Kaman helicopter and non-helicopter projects

[Mark Nankivil]

We have had a few K-Max helos in our area the past few years. The all red with gold trim one was setting light poles for a soccer field complex and the red with white trim was doing HVAC units for a new building. The red with black trim, with the Bambi Bucket strewn on the ground in front of it, was in Santa Fe, NM in June 2017 on call for fire fighting duties.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[cluttonfred]

I have always been surprised that Kaman never made a straightforward gunship conversion of the K-Max. The K-Max can lift 6,000 lb at sea level and over 4,000 lb even at 15,000 ft. A pair of loaded 19-round 2.75 in/70mm rocket pods weigh about 1,000-1,300 lb all told depending on the rocket warheads, that's a heck of a lot of firepower in a fairly simple, rugged, and relatively cheap package. That's 38 unguided rockets of many different varieties plus guided options that could follow a laser target designator from the K-Max, another aircraft or UAV, or troops on the ground. That would still leave plenty of load capacity for armor for the pilot and key systems plus the necessary military equipment (radios, IFF, maybe chaff/flares). All this on a well-proven airframe and powerplant that costs under $10 million, seems like a good idea to me.

 

[P-STICKNEY]

I have always been surprised that Kaman never made a straightforward gunship conversion of the K-Max. The K-Max can lift 6,000 lb at sea level and over 4,000 lb even at 15,000 ft. A pair of loaded 19-round 2.75 in/70mm rocket pods weigh about 1,000-1,300 lb all told depending on the rocket warheads, that's a heck of a lot of firepower in a fairly simple, rugged, and relatively cheap package. That's 38 unguided rockets of many different varieties plus guided options that could follow a laser target designator from the K-Max, another aircraft or UAV, or troops on the ground. That would still leave plenty of load capacity for armor for the pilot and key systems plus the necessary military equipment (radios, IFF, maybe chaff/flares). All this on a well-proven airframe and powerplant that costs under $10 million, seems like a good idea to me.

The first thing that comes to mind is that intermeshing helicopters like the Various Kamans have great vertical lift, they are very, very slow. As one H-43B Husky pilot once told me, forward flight "was like pushing your Grandmothr's Thanksgiving Turkey Platter flat side on in a hurricane." you also lose the real estate for things like sensors, like the Apache Longbow, or the mast mounted designator/illuminators that allow the chopper to use terrain masking.

 

[cluttonfred]

All good points and the K-Max has a Vne of 100 knots so it’s certainly not going to win any races, but not every military can afford to buy and especially to maintain even an old surplus Huey Cobra. I think it could be the helicopter equivalent of an armed Cessna Caravan, by no means cutting edge but a huge improvement over a tired old bird or nothing at all.

 

[Mark Nankivil]

I have always been surprised that Kaman never made a straightforward gunship conversion of the K-Max. The K-Max can lift 6,000 lb at sea level and over 4,000 lb even at 15,000 ft. A pair of loaded 19-round 2.75 in/70mm rocket pods weigh about 1,000-1,300 lb all told depending on the rocket warheads, that's a heck of a lot of firepower in a fairly simple, rugged, and relatively cheap package. That's 38 unguided rockets of many different varieties plus guided options that could follow a laser target designator from the K-Max, another aircraft or UAV, or troops on the ground. That would still leave plenty of load capacity for armor for the pilot and key systems plus the necessary military equipment (radios, IFF, maybe chaff/flares). All this on a well-proven airframe and powerplant that costs under $10 million, seems like a good idea to me.

In talking to the pilots with these K-Maxes, all commented on its relative lack of manueverability - great lifter since all the power goes to the rotors and not siphoned off to a tail rotor, but the manuveuring is sluggish and not crisp without a tail rotor. They all noted it was something you get used to but once you did, you knew what you can, and better not, do when flying.

 

[P-STICKNEY]

All good points and the K-Max has a Vne of 100 knots so it’s certainly not going to win any races, but not every military can afford to buy and especially to maintain even an old surplus Huey Cobra. I think it could be the helicopter equivalent of an armed Cessna Caravan, by no means cutting edge but a huge improvement over a tired old bird or nothing at all.

In that case, quite frankly, the best choice isn't a helicopter, but something like an Air Tractor turboprop cropduster with a 2-seat cockpit, extra fuel and a whole bunch oc sensors in place of the chemical hoppers - the sensors including Thermal Imaging and a Laser Designator, a radio stack that talks to everybody, (AM/FM VHF/UHF, clear and encrypted, even the Phone Network) and a forest of pylons which can carry small LGBs, GPS-guided bombs, laser guided 2.75s, and so on. With that loadout, It can loiter over an area in the top edge of the MANPADS envelope, out of the "bullets" envelope, searching for the Bad Guys and, if they can't drop enough on them, calling in and guiding the heavy hitters. Unless you can hide behind cover, like a helicopter, low level strafing and over the trenches Close Air Support is a mug's game. These days you get bettger coverage and accuracy with a (Nowadays cheap) smart weapon and good sensors. Of course, it helps that these days, the Guys on the Ground actually know where they are.

 

[thanos.massias]

Kaman H-2 "Tomahawk" attack helicopter:

View: https://youtu.be/-ywUt3iuOYA


I know that https://www.youtube.com/user/swk91356/videos has already been mentioned on this thread (post #16) but it is worth noting that 7 more excellent videos about Kaman have been uploaded recently.

I suppose that Mr. Steven Kaman—who uploaded those videos—is the son of the late Charles Kaman, the founder of Kaman Aircraft.

 

[TomS]

Something new from Kaman. KARGO seems to be a large quadcopter, quite a departure from the usual intermeshing rotor designs we think of from Kaman.

The KARGO UAV is capable of carrying up to 800 pounds (363 kilograms) of cargo. The vehicle can achieve speeds of 140 miles per hour (225 kilometers per hour) at full loads and 165 miles per hour (265 kilometers per hour) when carrying lighter loads under 600 pounds (272 kilograms). The company also states that the drone has a range of over 500 nautical miles (575 miles; 926 kilometers).

USMC Selects Kaman to Build Logistics Drone Prototype

The United States Marine Corps has chosen Kaman as the winner of its Medium Unmanned Logistics Systems – Air (MULS-A) program.

www.overtdefense.com

 

[TomS]

And from their own website, a few more pics and specs:

 

[yasotay]

Everything about the KARGO is simple and easy to maintain. Kaman has a good working relationship with the USMC and put their experience of using the KMAX extensively in Afghanistan to good use. They took all of the after action reports from the USMC and used it to design the KARGO so that it could be used and maintained in austere environments. Seems very practical to m.

Anyone want to take guesses on how long it takes for the idea to sprout weapons?

 

[allysonca]

I've posted this in a Grumman discussion, but it belongs here as well..... One of my fav's in my collection.....Enjoy!

 

[yasotay]

That looks like it would have been a really fun platform to fly. Lots of rotor offset for maneuverability.

 

[Grey Havoc]

KSA-100 SAVER (Stowable Aircrew Vehicle Escape Rotorseat) (world's first jet-powered autogyro) (1971)

Kaman KSA-100 (1971)- Stowable Aircrew Vehicle Escape Rotorseat (SAVER), a jet-powered gyroplane ejection seat to allow a pilot to fly himself back to safety (one built)

Kaman KSA-100 SAVER: You Only Live Twice.

The Vietnam War was still in full bloom when the US. Navy decided to be really creative about their downed aircrew rescue capabilities. One of the proposals was Kaman’s self-explanatory &#822…

elpoderdelasgalaxias.wordpress.com

 

[RavenOne]

Sadly Kaman is ending K-Max production due to low demand....

Kaman Ending Production Of K-MAX Helicopter | Aviation Week Network

Production of the synchropter is set to end after just 60 aircraft were manufactured.

aviationweek.com

cheers

 

[TomS]

Sadly Kaman is ending K-Max production due to low demand....

Kaman Ending Production Of K-MAX Helicopter | Aviation Week Network

Production of the synchropter is set to end after just 60 aircraft were manufactured.

aviationweek.com

cheers

I'm shocked they reached 60. Mostly for logging?

 

[TomS]

Here's another SH-2 variant I've never seen before (and can't find on the site):

Source (AvGeekery) says it was a UH-2B converted by the Army to this compound configuration with the wings and a J85 turbojet on one side only. Supposedly reached 224 mph. The source also says this was Tomahawk, but I thought the H-2 Tomahawk was the armed gunship for the Army (video above). Possibly both parts of trials for an ultimate version with both gunship armament and the compound wing/jet configuration?

 

[Hood]

That would be the NUH-2B which had the wings from a Beechcraft Queen Air.

 

[thanos.massias]

Here's another SH-2 variant I've never seen before (and can't find on the site):

Source (AvGeekery) says it was a UH-2B converted by the Army to this compound configuration with the wings and a J85 turbojet on one side only. Supposedly reached 224 mph. The source also says this was Tomahawk, but I thought the H-2 Tomahawk was the armed gunship for the Army (video above). Possibly both parts of trials for an ultimate version with both gunship armament and the compound wing/jet configuration?

View attachment 703232

Some footage of it starts at 5:03

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQTrUdiFxPs&t=303s

 

[Guy Freeman]

Unknown Helicopter Slide

Good Day All -

Any ideas what helicopter this is?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/35mm-Kodachrome-Helicopter-Slide-Unknown-EXPERIMENTAL-HELO-N268B-in-June-1958/273632737598?hash=item3fb5c8393e:g:vscAAOSw-sVcKVN3

Enjoy the Day! Mark

The K-17. It used a piped thrust through the rotor blade tip. There was no direct drive or a transmission. It was extremely loud. (My Dad worked at Kaman for 40 years. I saw that fly at a Family Day event, probably 1959 or 1960.) It was a research platform and purely experimental.

 

[Stargazer]

I'm shocked they reached 60. Mostly for logging?

The K-MAX (which deserves a topic of its own as it is certainly NOT a project!) has also been impressed in U.S. Marine Corps service as the CQ-24A.

 

[yasotay]

The K-MAX certainly was used to good effect in Afghanistan. I believe the USMC continued to experiment with it after leaving that operation. I suspect that the reason it was not brought into operational service is the limited range in consideration to the vast distances of the Pacific area.

 

[Mark Nankivil]

The K-MAX (which deserves a topic of its own as it is certainly NOT a project!) has also been impressed in U.S. Marine Corps service as the CQ-24A.

The crew chief for one of the K-Maxes I photographed (N312KA) was in Afganhstan with the CQ-24A and spoke well of it in service.

 

[TomS]

The K-MAX (which deserves a topic of its own as it is certainly NOT a project!) has also been impressed in U.S. Marine Corps service as the CQ-24A.

The latest developments may count as projects, since they are basically using a pair of K-Maxes to test enhanced autonomous flight systems for future UAS:

How Kaman's unmanned K-Max helicopter is getting smarter

Kaman’s unmanned K-Max helicopter is getting an autonomy upgrade that will allow it to actively sense and respond to its surroundings without relying on a human operator.

verticalmag.com

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TzoxFzTSHs

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTUZZ8ggrlo

 

[Richard N]

Interview with a K-Max

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3mayQ_AiJk