Kharkiv Design Bureau Turretless tank

[M Raffa putra H]

 

[Dilandu]

It's an imaginary design, EXTREMELY losely based on 1970s concept proposals (not projects; not designs; not even concepts; merely ideas). The original scheme looked actually like that:

 

[yeetmahboi]

When a T-72 and a T-74 love each other very much...

 

[LVisingr]

Not a "turretless T-72", not an "imaginary design", but rather a project of turretless tank from Kharkiv Design Bureau:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1896615859847647685

View: https://x.com/AndreiBtvt/status/1896615859847647685

 

[Grey Havoc]

Given it's nature, was it thought up with an eye to the defence of the Sino-Soviet border, perhaps?

 

[Dilandu]

Not a "turretless T-72", not an "imaginary design", but rather a project of turretless tank from Kharkiv Design Bureau:

It's imaginary design, VERY remotely based on the sketch I showed above. The Andrei.bt is not a reliable source.

 

[Dilandu]

Given it's nature, was it thought up with an eye to the defence of the Sino-Soviet border, perhaps?

It was not thought at all. It was merely an idea, inspired by Sweden turret-less tanks, that Alexander Morozov toyed a bit with.

 

[skylancer-3441]

Kharkov design bureau was paid to develop next gen tank, and in mid-70s they have pursued two designs simultaneously, more traditional one - 480, and some other design with unconventional layout.
That's established by the documents (published by Andrei_bt in his tg channel)

Which unfortunately do not give any description of unconventional layout.

But judging by text of Morozov Sr.'s diary, and by notes, attributed to Morozov Sr., about evolution of obj.450 design in 1972-1973 -
In 1973 obj.450 have arrived to layout very similar to one used in late 80s for obj.477A (hull ammo compartment between turret and engine, fully automated; and second autoloader for several rounds in turret basket), and as 477A is a >50t tank, that means that even with smaller gun and ammo and armor, that Morozov's next gen tank, weight-wise, have arrived to - not exactly the same point from which it started in late 60s, with conventional ~42-44t modifications of T-64A, but very close to it.
Which is why Morozov went on to search for another, more promising, layout. And not just by himself, making that sketch and providing description of it, but also by assigning some people from Kharkov design bureau to its development, and making presentations - in 1975-1976, final years and months before he retired.
(It's just one of many things which Kharkov bureau was developing simultaneously - there was T-64B, 476, 480, and 450-as-two-man-turretless-tank on top of that).


It's currently unclear, how much that contemporary scalemodel, in first message of this thread, resembles that turretless two-man tank which was presented by Kharkov design bureau during any time of 1975-1976,
as, according to diary, such design have changed over time -
I'd like to remind that there were at least 4 different layouts of 450 in 1973-1973 alone, and some changes were still happening to turreted version of it in April of 1974.

Or any other tank developed by Kharkov.
According to yet another document (one page posted by Andrei_bt in his tg channel),
research program Sodruzhestvo for main battle tank of 90s, from late 70s (previous research program have ended in October-November of 1977, this one is mentioned in February of 1979) have studied 3 layouts, without giving any details. Andrei_bt, while posting this page, have described 4, including - separately - 2-man tank and turretless tank. If that's correct, that adds entire 1978 to study more versions of that layout.

 

[Andrei_bt]

It's an imaginary design, EXTREMELY losely based on 1970s concept proposals (not projects; not designs; not even concepts; merely ideas). The original scheme looked actually like that:

View attachment 761571

You don't have slightest idea about what you are talking. Why do you post such trash nonsense?

 

[Andrei_bt]

Participants of the theme “Sodruzhestvo” - a set of studies to ensure the creation of a scientific and technical reserve in 77-1980 to the tank of the 90s.
In addition to the KMDB, the theme was handled by Lytkarinsky Optical Glass Plant, SKB Rotor, TsNII Metallov, VNIITM, IPMASH of the Academy of Sciences of the Ukrainian SSR, KHADI and other contractors.
The amount of financing is also indicated.

 

[youROKer]

You don't have slightest idea about what you are talking. Why do you post such trash nonsense?

You post photos of modern models retouching them to look like old photos. You never warn your readers about this. Y You publish almost no information that allows the reader to understand how much of the model is based on reality and how much is reconstructed. No wonder these photos have very little credibility.

About the model in this post - how much of it is reconstructed and how much is based on the actual design? It's impossible for me to understand it. Did you reconstruct it from the text description? Do you have a sketch? Do you have drawings? These are unanswered questions not only for this model but also for many previous models.

You don't have to provide the documents themselves if you don't think it's necessary. But it is good practice not to hide the fact that these are modern models and to indicate their level of reconstruction in the accompanying text.

 

[Andrei_bt]

You post photos of modern models retouching them to look like old photos. You never warn your readers about this. Y You publish almost no information that allows the reader to understand how much of the model is based on reality and how much is reconstructed. No wonder these photos have very little credibility.

About the model in this post - how much of it is reconstructed and how much is based on the actual design? It's impossible for me to understand it. Did you reconstruct it from the text description? Do you have a sketch? Do you have drawings? These are unanswered questions not only for this model but also for many previous models.

You don't have to provide the documents themselves if you don't think it's necessary. But it is good practice not to hide the fact that these are modern models and to indicate their level of reconstruction in the accompanying text.

After some people couldn't distinguish between a model and a tank, I started making a model tag on special (https://t.me/btvt2019/18457). But that didn't seem to help either.
Most of the information about tank building after 1960 is published by me, but you are not satisfied with it? - pass it by.
Of course, it's impossible for you to know how much of it is based on actual design. You do not study archives, have not published the diaries of A. A. Morozov and have not communicated with participants of events.
You could have asked questions instead of justifying the expert on furries and other nonsense in his meaningless post.

 

[Foo Fighter]

Not a "turretless T-72", not an "imaginary design", but rather a project of turretless tank from Kharkiv Design Bureau:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1896615859847647685

View: https://x.com/AndreiBtvt/status/1896615859847647685

I take it the driver is in the usual position centrally placed so, how does he get in/out?

A weird one tbt.

 

[Andrei_bt]

I take it the driver is in the usual position centrally placed so, how does he get in/out?

A weird one tbt.

it is obviously 2 man crew

 

[Scott Kenny]

It's an imaginary design, EXTREMELY losely based on 1970s concept proposals (not projects; not designs; not even concepts; merely ideas). The original scheme looked actually like that:

View attachment 761571

By the 1970s, fire control computers that enabled fire on the move with all axis turret stabilization existed.

Which means a turretless tank like the S-tank is much less competitive... Before then, when even a turreted tank needed to stop to fire effectively, the S-tank was competitive with turreted tanks.