Lighter-than-air and hybrid airship concepts

[Jason Dykstra (Wyvern)]

Would would the benefits be of an airship in the modern world?

 

[Grey Havoc]

Less fuel (or none, depending on the concept & role) required, for one thing.

 

[Wka23]

it depends on what you want - persistence or speed and the weather window - similar to choppers according to one source.

 

[nuuumannn]

Would would the benefits be of an airship in the modern world?

The benefits would be point-to-point outsize and heavy load lifting capacity, and whatever other fanciful idea the military might suggest; the downsides however are far more numerous. The biggest of these is cost. Airships are not cheap, especially when you have to build the infrastructure to operate them from scratch. They are incompatible with existing airfields because of their low forward speed and sheer size. They need space to manoeuvre close to the ground, therefore, no structures around the fields and so forth. They also need shelter, which means a big hangar; best not to leave one out in the open.

The next issue is the lifting gas and its supply, any airship home base is going to need a source of lifting gas. During the Great War, airship bases had their own hydrogen processing plant, as well as access to main trunk railways for materials. Included is a picture of an RNAS airship station in Britain (East Fortune, Scotland). You can see the size of the hangars, the biggest is 700 feet long, the smaller ones for non-rigids was 350 ft long. The wind breaks were designed to deflect the wind, obviously, but were found to create eddies which disrupted manoeuvring the ships on the ground. To manoeuvre a big rigid in and out of a hangar, or 'Shed' to use the parlance of the day took around 400 people, which meant airship stations had large numbers of personnel billeted at them. These days the number wouldn't need to be so large. To the bottom right can be seen the hydrogen processing plant - there were lines that took the gas directly into the hangars so the ships could be topped up in situ.

To support the main patrol stations, of which there were several along Britain's east coast, there were out-stations that had no shelter and minimal facilities, some had wireless equipment, others were little more than empty fields surrounded by trees.

Regarding lifting gas, the subsequent disuse of hydrogen often gets misconstrued. The British operated around 200 non-rigids during the Great War for maritime patrol, although not at the same time, but their number at their peak in mid to late 1918 was around half that. The number lost due to hydrogen mishaps was a mere handful (need to check the books for accurate figures, which include airships that disintegrated in flight), although one incident resulted in a fire that destroyed a hangar at Howden in Yorkshire, nonetheless, the biggest issue with hydrogen was safety measures and quality control, which the British demonstrated and as a result had relatively few incidents.

The biggest killer of airships (rigid and non-rigid) from an operational perspective and not including being shot down, was adverse weather that led to structural compromise. Future airship operators need to ponder that.

So, the issue with operating airships these days is cost associated with establishing infrastructure and operation. Just building a workable one won't ensure a production tender.

 

[Jason Dykstra (Wyvern)]

Thanks!

 

[nuuumannn]

Thanks!

You're welcome

 

[Grey Havoc]

Via Slashdot:

Sergey Brin’s airship aims to use world’s biggest mobile hydrogen fuel cell | TechCrunch

Sergey Brin’s secretive airship company LTA Research and Exploration is planning to power a huge disaster relief airship with an equally record-breaking

techcrunch.com

 

[fortrena]

The "elliptical airship" proposed in 1929 by Charles Dennistoun Burney might be of interest.

Airshipsonline : Airships : Airlander 10

 

[Grey Havoc]

Is Sergey Brin Building the World's Biggest, Climate-Friendly Aircraft? - Slashdot

Google co-founder Sergey Brin is the ninth-richest person in the world — and he loves airships. Now new details have emerged about Brin's secretive airship company, LTA Research and Exploration (which stands for "Lighter Than Air"). SFGate reports: Although back in 2017 the word on the str...

tech.slashdot.org

 

[royabulgaf]

There area couple general aviation airports surrounding Chicago. They cover a lot of ground, most of it vacant grassland. When airships come to town, they set up at one of those sites with no problem. One unmentioned problem is wind shear, with low speed, little heft, and a lot of surface area.

 

[shin_getter]

Just taking a random shot at this:

Airships should not be aiming for the transport market. Instead it should be aiming for the yacht market.

There is great romance associated with airships that draws attempts year after year, it is a fitting target as a lifestyle vehicle. Travelling around in a van or a boat is sooooo lame, just imagine being the guy that shows up in an airship. There is work needed to find suitable customers and engineering to make the lifestyle fit those customers. (include working out regulations) The prototypical concept can be seen in the movie "Up".

Parts of my fringe logic is also telling me that it may be cheaper to live in a balloon than deal with real estate at times. Now just need someone to sort out the evtol rope jetpack commute.

 

[yasotay]

I have to agree that the way to mass market is through the purses of the shamelessly rich, who are indeed the trend setters. Like airplanes were the toys of the elite class (electric cars now). Over time the desires of the less rich and the desire to expand the market to make more LTA will cause the creep down to us common folk.

Biggest challenge I think, sadly remains with how to manage these large floating devices in the face of severe weather events that can still challenge their structural integrity, etc.

 

[Rhinocrates]

Vacuum airships are being seriously considered. Apparently with new materials and manufacturing techniques, they would be feasible.

The MIT paper outlines the engineering principles. Apparently a geodesic lattice 1/10 the radius would be adequate structure. 3-D printing could accomplish that (it was the vast number of components required and mid-20th century manufacturing technology that limited Barnes Wallis' geodetic system).

The New Scientist article is paywalled, unfortunately.

Evacuated Airship for Mars Missions - NASA

Description

www.nasa.gov

http://cba.mit.edu/docs/papers/19.01.vacuum.pdf

Could vacuum airships go from steampunk fantasy to 21st century skies?

First imagined in the 17th century, blimps borne aloft by nothing but nothing are finally ready for lift off, carrying goods and even passengers in gondolas in the clouds

www.newscientist.com

 

[Foo Fighter]

I have many times pondered on unmanned lighter than air craft performing the sub orbital satellite role. Possibly with a secondary role with catilytic converers to deal with certain atmospheric gasses at high altitude. Stick some solar panels on it and it might last months or years on station

 

[GTX]

The futuristic superyacht concept that can fly as well as sail | CNN

Rome-based design company Lazzarini Design Studio has dreamed up an innovative new concept named Air Yacht that has the ability to "sail in the sky" as well as the ocean, and it looks every bit as outlandish as it sounds.

edition.cnn.com

 

[Rhinocrates]

Apart from the absurd design...

"We are currently seeking investors and partners able to fund the project in order to speed up the process"

Ah, the usual red flag present and accounted for. Good.

 

[Sundog]

The futuristic superyacht concept that can fly as well as sail | CNN

Rome-based design company Lazzarini Design Studio has dreamed up an innovative new concept named Air Yacht that has the ability to "sail in the sky" as well as the ocean, and it looks every bit as outlandish as it sounds.

edition.cnn.com

When I first saw that, I kept thinking that should have been Tony Stark's house, after his main house was attacked.

 

[hesham]

From Aviation magazine 1973.

 

[Grey Havoc]

AGARD REPORT No.724; Missions and Vehicle Concepts for Modern, Propelled, Lighter-than-Air Vehicles (1985)

Updated link:

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA153278.pdf

 

[Grey Havoc]

A Canadian Forces College paper from 2013 that may be of some interest:
SOVEREIGNTY ASSERTION – AIRSHIPS FOR THE ARCTIC

 

[Grey Havoc]

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Heavy-lift-air-vehicles-Source-Ref-1-a-Piasecki-Heli-Stat-b-Helitruck-c_fig11_222528776

 

[Grey Havoc]

Regarding the Augur-RosAeroSystems Holding ATLANT mentioned earlier in the thread:

https://lynceans.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Augur-RosAeroSystems_R2-converted-compressed.pdf

In the early 2000s, RAS started developing the ATLANT (“aerostatic flying transport vehicle of a new type”) hybrid, variable buoyancy cargo airship, primarily for applications in the harsh environment of the Arctic. RAS also was developing other advanced unmanned airship designs for long-duration surveillance roles. In 2018, the Israeli firm Atlas LTA Advanced Technology, Ltd. acquired RosAeroSystems, its product lines and intellectual property. Atlas moved the corporate headquarters to Yavne, Israel, and maintained subsidiaries in Russia and US.

Atlas has stated that its business goals include enhancing the ATLANT variable buoyancy airship technology and commercializing ATLANT heavy lift airships. In addition, Atlas is developing its own product lines of smaller electric-powered airships and specialized airships and aerostats for other missions. The Atlas website is here: https://atlas-lta.com. The RosAeroSystems website is still online at the following link: http://rosaerosystems.com The website supports the current Au-12 and Au-30 product line.

 

[Nik]

The 'vacuum dirigible' thing: belated, but, IIRC, structural weight vs lift only 'breaks even' when sufficiently low pressure outside.
Such as Mars...
Although, now that mini-helos have been shown to work on Mars, there's a lot to be said for a hybrid...

FWIW, space & 'airships'...
IIRC, Venus is an excellent candidate for balloon-borne tech, there's a level where temperature / pressure / wind etc all comparatively benign.
And, IIRC, Saturn of all places, as there's an altitude where temperature, pressure and gravity fall within human-tolerant range. Okay, you'd need an air-mask beyond gondola, and get used to being soprano due H/He with everything, but otherwise basic sorta-SCUBA tech...

 

[Grey Havoc]

Vehicle Concepts and Technology Requirements for Buoyant Heavy-Lift Systems - NASA Technical Paper 1921 (September 1981)

 

[Grey Havoc]

A RAND study from 2005: High-Altitude Airships for the Future Force Army

Across the services, there is an increasing demand for overhead communications capacity. New, lighter-than-air (LTA) vehicles that operate at very high altitudes have an obvious attraction for planners of surveillance and communication missions; the ability to see to a more distant horizon results in greatly expanded surveillance volumes. This report informs the U.S. Army about the usefulness and limitations of high-altitude airships (HAA) in the role of platforms for communications and surveillance suites in theater battlespace. Potential alternatives are solar-powered HAA and airplanes flying at 65,000 feet or above that can remain geostationary for months. Potentially, HAA may provide communications satellite capabilities for the WIN-T network that are less expensive than satellites and may support a Global Hawk-like surveillance package in the Multi-Sensor Command and Control Constellation (MC2C). HAA performance issues include engine power, envelope strength, and permeability, solar-cell power, fuel-cell capacity, weather, launch and recovery, and air defense survivability.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Got the reference for the last post from this 2021 The Warzone (The Drive) article on the AeroSphere SA-60:

This Spherical Manned Airship Was Tested By The Navy As An Eye In The Sky

The AeroSphere was designed to be an optionally-manned high-altitude surveillance platform that could loiter for long periods above a target area.

www.thedrive.com

 

[carvalho2008]

Visualização: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNcKos0CBRs

https://projetosalternativosnavais.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/patrol-asw-asuw-hybrid-airship-coast-guard-n2.png?w=1200

COAST GUARD HYBRID AIRSHIP PATROL – DIRIGÍVEIS PARA A GUARDA COSTEIRA BRASILEIRA ………………………Ler mais >>>

A MB possui a característica de desempenhar tanto as funções de uma marinha de guerra, quanto a de guarda costeira. Isto em momento de crise, aguça e dilata o dilema do “que e onde investir&#…

projetosalternativosnavais.wordpress.com

 

[royabulgaf]

Would would the benefits be of an airship in the modern world?

To absorb the excess wealth of billionaires who think they are Jules Verne.

 

[Grey Havoc]

From August 2020:

These New Luxury Blimps Hope to Become the Superyachts of the Skies

Zeppelins are usually equated with the Hindenburg disaster, but today’s airships use modern materials and some aspire to be as luxurious as superyachts.

robbreport.com

 

[Prophet141]

I remember long (at least 25 years) ago seeing an issue of a magazine associated with the NOAA featuring a cover and interior diagram of a massive triangular multi-role(including aerial boat/aircraft/sounding rocket/weather balloon launch platform and flying astronomical observatory) airship based on the 'flying deltoid pumpkin seed' design scheme, but for the life of me I've been unable to find that magazine and its images again.

JP aerospace?

 

[Grey Havoc]

The futuristic superyacht concept that can fly as well as sail | CNN

Rome-based design company Lazzarini Design Studio has dreamed up an innovative new concept named Air Yacht that has the ability to "sail in the sky" as well as the ocean, and it looks every bit as outlandish as it sounds.

edition.cnn.com

Lazzarini reveals 150m airship-style superyacht concept powered by helium gas

Italian studio Lazzarini has unveiled a 150m flying superyacht concept powered by helium, named Air Yacht.

www.boatinternational.com

 

[Prophet141]

Following up on my post from Monday, here's a link to JP Aerospace's website. Expect Optimistic figures, and excuse the early noughties graphics.

Airship to Orbit

 

[Rhinocrates]

The futuristic superyacht concept that can fly as well as sail | CNN

Rome-based design company Lazzarini Design Studio has dreamed up an innovative new concept named Air Yacht that has the ability to "sail in the sky" as well as the ocean, and it looks every bit as outlandish as it sounds.

edition.cnn.com

Lazzarini reveals 150m airship-style superyacht concept powered by helium gas

Italian studio Lazzarini has unveiled a 150m flying superyacht concept powered by helium, named Air Yacht.

www.boatinternational.com

Did it occur to them that LTAs need to have space for helium cells? They also perpetrated this. Terry Prachett readers might be amused.

Lazzarini Reveals the Unconventional Pangeos Model: The World's Largest Floating City Ever Built - Arch2O.com

Lazzarini Design studio, based in Rome, has revealed the Pangeos, making it the most extensive floating city concept ever constructed in the form of a massive

www.arch2o.com

In Japan, the Shimizu corporation used to put out concepts for gigantic arcologies to attract young talent - and then put them to work designing bridges and other infrastructure, which is what the bulk of their work is. I think they crunched the numbers at least.

 

[jeffb]

The futuristic superyacht concept that can fly as well as sail | CNN

Rome-based design company Lazzarini Design Studio has dreamed up an innovative new concept named Air Yacht that has the ability to "sail in the sky" as well as the ocean, and it looks every bit as outlandish as it sounds.

edition.cnn.com

Lazzarini reveals 150m airship-style superyacht concept powered by helium gas

Italian studio Lazzarini has unveiled a 150m flying superyacht concept powered by helium, named Air Yacht.

www.boatinternational.com

Hmmm...

Constructed from carbon fiber, the enormous structure will be equipped with two blimps filled with compressed helium, enabling it to take to the skies at 60 knots for more than 48 hours a time "without emissions," according to the design team.

 

[Archibald]

Yesterday watched "Flying whales" on Youtube. Their channel...

https://www.youtube.com/@flyingwhales7543/videos

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtf8OTKTf6A

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSrMJHuUyX8

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VLs9VbT_7s


They want to build an enormous Zeppelin plant in Laruscade, which ain't too far from my homeplace...

"flying whale laruscade - Google Search

 

[publiusr]

Following up on my post from Monday, here's a link to JP Aerospace's website. Expect Optimistic figures, and excuse the early noughties graphics.

Airship to Orbit

View attachment 687296

I’m more open to the concept of airship-FROM-orbit.

HLLVs orbit segments that inflate…H9 MUSCLE ion engines push the pre-assembled craft to Venus as part of the HAVOK program.

Instead of trying to speed out of Earth’s soup—it is much easier to slow down in Venus.’

Maybe solar sail Mylar webbing between the V or whatever to help slow.

 

[Jemiba]

Don't want to spoil any hopes, but I actually was in such a hangar. It was built for the abortive CargoLifter, but AFAIK the
only flying things, it ever housed, were a Skyship 600 for PR work, and a small balloon, used for some developmental
purposes.
Ah, and today, it's a much frequented holiday resort and water park. So at least, not the whole investment was in vain.



(photo via Varta-Guide.de)

 

[Charlesferdinand]

These guys offer trips in a stratospheric balloon as of 2024. You can book your seats now

Zephalto - Dare the dream

The low-carbon journey to space.

www.zephalto.com

 

[Rhinocrates]

These guys offer trips in a stratospheric balloon as of 2024. You can book your seats now

Zephalto - Dare the dream

The low-carbon journey to space.

www.zephalto.com

Ooh! That's New Zealand in in the thumbnail on the link. I could see my house from up there, except it's smaller than a pixel.

I'd never heard of these guys before. There are a couple of other ventures promoting stratospheric balloon flights, the Judean People's Front and the People's Front of Judea... I mean Space Perspective and World View (I gather that there was some falling out in the boardroom that led to a schism).

Travel to Space

Space Perspective is taking space travel to a new level. Discover a new way to travel to space.

spaceperspective.com

World View | Stratosphere Exploration | Stratospheric High-Altitude Balloons

World View sets the standard for stratospheric exploration via high-altitude balloons. Offering remote sensing, C4ISR and asset monitoring via stratospheric balloons, along with future space tourism and research and education offerings.

www.worldview.space

BTW, a co-founder of Space Perspective was Jane Poynter, who was also a co-founder of Biosphere 2 and is now with World View. Their board includes Alan Stern (he of the New Horizons Pluto mission). Her memoir of Biosphere 2 is here:

The Human Experiment : Jane Poynter : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

archive.org

 

[Rhinocrates]

Thinking of JP Aerospace, for which I have a soft spot, an even more radical idea is Leik Myrabo's lightcraft, which used an external energy source. In it's initial proof of concept phase it was something like a Christmas tree ornament on a wire, but the ultimate version would be an inflated tensile structure. Alas, with his retirement in 2011, work seems to have stopped.

Lightcraft - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Archived here (sorry, just a 1st page image):

Lightcraft Technologies, Inc.

Lightcraft Technologies is the leader in beamed energy propulsion techonology and application.

web.archive.org

Book here:

https://www.amazon.com/Lightcraft-Flight-Handbook-LTI-20-Hypersonic/dp/1926592034/ref=sr_1_1?qid=1687774189&refinements=p_27%3ALeik+N.+Myrabo&s=books&sr=1-1&text=Leik+N.+Myrabo

Discussed at length here too, as 'Luke' Myrabo:

The Future of Flight - Luke Myrabo; Dean Ing: 9780671559410 - AbeBooks

Low prices on new and used copies of books. 30 days return policy - Looks at technological developments which will shape the future of air and space travel, including ultralight aircraft, antimatter, and high-energy laser propulsion systems

www.abebooks.com

That sits between Bono and Gatland's Frontiers of Space and O'Neill's The High Frontier on my bookshelf. Saving up for Myrabo's book...

How do you get what is essentially a blimp survive a hypersonic airflow? Focus microwaves on a point ahead to create a detonation point that serves as an airspike.

Can't remember the provenance of the images, but here you go: