f15 is the odd man out. No usaf fighters had them before it. The f22 is back to business as usual.

The Vigilante didn't have a ladder. Neither did the Skyhawk. The A-7 Corsair did as did the Crusader and F-4 Phantom. Basically, if the geometry allows it they put a ladder in. If it doesn't, they don't. They used to use starter carts too. They don't anymore if they can help it.

 

[icyplanetnhc (Steve)]

What Is Next For The U.S. Air Force F-22 Fleet | Aviation Week Network

The Air Force’s highest-end fighter faces early retirement; leaders say replacement needed to counter China

aviationweek.com

Much of the problems stem from the small fleet size, which affects the supply chain and parts availability as manufacturing sources diminish. The summary at the end of the article is as follows:

* Rising mishap numbers, falling mission-capable rates and flight hours trouble the USAF fleet, [with the F119 being one aspect singled out due to higher than expected usage rates]
* Officials say Next-Generation Air Dominance required to counter China
* Advocates want investment to sustain and modernize the fleet

 

[TomcatViP]

There might not be such thing more humiliating than pancaking on the tarmac while deplaning at the end of a mission!
I guess that's why Raptor pilots are emphasising their Stealth attributes.

 

[icyplanetnhc (Steve)]

The story of how TOPGUN integrated the F-22 Raptor flights into its syllabus - The Aviation Geek Club

The story of how Topgun integrated the F-22 Raptor flights into its syllabus

theaviationgeekclub.com