Kriegsmarine - KM Ship Plans/Discussion

[_Sarcasticat_]

I was wondering, are there any real reasons why German ditched turtleback on Mackensen in favor of vertical belt? i heard plenty reasons (weight, long-range fire, underwater shell hit against lower belt, buoyancy etc).

A BB question, a bit out of my realm, but I believe this is discussed in Gary Staff's German Battlecruisers of World War I.

Ah, it is!

Staff writes that the design department removed the Böschung (sloping armor) to:
- Allow for easier coaling
- Provide structural advantages
- Increased weight savings (for speed, which was deemed paramount)
Not to say that there weren't other considerations, but these appear to be the ones on their minds.

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

Ladies, Gentlemen...Apache Attack Helicopters...the day has arrived.
I said I would let you know when I obtained more plans. So, as promised, I'm proud to present the next set of 20 plans recently made available to me.
Here is the link: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1TvB_4n7bAEFCNdy5kOFPAruCxWLS9HXW?usp=sharing
Here is the list:
RM/25 7747: Zerstorer Frankreich (ZF)2/ Between Deck 1:50
RM/25 7748: ZF2/ Furnishings - Aft Tween Deck 1:50
RM/25 7749: ZF2/ Stowage 1:50
RM/25 7785: ZF6, ZF7: Arrangement of Boilers, Turbines, And Auxiliary Equipment 1:50
RM/25 8570: Spahkreuzer/ Upper Decks and Bridges, 1941 1:100
RM/25 8571: Spahkreuzer/ Lower Deck and Inner Floor, 1941 1:100
RM/25 8573: Spahkreuzer 38/ Carrier-Main Boiler-Boiler Rm 2, 1941 1:25
RM/25 8574: Spahkreuzer38/ Carrier-Auxiliary Boiler, 1941 1:25
RM/25 8575: Spahkreuzer 38/ Carrier-Turbine System Starboard, 1941 1:25
RM/25 8577: Spahkreuzer/ Speed Measurement System Frame 92.2 to 93.2 Port, 1941 1:10
RM/25 8578: Spahkreuzer/ Equipment-Rear Deckhouse-Back Deck-Frame 33 to 52.95, 1941 1:25
RM/25 8579: Spahkreuzer/ Equipment-Deck House-Superstructure Deck, 1941 1:25
RM/25 8612: Spahkreuzer/ Boiler, Turbine, and Auxiliary Equipment - Power Plant 2 1:50
RM/25 8694: Spahkreuzer/ Middle Shaft Motors, 1940 1:50
RM/25 8696: Spahkreuzer/ Boiler, Turbine, and Auxiliary Equipment - Power Plant 1 1:50
RM/25 8698: ZF2/ Boiler, Turbine, and Auxiliary Machine Arrangement, 1941 1:50
RM/25 16146: Spahkreuzer 40/ Turbine, Boiler, Engine, and Auxiliary Machine Arrangement, 1941 1:100
RM/25 16155: Spahkreuzer 40/ Allocation Plan, 1942 1:200
RM/25 16389: Type 1936C/ Longitudinal Section and Top View 1:100
RM/25 16141: Spahkreuzer 38/ Splinter Protection Arrangement, 1941 1:250

You will, of course, find the other plans I've obtained in there. Be warned, these are EXTREMELY LARGE .TIFF FILES. If your internet isn't godlike, I advise prepping for a long download time. These are anywhere between 150 MB and upwards of 900 MB per image. The folders also in the Primary Documents-->Germany folder contain numerous, if less detailed and cohesive, hand-taken pictures of various other plans.

If you have any questions, do not feel any reluctance to ask.

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

Found Flottentorpedoboot 1944 weight statement. On Wikipedia, of all things.
"The preliminary weight composition reflects the planning status in 1944." [Note that the ships were ordered March 28, 1944.]

description Weight
[t]
Hull 579.00
Main machines 557.80
Auxiliary machines 70.20
Construction reserve S 20.00
Artillery armament 63.20
Torpedo armament 26.00
Spear weapon facility 11.40
Empty ship 1,327.60


General devices 27.00
Nautical instruments, rigging 2.50
Radio and UT systems 10.36
Artillery equipment 11.75
Torpedo devices 4.00
Spear weapon devices 4.03
Water in the pipelines 0.50
Empty ship 1,387.74


Artillery, rifle and salute ammunition 60.30
Torpedo ammunition, smoke acid 10.50
Spear ammunition 5.44
Consumables 4.50
Crew (165 men) 12.38
effects 8.75
Provisions (1 week) 2.50
Type displacement 1,492.11


Drinking water, washing water 7.90
Feed water 13.70
Heating oil for 1,900 nm at a speed of 19 kn 116.80
Fuel oil 3.20
Lubricating oil 3.20
Construction displacement 1,636.61


Drinking and washing water, mob supplies 11.90
Feed water, mob supply 20.50
Heating oil, mob stock 175.20
Fuel oil, mob supply 4.80
Lube Oil, Mob Supply 4.80


Full displacement 1,854.11


I'm personally not quite sure what source this draws from as apparently only Harold Fock's Die Deutsche Flottentorpedoboot 1942-1945 (of which I have a physical copy) is listed, but I do not recall a weight statement being provided for Ftb 1944 in his book - only Type 1939, 1940, and 1941.
I hope this bit of information will find its way to someone who will find it useful.

Sincerely, and until next time,
Sarcasticat.

 

[Roodbaard1958!]

Ladies, Gentlemen...Apache Attack Helicopters...the day has arrived.
I said I would let you know when I obtained more plans. So, as promised, I'm proud to present the next set of 20 plans recently made available to me.
Here is the link: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1TvB_4n7bAEFCNdy5kOFPAruCxWLS9HXW?usp=sharing
Here is the list:
RM/25 7747: Zerstorer Frankreich (ZF)2/ Between Deck 1:50
RM/25 7748: ZF2/ Furnishings - Aft Tween Deck 1:50
RM/25 7749: ZF2/ Stowage 1:50
RM/25 7785: ZF6, ZF7: Arrangement of Boilers, Turbines, And Auxiliary Equipment 1:50
RM/25 8570: Spahkreuzer/ Upper Decks and Bridges, 1941 1:100
RM/25 8571: Spahkreuzer/ Lower Deck and Inner Floor, 1941 1:100
RM/25 8573: Spahkreuzer 38/ Carrier-Main Boiler-Boiler Rm 2, 1941 1:25
RM/25 8574: Spahkreuzer38/ Carrier-Auxiliary Boiler, 1941 1:25
RM/25 8575: Spahkreuzer 38/ Carrier-Turbine System Starboard, 1941 1:25
RM/25 8577: Spahkreuzer/ Speed Measurement System Frame 92.2 to 93.2 Port, 1941 1:10
RM/25 8578: Spahkreuzer/ Equipment-Rear Deckhouse-Back Deck-Frame 33 to 52.95, 1941 1:25
RM/25 8579: Spahkreuzer/ Equipment-Deck House-Superstructure Deck, 1941 1:25
RM/25 8612: Spahkreuzer/ Boiler, Turbine, and Auxiliary Equipment - Power Plant 2 1:50
RM/25 8694: Spahkreuzer/ Middle Shaft Motors, 1940 1:50
RM/25 8696: Spahkreuzer/ Boiler, Turbine, and Auxiliary Equipment - Power Plant 1 1:50
RM/25 8698: ZF2/ Boiler, Turbine, and Auxiliary Machine Arrangement, 1941 1:50
RM/25 16146: Spahkreuzer 40/ Turbine, Boiler, Engine, and Auxiliary Machine Arrangement, 1941 1:100
RM/25 16155: Spahkreuzer 40/ Allocation Plan, 1942 1:200
RM/25 16389: Type 1936C/ Longitudinal Section and Top View 1:100
RM/25 16141: Spahkreuzer 38/ Splinter Protection Arrangement, 1941 1:250

You will, of course, find the other plans I've obtained in there. Be warned, these are EXTREMELY LARGE .TIFF FILES. If your internet isn't godlike, I advise prepping for a long download time. These are anywhere between 150 MB and upwards of 900 MB per image. The folders also in the Primary Documents-->Germany folder contain numerous, if less detailed and cohesive, hand-taken pictures of various other plans.

If you have any questions, do not feel any reluctance to ask.

RM 25-22617 is really interesting! Thx, didn't know of this proposal

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

Ladies, Gentlemen...Apache Attack Helicopters...the day has arrived.
I said I would let you know when I obtained more plans. So, as promised, I'm proud to present the next set of 20 plans recently made available to me.
Here is the link: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1TvB_4n7bAEFCNdy5kOFPAruCxWLS9HXW?usp=sharing
Here is the list:
RM/25 7747: Zerstorer Frankreich (ZF)2/ Between Deck 1:50
RM/25 7748: ZF2/ Furnishings - Aft Tween Deck 1:50
RM/25 7749: ZF2/ Stowage 1:50
RM/25 7785: ZF6, ZF7: Arrangement of Boilers, Turbines, And Auxiliary Equipment 1:50
RM/25 8570: Spahkreuzer/ Upper Decks and Bridges, 1941 1:100
RM/25 8571: Spahkreuzer/ Lower Deck and Inner Floor, 1941 1:100
RM/25 8573: Spahkreuzer 38/ Carrier-Main Boiler-Boiler Rm 2, 1941 1:25
RM/25 8574: Spahkreuzer38/ Carrier-Auxiliary Boiler, 1941 1:25
RM/25 8575: Spahkreuzer 38/ Carrier-Turbine System Starboard, 1941 1:25
RM/25 8577: Spahkreuzer/ Speed Measurement System Frame 92.2 to 93.2 Port, 1941 1:10
RM/25 8578: Spahkreuzer/ Equipment-Rear Deckhouse-Back Deck-Frame 33 to 52.95, 1941 1:25
RM/25 8579: Spahkreuzer/ Equipment-Deck House-Superstructure Deck, 1941 1:25
RM/25 8612: Spahkreuzer/ Boiler, Turbine, and Auxiliary Equipment - Power Plant 2 1:50
RM/25 8694: Spahkreuzer/ Middle Shaft Motors, 1940 1:50
RM/25 8696: Spahkreuzer/ Boiler, Turbine, and Auxiliary Equipment - Power Plant 1 1:50
RM/25 8698: ZF2/ Boiler, Turbine, and Auxiliary Machine Arrangement, 1941 1:50
RM/25 16146: Spahkreuzer 40/ Turbine, Boiler, Engine, and Auxiliary Machine Arrangement, 1941 1:100
RM/25 16155: Spahkreuzer 40/ Allocation Plan, 1942 1:200
RM/25 16389: Type 1936C/ Longitudinal Section and Top View 1:100
RM/25 16141: Spahkreuzer 38/ Splinter Protection Arrangement, 1941 1:250

You will, of course, find the other plans I've obtained in there. Be warned, these are EXTREMELY LARGE .TIFF FILES. If your internet isn't godlike, I advise prepping for a long download time. These are anywhere between 150 MB and upwards of 900 MB per image. The folders also in the Primary Documents-->Germany folder contain numerous, if less detailed and cohesive, hand-taken pictures of various other plans.

If you have any questions, do not feel any reluctance to ask.

RM 25-22617 is really interesting! Thx, didn't know of this proposal

Yeah, my little bit of research indicates this is the German civilian vessel Hansadampfer converted into a CVL.

 

[alexi]

The mystery documents about O, P and possibly Q variants, yet unsolved, do you think its possible on bunderarchiv?

https://imgur.com/CJq38j6

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

The mystery documents about O, P and possibly Q variants, yet unsolved, do you think its possible on bunderarchiv?

https://imgur.com/CJq38j6

Ah yes, I have had this image for a little while now. Comparing it to the final specifications of the O and P-class, it shares some similarities with these mentioned designs but does not accurately match any one of them. The closest is O39, which I figure directly precedes the finalized design created in 1940 - but is not the O40. Even though orders for the ships were called for in 1939, it was realized that construction would have to be done post-war and thus weren't laid down. This gives some time for designers to speculate, and that's what I believe this source to be primarily about: speculation on variants to the O and P-class. I can only say that this document likely originated in 1942 or perhaps prior given the latest date is "O42". Honestly I have no idea where this comes from or if it's in the Bundesarchiv. It could be one of the many yet-named but digitalized pieces that can be found in the Invenio search function.

 

[ssaa8836]

The mystery documents about O, P and possibly Q variants, yet unsolved, do you think its possible on bunderarchiv?

https://imgur.com/CJq38j6

This doc comes from Die deutsche Kriegsmarine-Rüstung 1942-1945 (by Guntram Schulze-Wegener), on page 78.
Its source is BA-MA RM 6/83

 

[alexi]

This doc comes from Die deutsche Kriegsmarine-Rüstung 1942-1945 (by Guntram Schulze-Wegener), on page 78.
Its source is BA-MA RM 6/83

Oh, i found it on the achive, some interesting data sheets but sadly i can't read German at all.

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

Not much to discuss, here's some 28cm turret plans in 1926/27 for preliminary panzerschiff projects, one of Zenker panzerschiff type "A" carrying these turrets (assuming by the gunhouse shape).

https://imgur.com/a/XU3INYp

Beautiful find Alexi, I've been wondering what these would be like.

This doc comes from Die deutsche Kriegsmarine-Rüstung 1942-1945 (by Guntram Schulze-Wegener), on page 78.
Its source is BA-MA RM 6/83

Oh, i found it on the achive, some interesting data sheets but sadly i can't read German at all.

I'll see if I can do anything with it.

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

I found the source. of the O and P image thanks to you. @ssaa8836

 

[alexi]

If you happen to find anything on the Flottenkreuzer (1916) designs I'd be very interested in that.

If you have time, go on "RM 3 Reichsmarineamt Teil 03 und 04 Allgemeines Marine-Departement" search "schiffbauwesen" (ship engineering) go to "Schiffbauwesen allgemein" (general folder), that folder have load of documents about ship plan, possibly never-were projects, i have to found a late 1918 document mentioned fast-battleship with triple and quadruple turret.

Edit: if you want more, go on "RM 3 Reichsmarineamt Teil 06 Konstruktions-Departement" to "schiffsakten", it will show all type of ships and click on "Bau von... - Allgemeines " (construction of [insert name here] ship - general), these folder contains plans, sketch, model, projects, reports etc.

 

[phil gollin]

.

How about this ?

Secret Projects of the Kriegsmarine: Unseen Designs of Nazi Germany's Navy: Amazon.co.uk: Sgarlato, Nico, Sgarlato, Alessio: 9781784386870: Books

Buy Secret Projects of the Kriegsmarine: Unseen Designs of Nazi Germany's Navy by Sgarlato, Nico, Sgarlato, Alessio (ISBN: 9781784386870) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.

amazon.co.uk

Not out until 22nd May 2022

Secret Projects of the Kriegsmarine: Unseen Designs of Nazi Germany's Navy​

(!)

.

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

.

How about this ?

Secret Projects of the Kriegsmarine: Unseen Designs of Nazi Germany's Navy: Amazon.co.uk: Sgarlato, Nico, Sgarlato, Alessio: 9781784386870: Books

Buy Secret Projects of the Kriegsmarine: Unseen Designs of Nazi Germany's Navy by Sgarlato, Nico, Sgarlato, Alessio (ISBN: 9781784386870) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.

amazon.co.uk

Not out until 22nd May 2022

Secret Projects of the Kriegsmarine: Unseen Designs of Nazi Germany's Navy​

(!)

.

:thinking: Now this is interesting. I'll pre-order it, but I wonder if there will be anything beyond what's already available, I wonder?

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

ALCON,

The Primary Documents folder for Germany has been updated and I've implemented a few new things here and there for you to look at. No doubt some things you will find interesting.

I'm interested to see where these plans will eventually end up.

Germany - Sarcasticat's Home :) - Google Drive

drive.google.com

If anyone can tell if there is a difference in caliber between the SK C/34f, g, and h, you get the golden cookie because I cannot figure it out.

P.S.: Will be moving a bunch of plans over from the RM 25 folder to their respective new homes as soon as possible. If you cannot find a ship plan, or want more, you're sure to find it in the RM 25 folder.

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

I know the site, you can even find full Grosskampschiffs plans on bunderachiv, they also have a bunch of heavily edited/redesign proposal designated as "L30" and "L31" fast-battleship (most of spec data are handwriting... terrible handwriting, including a rough sketch showed rearranged machinery layout).

Could you gather some of these BDA plans if you don't already have them?

You can find the GK series here:

Index of /plans/SM_Studienentwurf

I will check home if I have the higher resolution versions.

Mmm yeah TDP has been very useful to me, especially since they have plans for Kreuzer M.

 

[Tzoli]

This might be of some interest:
German Project 177 light cruiser design (Trough the Dutch IvS Design Bureau) an offer for China from 1929
3x3 15cm (text says 6" but turret is very German)
4x1 3" (likely French 76mm gun or an unknown Krupp export weapon or actually a 88mm FLaK)
4x2 2pdr (likely the 40mm Vickers Mark II, or maybe but unlikely the 37mm SK C/30)
2x3 21" TT

https://imgur.com/326wtkn

View: https://i.imgur.com/326wtkn.png

https://imgur.com/Zw9S76Q

View: https://i.imgur.com/Zw9S76Q.png

https://imgur.com/jCkzEE9

View: https://i.imgur.com/jCkzEE9.png

https://imgur.com/MFgzq0n

View: https://i.imgur.com/MFgzq0n.png

https://imgur.com/mAHOtj6

View: https://i.imgur.com/mAHOtj6.png

https://imgur.com/I0ewd7R

View: https://i.imgur.com/I0ewd7R.png


What is interesting that the 15cm guns look rather short compared to the turret.
They don't seems to be the usual 15cm/61 SK C/25 guns

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

This might be of some interest:
German Project 177 light cruiser design (Trough the Dutch IvS Design Bureau) an offer for China from 1929
3x3 15cm (text says 6" but turret is very German)
4x1 3" (likely French 76mm gun or an unknown Krupp export weapon or actually a 88mm FLaK)
4x2 2pdr (likely the 40mm Vickers Mark II, or maybe but unlikely the 37mm SK C/30)
2x3 21" TT

https://imgur.com/326wtkn

View: https://i.imgur.com/326wtkn.png

https://imgur.com/Zw9S76Q

View: https://i.imgur.com/Zw9S76Q.png

https://imgur.com/jCkzEE9

View: https://i.imgur.com/jCkzEE9.png

https://imgur.com/MFgzq0n

View: https://i.imgur.com/MFgzq0n.png

https://imgur.com/mAHOtj6

View: https://i.imgur.com/mAHOtj6.png

https://imgur.com/I0ewd7R

View: https://i.imgur.com/I0ewd7R.png


What is interesting that the 15cm guns look rather short compared to the turret.
They don't seems to be the usual 15cm/61 SK C/25 guns

You can find these images within the Library. They were put there by @Kingpin6100. I don't exactly want to move them, but I do realize they could go into the German folder.
And yes, these turrets are very weird. They have a very WW1-esque style to them. They may also be 15cm/55 SK C/28 based on the year of the design.

I'll upload them later, but admittedly you probably won't find anything useful beside some handwriting, there are only few redesigned sketches, part of me want to access Grosskampschiff plans with triple and quadruple turrets documents... no digital scans, arghhh!!!

Updates: it appear i got "L30" and "L31" wrong, they simply redesigned from L20~ series fast battleship not related to Grosskampschiffes.

No digital scans? Agh.

L20's are still within my realm of interest - I haven't forgotten the Reichmarine and Kriegsmarine's older counterpart in the slightest. In they can go, and for anything else we can find.

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

I may have to do later, kinda bored lately, as for 12.7cm, the last four have no digital scans (probably that's where 12.7 KM40 mount contains or another unknown flak designs).

Since Sirene familiar with bunderachiv, but i don't know if he ever made contacts and orders these copies from archives, maybe you should ask him?

Usually Sirene does what we do - searching and poking our way through. Do you happen to have the numbers? RM 24/???

 

[gollevainen]

Thank you for these, they are spelndid findings that I've not seen before!

 

[Roeland]

Thank you for posting so many plans. I was examining the unknown diesel engine, it seems to be a Mercedes Benz Diesel MB507. Used in many Kriegsmarine vessels, but also in the Maus

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

Thank you for posting so many plans. I was examining the unknown diesel engine, it seems to be a Mercedes Benz Diesel MB507. Used in many Kriegsmarine vessels, but also in the Maus

MB507? Got it, thank you! I'll make the edits.

 

[Roeland]

I am not sure which version it is yet, it seems there were two.
I am checking again in the archives to see if there is more to be learned about this engine and what it was used for.

 

[spcmdxp]

An earlier 20,3cm triple turret?
Because this drawing seems to be made in August, 1937:

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/kriegsmarine-central-km-ship-plans-discussion.37568/page-4#post-514754

There appears to be such a file, along with that of many other parts including a Schmidt boiler for cruisers(RM 25/6825 Zeichnungs-Nr. H 90251 A.- Schmidt-Kessel für Kreuzer (1 : 10) 1932).
However it seems that the originals are at Bundesarchiv-Militararchiv in Freiburg, but unluckily the digitized versions aren't available on invenio and I can't find them anywhere.

Well no... they're non-digital scans, so file name numbers perhaps?
RM 25/8169 "20,3-cm-Drillingturm (1 : 50)" - 1931.
RM 25/8949 "Zeichnungs-Nr. WSK 39300.- 15-cm-Tbts.K C/36 in 15-cm-Tbts.L C/36 mit Handbetrieb" - 1940-1942.
RM 25/8950 "Zeichnungs-Nr. WSK 39300.- 15-cm-Tbts.K C/36 in 15-cm-Tbts.L C/36 mit Maschinenantrieb" - 1940-1942.

As for barrel measurements, i get the same guess is 42cm guns too but still uncertain, let me see if i can find the 40.6cm full barrel+x ray version of it (already found the 40.6cm breech details sketch). There's also French built 38cm/45, for Jean Bart, i'll upload later.

Maybe there's still a chance that the digital scans currently available that remains to be found (I wonder how to do that though). I remember that there are quite a few documents that are available on other sites like The Dreadnought Project but nowhere to be found on invenio. For example, below is a drawing of Prinz Eugen
http://dreadnoughtproject.org/plans/KM_Prinz_Eugen_1940/langsschnitt_100dpi.jpg
I believe it to be numbered RM 25/7136 later (number not shown on this scan) but the scan doesn't appear on invenio.

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

ALCON,

Added a few things from The Dreadnought Project. I've finished everything from the Kaiserliche Marine period but have really begun the Weimar/Reich period plans. I will continue to do so tomorrow.
It's quite the time-consuming process.

Leichter/Motor Kreuzer 1938 is also a folder you will find now.

Of course the changes with the turrets/gun folders and images in KM Weaponry, but I consider that a WIP.

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

German Primary Docs folder has been reorganized. RM 25 contents are now in KM Ships/KM Weaponry folders and properly named, along with all the .TIFF files. Some folders and .TIFF files are of the same plan so don't mind the occasional duplicate. All I need to do is refine and standardize folder names for the most part.

Also unzipped the RM 6 files into folders for easier access without downloading.

 

[Tzoli]

Any possibility for pre-Scharnhorst and pre-Bismarck plans?, don't think those are easy to find.

If you're looking for proto-Scharnhorst's then look no further than Panzerschiff D (Ersatz Elsass) preliminaries:

There are a few images of Schlatschiff F and G (prelim designs for Bismarck) floating around on the internet.

Honestly though? You hit anything above a heavy cruiser and in large part you've lost my interest.

Do you have more data on these D/Scharnhorst ( Panzerschiffe D / Schlachtschiffe D / Ersatz Elsass ) preliminary designs?

 

[alexi]

Would be great if someone native can translate those RM notebooks.

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

Would be great if someone native can translate those RM notebooks.

I agree. If anyone can find one...

Any possibility for pre-Scharnhorst and pre-Bismarck plans?, don't think those are easy to find.

If you're looking for proto-Scharnhorst's then look no further than Panzerschiff D (Ersatz Elsass) preliminaries:

There are a few images of Schlatschiff F and G (prelim designs for Bismarck) floating around on the internet.

Honestly though? You hit anything above a heavy cruiser and in large part you've lost my interest.

Do you have more data on these D/Scharnhorst ( Panzerschiffe D / Schlachtschiffe D / Ersatz Elsass ) preliminary designs?

Unfortunately, no.

 

[alexi]

Preliminaries panzerschiff D are quite hard to find, you have to ask specific German naval forums, should Whitley's book have some of these, can anyone confirms?

I only remember tiny bit on D1 and D2 main belt protection (something at 100mm to 150mm belt due to their displacement), the rest grows with range from 220, 300, 320 and 350mm belt, that's, now a proposed diesel panzerschiff D was ask early on before KM ditched for turbine propulsion (easier to install, for sake of timing), at least we know that quadruple turreted D did exist.

 

[alexi]

Anyway, if you want to know more about panzerschiff D preliminaries and study, i suggest you read this thread (is in German), some guys upload picture of panzerschiff D plans (sadly they're all from 2007 so link are dead).

The 30.5cm armed proposed Panzerschiff D did exists but very few, mainly because Raeder obsessions, he suggests that if 33cm isn't ready yet, then 30.5cm should take place (mentioned in those 26000,26500 tons studies), and then the mysterious 7th and 8th replacement (supposedly German only plans to replace six aged pre-dreadnoughts) but two more replacement come along (this demand a study of 25000 tons, armed with 30.5cm, interesting).

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

To ALCON,

Another big update! MORE PLANS!

Today's list consists of Flottentorpedoboote 1939 and 1941 with some additional plans from the Typ 1936C Zerstorer.
Here is the list:
- RM 25/5911 Line Plan [FTB 1941]
- RM 25/6859 Longitudinal and Top View [FTB 1941]
- RM 25/6860 Deck Plans [FTB 1941] (From 1941)
- RM 25/6861 Oil and Water Distribution [FTB 1941]
- RM 25/6931 Suggested Arrangement of Torpedo Loading Device [FTB 1941]
- RM 25/7410 T22-T30 Telephone System Wiring Plan [FTB 1939]
- RM 25/7412 T22-T30 DC BuM Systems Wiring Plan [FTB 1939]
- RM 25/8674 Main Steam Line Arrangement with Metal Hose Expansion Joints [FTB 1939]
- RM 25/9249 10.5cm Cartridge Chamber No. IV (Frame 13.75 - 18.75) [FTB 1939]
- RM 25/16390 Upper Decks [TYPE 1936C]
- RM 25/16391 Lower Decks [TYPE 1936C]
- RM 25/16392 Cross Sections [TYPE 1936C]
- RM 25/16415 Oil and Water Distribution [TYPE 1936C]
- RM 25/16436 Cross Sections [FTB 1939] (From 1939-41)
- RM 25/16437 Deck Plans [FTB 1939] (From 1940)
- RM 25/16438 T22-T27 Deck Plans [FTB 1939] (From 1942)
- RM 25/16441 T22-T30 Electrically Operated Steering Gear Arrangement [FTB 1939]
- RM 25/16442 T22-T36 Water Facilities [FTB 1939] (1941-1942)
- RM 25/16453 T37-T42 Longitudinal and Top View [FTB 1941] (1944)
- RM 25/16454 T37-T42 Upper Decks [FTB 1941] (1944)
- RM 25/16455 T37-T42 Lower Decks [FTB 1941] (1944)
- RM 25/16456 T37-T42 Cross Sections [FTB 1941] (1944)
- RM 25/16457 T37-T42 High Pressure/Medium Pressure Steam Turbine [FTB 1941] (1942-43)
+ Total Size: 9.79 GB

I've nabbed some additional plans through Invenio for KREUZER M. It's not much, but it's honest work.

As you can tell, there are actually two versions of the Type 1941 here. In total, there are 4 major iterations of the Type 1941 design - wild, right?

Here is the link for those too lazy to go to OP: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1TvB_4n7bAEFCNdy5kOFPAruCxWLS9HXW?usp=sharing

You will find the new plans neatly organized within their class type folder. (I.e. FTB 1941 is in the folder for FTB 1941, and so on.)

If there is any new information or plans anyone would like to share, I'm always up for a discussion.

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

I've scraped through the archives again and came out with a lot of plans, this time with a focus on the larger ships.

Now to be included are the battleships Scharnhorst and Gneisenau (new and initial configuration respectively), Gneisenau 1942 38cm refit plan, H-class and O-class battleships.

You will find them in the above link. They're nothing new or special to some, but I hope you enjoy regardless.

 

[Tzoli]

Which H and O variants? H-39 and O-39?

 

[Roodbaard1958!]

To ALCON,

Another big update! MORE PLANS!

Today's list consists of Flottentorpedoboote 1939 and 1941 with some additional plans from the Typ 1936C Zerstorer.
Here is the list:
- RM 25/5911 Line Plan [FTB 1941]
- RM 25/6859 Longitudinal and Top View [FTB 1941]
- RM 25/6860 Deck Plans [FTB 1941] (From 1941)
- RM 25/6861 Oil and Water Distribution [FTB 1941]
- RM 25/6931 Suggested Arrangement of Torpedo Loading Device [FTB 1941]
- RM 25/7410 T22-T30 Telephone System Wiring Plan [FTB 1939]
- RM 25/7412 T22-T30 DC BuM Systems Wiring Plan [FTB 1939]
- RM 25/8674 Main Steam Line Arrangement with Metal Hose Expansion Joints [FTB 1939]
- RM 25/9249 10.5cm Cartridge Chamber No. IV (Frame 13.75 - 18.75) [FTB 1939]
- RM 25/16390 Upper Decks [TYPE 1936C]
- RM 25/16391 Lower Decks [TYPE 1936C]
- RM 25/16392 Cross Sections [TYPE 1936C]
- RM 25/16415 Oil and Water Distribution [TYPE 1936C]
- RM 25/16436 Cross Sections [FTB 1939] (From 1939-41)
- RM 25/16437 Deck Plans [FTB 1939] (From 1940)
- RM 25/16438 T22-T27 Deck Plans [FTB 1939] (From 1942)
- RM 25/16441 T22-T30 Electrically Operated Steering Gear Arrangement [FTB 1939]
- RM 25/16442 T22-T36 Water Facilities [FTB 1939] (1941-1942)
- RM 25/16453 T37-T42 Longitudinal and Top View [FTB 1941] (1944)
- RM 25/16454 T37-T42 Upper Decks [FTB 1941] (1944)
- RM 25/16455 T37-T42 Lower Decks [FTB 1941] (1944)
- RM 25/16456 T37-T42 Cross Sections [FTB 1941] (1944)
- RM 25/16457 T37-T42 High Pressure/Medium Pressure Steam Turbine [FTB 1941] (1942-43)
+ Total Size: 9.79 GB

I've nabbed some additional plans through Invenio for KREUZER M. It's not much, but it's honest work.

As you can tell, there are actually two versions of the Type 1941 here. In total, there are 4 major iterations of the Type 1941 design - wild, right?

Here is the link for those too lazy to go to OP: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1TvB_4n7bAEFCNdy5kOFPAruCxWLS9HXW?usp=sharing

You will find the new plans neatly organized within their class type folder. (I.e. FTB 1941 is in the folder for FTB 1941, and so on.)

If there is any new information or plans anyone would like to share, I'm always up for a discussion.

Nice, a lot of work you accomplished!

 

[Roodbaard1958!]

To ALCON,

Another big update! MORE PLANS!

Today's list consists of Flottentorpedoboote 1939 and 1941 with some additional plans from the Typ 1936C Zerstorer.
Here is the list:
- RM 25/5911 Line Plan [FTB 1941]
- RM 25/6859 Longitudinal and Top View [FTB 1941]
- RM 25/6860 Deck Plans [FTB 1941] (From 1941)
- RM 25/6861 Oil and Water Distribution [FTB 1941]
- RM 25/6931 Suggested Arrangement of Torpedo Loading Device [FTB 1941]
- RM 25/7410 T22-T30 Telephone System Wiring Plan [FTB 1939]
- RM 25/7412 T22-T30 DC BuM Systems Wiring Plan [FTB 1939]
- RM 25/8674 Main Steam Line Arrangement with Metal Hose Expansion Joints [FTB 1939]
- RM 25/9249 10.5cm Cartridge Chamber No. IV (Frame 13.75 - 18.75) [FTB 1939]
- RM 25/16390 Upper Decks [TYPE 1936C]
- RM 25/16391 Lower Decks [TYPE 1936C]
- RM 25/16392 Cross Sections [TYPE 1936C]
- RM 25/16415 Oil and Water Distribution [TYPE 1936C]
- RM 25/16436 Cross Sections [FTB 1939] (From 1939-41)
- RM 25/16437 Deck Plans [FTB 1939] (From 1940)
- RM 25/16438 T22-T27 Deck Plans [FTB 1939] (From 1942)
- RM 25/16441 T22-T30 Electrically Operated Steering Gear Arrangement [FTB 1939]
- RM 25/16442 T22-T36 Water Facilities [FTB 1939] (1941-1942)
- RM 25/16453 T37-T42 Longitudinal and Top View [FTB 1941] (1944)
- RM 25/16454 T37-T42 Upper Decks [FTB 1941] (1944)
- RM 25/16455 T37-T42 Lower Decks [FTB 1941] (1944)
- RM 25/16456 T37-T42 Cross Sections [FTB 1941] (1944)
- RM 25/16457 T37-T42 High Pressure/Medium Pressure Steam Turbine [FTB 1941] (1942-43)
+ Total Size: 9.79 GB

I've nabbed some additional plans through Invenio for KREUZER M. It's not much, but it's honest work.

As you can tell, there are actually two versions of the Type 1941 here. In total, there are 4 major iterations of the Type 1941 design - wild, right?

Here is the link for those too lazy to go to OP: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1TvB_4n7bAEFCNdy5kOFPAruCxWLS9HXW?usp=sharing

You will find the new plans neatly organized within their class type folder. (I.e. FTB 1941 is in the folder for FTB 1941, and so on.)

If there is any new information or plans anyone would like to share, I'm always up for a discussion.

Nice, a lot of work you accomplished!

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

Which H and O variants? H-39 and O-39?

Dates vary for H-class from 1939 to 1940. O-class 1940 and 1941.

 

[Wurger]

Thank you very much for sharing such data, Sarcasticat!

 

[Tzoli]

In the H plans there are a 3 and 4 turreted H-39 designs (called Entwurf II and III )
the Entwurf III was not the final H 39 as it had mixed steam turbines and diesel power plant ( COSAD ) 4 shafts and 175.000shp rather 165.000 full diesel and 3 shafts. Also there are one and two funnelled versions.
And there is a reworked H-40 from 1942 with the same aspects but much larger hull (I call this H 42 Entwurf I )
288m long wl, 79.000tons standard and only 4x2 40,6cm, armour unknown.

 

[Tzoli]

I'm not using Shipbucket style aka pixel style but rather my own