Kaiserliche Marine - Imperial German Navy Ship Plans/Discussion

[drwells42]

Do you have drawings of the L class designs? Especially the L-20 Alpha?

Hi Tzoli.

Something like this?

DRW

 

[Tzoli]

Yep!
Do you have drawings of the other variants as well?

 

[drwells42]

Yep!
Do you have drawings of the other variants as well?

Some of them, though some seem to be poorly identified in my files. Here's L20B.

DRW

 

[drwells42]

Yep!
Do you have drawings of the other variants as well?

I think this is L20e.

DRW

 

[drwells42]

Yep!
Do you have drawings of the other variants as well?

Might be L20e-alpha

 

[Tzoli]

Thanks!
Other L series?

 

[drwells42]

Thanks!
Other L series?

Not much. Just a couple of L24, but that's it.

 

[drwells42]

Not much. Just a couple of L24, but that's it.

L24a. That's the end of my supply.

DRW

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

@Tzoli @drwells42
I believe I downloaded L-class plans at some point before deployment 8 months ago. I'd have to whip out my laptop, which I do not have on me right now, so see for sure...I'm at least rather positive I do.

Give me a day or two and I'll see what I can get to you.

 

[Tzoli]

That will be great. I thought I had too drawings of the L class but only one old lower quality line drawing which was made decades ago. The GK Series I had downloaded from the The Dreadnought Project page.

 

[Pirate Pete]

Although they are not original German archive material, many years ago I made copies from a book about German First World War Capital ship projects…
“Deutsche Grosskampfschiffe 1915-1918”
by Friedrich Forstmeir and Siegfried Breyer.

 

[gollevainen]

isent this like piratism?

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

That will be great. I thought I had too drawings of the L class but only one old lower quality line drawing which was made decades ago. The GK Series I had downloaded from the The Dreadnought Project page.

I checked my laptop today. While I did download a bunch of new and good plans, I don't have anything more than what's already been provided for the L20s here already, very unfortunately.

 

[Tzoli]

Do you have drawings of the later WW1 capital ship classes turrets?

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

This is what Michael sent me long ago. I've been using it for ideas on my E.Y. My E.Y model will retain its casemate guns, though.

DRW


Thus isn't so bad. Nicely done.


Do you have drawings of the later WW1 capital ship classes turrets?

I'll check tomorrow, I found a couple turret plans that aren't in the drive. There's also a Warship International that has the 42cm turret dimensions, but it's literally just an upscaled 38cm.

 

[Torsionbar]

William II's fast battleship design competition series.
STÖRTEBECKER II is B&V's follow-up design.

 

[Tzoli]

When these fast bb's proposed?

 

[gollevainen]

Most of them have quite good level plans in Bundesarchive, thought scattered around randomly in folders. Those attachments atleast are from Warship International, from Dirk Nottleman's series about IGN. capital ships trought several articles, very good read to all who are intressed of the subject.

 

[alexi]

Most of them have quite good level plans in Bundesarchive, thought scattered around randomly in folders. Those attachments atleast are from Warship International, from Dirk Nottleman's series about IGN. capital ships trought several articles, very good read to all who are intressed of the subject.

If you don't mind can you provide the full sources? i can get those readings on jstor.
Also am glad my random guess on STÖRTEBECKER II fast battleship shipyard designer was Blohm und Voss, their ship stern design are easy to recognize.

 

[gollevainen]

Aa cant rememmber which article run trough which volume out of spot, but I try to dig the spesific volume later in the evening when i got more time

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

When these fast bb's proposed?

I was thinking that due to the various elements used in the designs that this is between 1905-1910, about 1907/08 I'd wager.

 

[Tzoli]

I've suspected as such. Around 1906/07, likely leading to the first German Battlecruiser the Von de Tann?

 

[gollevainen]

They mostly orgins from the Willy's private prize-competion for the shipyards, from may 1906-january 1907. The competition and its relevance to other german capital ship construction is covered in the Dirk Nottleman's article, From Ironclads to Dreadnoughts: The Development of the German Navy 1864-1918: Part VII: "Political Enforcements" That is published in Warship international Vol 53, No.2 (june 2016). As quick summary, this whole competition was part of Wilhelms long lasting fixation of the fast battleship or "combined" large-cruiser/battleship type, and the designs itself had little to nothing to do with the actuall Naval staff process to design Von Der Tann, despite the curious similarities between the competition winner and the actuall ship.

 

[alexi]

The project 3 kinda like proto-Bismarck, i like it minus that weird icebreaker bow.

 

[Roodbaard1958!]

When these fast bb's proposed?

Harald Fock published in Marine Rundschau 1977a series of articles dealing with the prize-competition includin scetches (edition June)

 

[Torsionbar]

I've suspected as such. Around 1906/07, likely leading to the first German Battlecruiser the Von de Tann?

RMA opposed this competition and did not trust the shipyard's calculations, so these drafts had no chance to be built.

 

[Torsionbar]

If you don't mind can you provide the full sources? i can get those readings on jstor.
Also am glad my random guess on STÖRTEBECKER II fast battleship shipyard designer was Blohm und Voss, their ship stern design are easy to recognize.

WI 2016

 

[Tzoli]

I mean when these desigs were ORIGINALLY proposed? 1905? 06? 07?

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

I mean when these desigs were ORIGINALLY proposed? 1905? 06? 07?

Unless I am misreading what you are asking for, I believe gollevainen said they were created for a competition made by the Kaiser lasting from May 1906 - January 1907. Since trust in the shipyards was low, and their calculations under doubt as a result, none of the ships went beyond a very basic design phase.
Stortebecker II I know for certain has a plan dated 1907 in the Archives.

 

[alexi]

Nec Temere large armored cruiser is dated 1905 according to invenio, the competition must have started earlier than i expected.

 

[Tzoli]

William II's fast battleship design competition series.
STÖRTEBECKER II is B&V's follow-up design.

Are the Blohm @ Voss, Schichau-Werke and AG Vulcan designs are separate from the data table's 8 designs or these are these shipyard's offers to those projects?

 

[Torsionbar]

Are the Blohm @ Voss, Schichau-Werke and AG Vulcan designs are separate from the data table's 8 designs or these are these shipyard's offers to those projects?

I have currently found 4 designs, Schichau、Vulcan and Wilhelmshaven designs are the same as in the table，but B&V's STÖRTEBECKER II is separate from the table. Although Weser won the competition, William preferred B&V, which led to the emergence of the more powerful STÖRTEBECKER II in 1907.

 

[gollevainen]

Here is a sort of preliminary for the 1916 grosses torpedoboot, that I found while back from the invenio. Since I decided not to draw it to my Shipbucket vanity projects this time, I liked to share it to you. The actual file was really poorly lighted so i adjusted the curves little bit to get more out of it.

​

 

[COLDOWN]

Hello, I wanted to ask if you could recommend any book or online archive on German battleship designs, preferably from the first decade of the 20th century (1908-1911).
I am investigating the negotiations between German companies (Blohm & Voss, Germaniawerf, Schichau, Vulcan, Weser, etc.) with Argentina or Brazil; and although I have details of some of the proposals, I have not yet been able to find all the schemes.

In particular, I am obsessed to find a proposal for battleships for Argentina by Blohm & Voss, offered circa July 1909 and called "Design G." Its characteristics were:
- Displacement: 20,165.
- Medium draft: 8.1 meters.
- Power: ~24,500 hp.
- Machinery: Turbines.
- Speed: 22.0-20.5 ks.
- Belt: 230 mm.
- Main guns: 15 (5x3) 305mm/50cs.
- Secondary guns: 12 (12x1) 152mm/50cs.
- Tertiary guns: 12 (12x1) 75mm/50cs.
- Torpedo launchers: 4 (4x1) ~533mm tt.

Thank you very much for your attention. regards.

 

[Wurger]

Hello, I wanted to ask if you could recommend any book or online archive on German battleship designs, preferably from the first decade of the 20th century (1908-1911).
I am investigating the negotiations between German companies (Blohm & Voss, Germaniawerf, Schichau, Vulcan, Weser, etc.) with Argentina or Brazil; and although I have details of some of the proposals, I have not yet been able to find all the schemes.

In particular, I am obsessed to find a proposal for battleships for Argentina by Blohm & Voss, offered circa July 1909 and called "Design G." Its characteristics were:
- Displacement: 20,165.
- Medium draft: 8.1 meters.
- Power: ~24,500 hp.
- Machinery: Turbines.
- Speed: 22.0-20.5 ks.
- Belt: 230 mm.
- Main guns: 15 (5x3) 305mm/50cs.
- Secondary guns: 12 (12x1) 152mm/50cs.
- Tertiary guns: 12 (12x1) 75mm/50cs.
- Torpedo launchers: 4 (4x1) ~533mm tt.

Thank you very much for your attention. regards.

Although a fascinating subject, I believe this to be in another thread, not on a Kriegsmarine one. Hochseeflotte should do the trick.

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

I don't want to discourage talk about the HSF/Kaiserliche Marine since we have talked about it before, but to be honest @COLDOWN I do not have many sources on that era. Not anything that might help you find more information on this Design G you're referring to, unfortunately. If I happen to come across it, I'll send what I find to you.

 

[Tzoli]

A separate thread for the Imperial German Navy might be indeed desirable. They had numerous projects as well!

But in the mean time, here is the GK4541 Battlecruiser / Fast Battleship and L20e Battleship designs from 1918:

 

[alexi]

Digitalized files, archives and documents on HSF/Imperial Navy still going fast, am waiting until these get digitalize:
- "Battleship with twin 34cm turret".
- "Fast-battleships, battlecruisers with triple and quadruple turrets" (dated 1918).
- "Study of triple 30.5cm turret".
A fews have been digitalized so far are:
- A 26500 tons pre-design of König-class with 4 triple 30.5cm turrets.
- German Admiralty? logbook on Austrian-Hungarian battleship Tegetthoff including their inspecting, feedback on her triple 30.5 turret (with turret sketches and interiors).
- Sketch of twin and triple 34cm turret, the triple turret print have the description above comparing the placement of twin 30.5cm turret, indicating this was proposed for König-class as well.
- Mackensen-class battlecruiser preliminary designs.
There are other various and scattered files on RM 3/6 and /9 as well, but there too many to put in.

 

[gollevainen]

- Sketch of twin and triple 34cm turret, the triple turret print have the description above comparing the placement of twin 30.5cm turret, indicating this was proposed for König-class as well.

I think these may be from the Mackensen preminaly stages, when the armament options ranged from 30.5cm-38cm and everything between. Only alternative caliber mentioned for the Köning class Ive seen in the publications over the matter is the quriky 32.2cm which I think never actually existed outside theorethical thinking.

 

[Dark728]

Digitalized files, archives and documents on HSF/Imperial Navy still going fast, am waiting until these get digitalize:
- "Battleship with twin 34cm turret".
- "Fast-battleships, battlecruisers with triple and quadruple turrets" (dated 1918).
- "Study of triple 30.5cm turret".
A fews have been digitalized so far are:
- A 26500 tons pre-design of König-class with 4 triple 30.5cm turrets.
- German Admiralty? logbook on Austrian-Hungarian battleship Tegetthoff including their inspecting, feedback on her triple 30.5 turret (with turret sketches and interiors).
- Sketch of twin and triple 34cm turret, the triple turret print have the description above comparing the placement of twin 30.5cm turret, indicating this was proposed for König-class as well.
- Mackensen-class battlecruiser preliminary designs.
There are other various and scattered files on RM 3/6 and /9 as well, but there too many to put in.

Do you have a link to the Mackensen preliminaries?