Lockheed Have Blue

[overscan (PaulMM)]

There were a few different ejection seats used on the Northrop F-5 - a Northrop (NORAIR) model on early ones, Martin-Baker Mk 10 on later ones, perhaps others? At a guess I'd say it would be a Martin-Baker.

 

[PaulSBrown]

I think you might have just led me to it, thanks PaulMM.

I found this photo on a review of a F-20 Tigershark kit and compared the two. Timeline is good as well.
What do you think?

 

[TomS]

Can anyone identify what this ejection seat is in the Have Blue? I know the literature says F-16 sidestick, F-5 ejection seat and landing gear. Thing is, to my eye this isn't an F-5 seat in the photo.

I'm trying to make the 1/48 Maintrack Models vac kit.

Cheers,
pb

Have Blue and the F-117 by Aronstein and Piccorrillo quotes Major John Twigg saying that they sourced the "side-stick, flight control computer, and seat" from the F-16. The F-5 contributed the landing gear but not the seat.

If that quote is right, the HAVE BLUE seat should be an ACES II. It's kinda hard to tell from your picture, though.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

That is a Stencel S-III-S ejection seat on your image, not Martin-Baker, but it does look rather like the seat in the Have Blue. The Stencel S-III-S was used on the F-16 FSD prototypes but replaced by an ACES II in production. S-III-S was also used on the YF-17 and F-20.

I think we have a winner. Its likely that the "side-stick, flight control computer, and seat" were sourced from FSD F-16, not production. This makes sense timingswise.

 

[TomS]

Yeah, that makes more sense. The picture is a much better match to the Stencel than ACES II.

 

[Whisperstream]

I thought it would be easy to identify the Have Blue ejection seat. Surely, it would be described in the literature (official or unofficial). No dice. I finally found a definitive image but, oddly, no data on the type/model. So far, I have been unable to find a picture online of this type of seat. Maybe someone will recognize it.

 

[TomS]

I thought it would be easy to identify the Have Blue ejection seat. Surely, it would be described in the literature (official or unofficial). No dice. I finally found a definitive image but, oddly, no data on the type/model. So far, I have been unable to find a picture online of this type of seat. Maybe someone will recognize it.
View attachment 636844

Looks like the SJU-4 version of that Stencel seat.

The Ejection Site: UPCo S-III-S

Everything you {n}ever wanted to know about Ejection Seats!!!

www.ejectionsite.com

 

[CiTrus90]

I think Overscan is spot on with his guess.

Some more pictures of a Stencel S-III-S found on the Ejection Site:




And lower assembly of the ejector seat as shown by Whisperstream is compatible with the shape of a S-III-S used on Luftwaffe's Alpha Jets:


Edit: also, colors and shape of the seat look extremely similar to the FSD F-16's one:

 

[flateric]

official DARPA'60 expo model

 

[Dynoman]

Ken Dyson (Have Blue test pilot) said in an interview with Robert Loschke on January 9, 2012 that the ejection seat he was riding on was a Stencel ejection seat. (Interview available at hdl.huntington.org)

 

[SOC]

After years of threatening to do so, I finally moved and am 30 minutes from Wright Patterson. On this weekend's visit I found this, allegedly an RCS model.

 

[Archibald]

Just asking in passing... no way the US military ever reveals where did they buried remains of the two Have Blues ? Even bits of them would belongs in a museum...

 

[stealthflanker]

After years of threatening to do so, I finally moved and am 30 minutes from Wright Patterson. On this weekend's visit I found this, allegedly an RCS model.View attachment 659748

I'm curious whether it's glass or metal plate at window . and it seems the inlet also sealed with similar material.

 

[SOC]

After years of threatening to do so, I finally moved and am 30 minutes from Wright Patterson. On this weekend's visit I found this, allegedly an RCS model.View attachment 659748

I'm curious whether it's glass or metal plate at window . and it seems the inlet also sealed with similar material.

I think it looked like glass if I remember right. I'll give this thing more attention next time I'm in there.

 

[Hobbes]

If those windows were glass, you'd be able to see the SR-71 through the cockpit windows.

 

[tacitblue1973]

Not my video this time but this has been on YouTube for a year now and I've missed it until it came up on an ATS thread.

View: https://youtu.be/AIaDrCDWHzo

 

[Dew]

From 80 Years of Lockheed Martin Skunk Works® Innovation



edit: just noticed same pic in @flateric's post 24, sorry. Link's still interesting tho

 

[fightingirish]

Here a screenshot from German version of the online shop Amazon, where you see a preview of the book "Dreamland: The Secret History of Area 51" by Peter W. Merlin.
I have never seen this picture showing Have Blue in a hangar at Skunk Works from this angle before.
Secondary sources at German Amazon.de or at British Amazon.co.uk:

Amazon.de

Amazon.co.uk

I haven't seen a preview of this book at US Amazon.com, so far.
Book: Dreamland: The Secret History of Area 51 by Peter W. Merlin, page 260

Dear mods, I kept the resolution of this attached picture as small as possible.
Please let me know, if due to forum rules, I should delate this attached picture.

 

[tacitblue1973]

Here a screenshot from German version of the online shop Amazon, where you see a preview of the book "Dreamland: The Secret History of Area 51" by Peter W. Merlin.
I have never seen this picture showing Have Blue in a hangar at Skunk Works from this angle before.
Secondary sources at German Amazon.de or at British Amazon.co.uk:

Amazon.de

Amazon.co.uk

I haven't seen a preview of this book at US Amazon.com, so far.
Book: Dreamland: The Secret History of Area 51 by Peter W. Merlin, page 260

Dear mods, I kept the resolution of this attached picture as small as possible.
Please let me know, if due to forum rules, I should delate this attached picture.

I thought that was a good one. It's the only one I've seen that actually shows the variable platypus flap of HB1002. The camouflage pic of ship one on the south ramp was very grainy and according to Peter Merlin, the platy was not exactly the same between the two.

 

[Q-nimbus]

Just asking in passing... no way the US military ever reveals where did they buried remains of the two Have Blues ? Even bits of them would belongs in a museum...

I don’t have a source, but I remember reading somewhere that at one point they started looking for them to dig them up and put them on display. However, while searching and digging they came across other classified airframes and were told to abandon the search…

 

[tacitblue1973]

I don’t have a source, but I remember reading somewhere that at one point they started looking for them to dig them up and put them on display. However, while searching and digging they came across other classified airframes and were told to abandon the search…

Heater Heatley said chunks of crashed Oxcart or YF-12 embedded in concrete started working their way back to the surface at one point. He had to be read into Have Blue because he saw it one day flying one of the Red Hat Fishbeds at Groom, he initially thought it was some kind of strange ground vehicle, they'd experimented with several paint schemes on it. Initially flat black, then camo, then shades of blue and grey on each facet finally ending with pale grey overall. He genuinely thought it shouldn't be able fly like most outsiders.

 

[kmrumble]

Interesting article by Jack Twigg, the Have Blue program manager, about the development of the VLO pylon for RATSCAT testing of XST/Have Blue and subsequent aircraft.