Late War M4 Sherman Redesign

[Apophenia]

... The Sherman 105 assault guns only had about 60 rounds onboard, so I'd expect a Sherman 90 to have about the same...

Good comparison. I wonder what the effect would be of the 90mm M3 round being longer? That round was 37.53-inches long overall versus 31.07-inches for the 105 round. Not sure how much that difference would effect stowage.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Good comparison. I wonder what the effect would be of the 90mm M3 round being longer? That round was 37.53-inches long overall versus 31.07-inches for the 105 round. Not sure how much that difference would effect stowage.

I have no clue. You'd need either a good 3d model of the interior of a Sherman or physical access to a Sherman and a tape measure...

 

[Scott Kenny]

Good comparison. I wonder what the effect would be of the 90mm M3 round being longer? That round was 37.53-inches long overall versus 31.07-inches for the 105 round. Not sure how much that difference would effect stowage.

The T25E1's ammo capacity was clear down to 42 rounds, so depending on just how the racks are arranged that extra length may really mess things up. https://www.tankarchives.ca/2021/06/intermediate-experiment.html

Example: Say Sherman 105 has 3x racks per side, rounds stowed horizontally. Takes roughly 100" length. 3x racks of 90mm would take 120"+, so the likely result is only 2x racks per side for 80" and 20" empty space. (edit: fixed numbers and units)

 

[Kat Tsun]

But for a T-34/85 type upgrade to the Sherman, dropping T25/T26 turrets onto a bunch of Shermans would have been doable in WW2.

What benefit does taking turrets from M26 Pershing and putting them on a Sherman bring compared to simply making more M26 hulls?

The T-34-100 was done in WW2. Where do you think the T-54 came from? Do you think the M26 Pershing was just pulled out of a hat? No, they tried to fit the 90mm to the Sherman, saw the turret was too big for the tiny hull, and made a new hull to mount the big turret.

Both upgrade programs for M4/T26 and T-34-100 were canceled precisely because they were both kind of dumb.

 

[Scott Kenny]

The T-34-100 was done in WW2. Where do you think T-44 and T-54 came from? Do you think the M26 Pershing was just pulled out of a hat? No, they tried to fit the 90mm to the Sherman, saw the turret was too big for the tiny hull, and made a new hull to mount the big turret.

Thought the T-34/100 was post war? Ah, well, whatever.

They did fit a 90mm to the Sherman hull, as the M36B1. M36 Jackson TD turret on a Sherman hull because there weren't enough M36 hulls available. Ironically, the M36B1 was preferred by the crews, between somewhat better armor and having an extra machine gun in the bow.

 

[Kat Tsun]

Thought the T-34/100 was post war? Ah, well, whatever.

Both the T-34-100 and T26/M4 are from 1944. The M4 had the same turret as the T26 tank while the T-34 had the same gun as the T-44.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Both the T-34-100 and T26/M4 are from 1944. The M4 had the same turret as the T26 tank while the T-34 had the same gun as the T-44.

I must need to buy a copy of Zaloga... I didn't think the US Army tested the M4/T26 turret.

 

[Foo Fighter]

AFAIK, the T-34/100 was a one off during the war which did not proceed. The most numerous T34/100 was a post war Egyptian project.

The T-54 was an progression from T-44 development which began with an 85mm from the T-34/85 with one vehicle also fitted with a 100mm.

 

[kocovgoce]

if you want I can present some of my ideas l with modified m4 cherman at the level of a second generation tank like a t-54

 

[Foo Fighter]

This is not the alternative timeline section or users art section so, no thanks.

Sherman, not Cherman......

 

[Kat Tsun]

AFAIK, the T-34/100 was a one off during the war which did not proceed. The most numerous T34/100 was a post war Egyptian project.

The T-54 was an progression from T-44 development which began with an 85mm from the T-34/85 with one vehicle also fitted with a 100mm.

The Cubans put D-30s on some T-34s, but they have open tops.

 

[Foo Fighter]

Having so many makes them useful for adaptation. Considering how long they remained in service for, a success story.

https://en.topwar.ru/161646-kubinskaja-armija-dala-vtoruju-zhizn-tankam-t-34-i-t-55.html

 

[jstar]

I must need to buy a copy of Zaloga... I didn't think the US Army tested the M4/T26 turret.

I think this is from Hunnicutts "Sherman" book.

 

[Scott Kenny]

View attachment 714465
I think this is from Hunnicutts "Sherman" book.

Better add Hunnicut to the list as well...

Thanks!

So it could have been done as an almost-emergency thing, similar to M4 Jumbos. Ammo stowage would be the kicker. AGF wanted a huge number of rounds onboard, and an M4/T26 is probably looking at 40-60 rounds like the M4 105mm.