JGSDF Infantry Combat Vehicle ICV / Mortar Mobile Combat Vehicle MMCV programs

[Grey Havoc]

Some quick background on this, in particular the ICV, via an old post in another thread (note that the info on the Type 16 MCV procurement & deployment may be out of date, there seems to be still some momentum within the MOD/JGSDF on replacing proper tanks on active duty with MCVs according to recent reports). The MMCV is derived from the ICV chassis.

Via JasonJ over at Tank-Net:

View: https://youtu.be/BRB7E4LcxDc

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bttMrinLMAs

(10:32)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8T0qaQ_5To


The production version of the MCV has proven to be disappointing, due in no small part to interference in the program by the Finance ministry. Though the original concept was arguably flawed in that the MCV could have never outright replaced a real tank such as the Type 10. Whatever the case, planned procurement has now been severely cut back to the point where it will equip a single 'Rapid Deployment Regiment' each within seven of the 15 currently operational GSDF Divisions and Brigades.

Apparently the JSDF is so disenchanted with the MCV that work is seemingly already well advanced on a replacement, using an eight wheeled version of the same chassis that the Light-weight Combat Vehicle uses as well as many of the LCV's systems (presumably to save on costs & development time). It in turn shares the same chassis as the new NBC reconnaissance vehicle currently under development (see video below) with a lightweight air transportable APC also being mooted. An illustration of the MCV replacement can be seen on page 10 of this Japanese MOD document.

View: https://youtu.be/zDEkzCYDF3k

Based on the chassis mentioned above, the program was initially known as the CCV (Close Combat Vehicle, Kinsetsu-Sentou-sha), or with alternate designations being the universal combat vehicle (early concept name, I think) and the Future wheeled combat vehicle (Shourai-Sourin-Sentou-Sharyou). The latter name was actually that of the overall MOD program that the CCV was a component of, I believe. The CCV program eventually evolved into the ICV around 2021, or thereabouts. This was after Komatsu pulled out of the CCV program (it was slated to build the prototype and the planned production vehicles) and AFV development & production in general in 2019, primarily due to the Ministry of Finance continuing to jerk them and other defense contractors around, though problems with the 'new LAV' and WAV-In programs were apparently the last straw. When the program became the ICV program with Mitsubishi Heavy Industries now as the prime contractor, they switched to the Type 16 chassis despite the inherent problems.

 

[Grey Havoc]

https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/xqmczm

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/xqmczm/first_look_at_japans_new_wheeled_ifv_and_120mm/


Via the comments thread:

level 2
Hopossum
OP·5 hr. ago

This prototype is using a 30mm Mk44 Bushmaster II. There are rumors that the production vehicle will use Japan's domestic 40mm CT cannon.

Hopossum
OP·4 hr. ago

The entire series follow the Type 16 Mobile Combat Vehicle MCV naming. This is the Infantry Combat Vehicle ICV. The Mortar Mobile Combat Vehicle MMCV is the other one. Once they enter service they will receive a Type designation.

 

[Grey Havoc]

The image linked in the second quote above:

 

[Grey Havoc]

My note in the first post on the recent development history of the CCV/ICV may be off, need to check some sources. That will have to wait until another day though, for I am once again in zombie operating mode!

 

[Grey Havoc]

One thing I forgot about last night in my zombie state is that the CCV concept in general dates back to the 'original' Future Wheeled Combat vehicle program of the early 2000s (back when the MOD was still the JDA). That program was shelved in 2003 due to budgetary concerns, only to be revived later on in the decade (around 2006, though there were funding delays holding up some up things until 2008) in a modified form, this time focusing primarily on development of the LCV (Light Combat Vehicle, which would become in time the Mobile Combat Vehicle and then subsequently the Type 16 Maneuver Combat Vehicle) and CCV elements of the original planned family of vehicles. While the MCV would eventually reach service after prolonged development (thanks to the usual suspects), the original incarnation of the CCV program was canned in 2009 despite a prototype being built and successfully tested, again due to budgetary constraints. The prototype was armed with a domestically developed 40mm CTA cannon (presumably with assistance from CTA International). I believe that MHI was the primary contractor on both projects.

On an interesting note, the original CCV and MCV both used a shared chassis, so the 'new' CCV which now uses the Type 16 chassis could well be said to be a case of the wheel turning full circle.

 

[barrett]

Japan new 40mm CTA machinegun test 2013

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qsum_mJhM9Y

 

[Grey Havoc]

It appears the Future Wheeled Combat vehicle program is now known as the Common Tactical Wheeled Vehicle program.

Japan tests new armored vehicles in bid for common platform

The Defense Ministry confirmed to Defense News that some photos and videos of the vehicles published on social media were prototypes.

www.defensenews.com

The Defense Ministry confirmed to Defense News that some photos and videos of the vehicles published on social media last week were prototypes developed under its Common Tactical Wheeled Vehicle program.

The ministry also confirmed the vehicles are based on the chassis of the eight-wheel drive Type 16 Maneuver Combat Vehicle built by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. The platforms include an infantry combat vehicle, a reconnaissance combat vehicle and a motorized mortar vehicle.

The online media seen by Defense News showed two vehicles accompanied by Japan Ground Self-Defense Force trucks traveling on public roads in the northern part of Kyushu, the southernmost of Japan’s three main islands.

One of these featured a mounted turret with an cannon, believed to be the Bushmaster 30mm automatic weapon based on the weapon’s fluted barrel and muzzle brake. Another vehicle had a flat roof over its rear compartment.

The ministry had awarded Mitsubishi a $16.2 million contract in May 2020 to produce prototypes of each variant, with delivery planned for March 2022.

In previously released specifications, the infantry combat vehicle was to be capable of carrying eight dismounted infantrymen along with three crew, while it was reported the mortar variant was to feature a 120mm weapon.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Patria AMVXP 8x8 vehicle selected by Japan as a new Wheeled Armored Personnel Carrier (WAPC) for Japan Ground Self-Defense Force

Patria AMVXP 8x8 vehicle selected by Japan as a new Wheeled Armored Personnel Carrier (WAPC) for Japan Ground Self-Defense Force | Patria

The Japan Ministry of Defense has announced today that Patria AMVXP 8x8 has been selected for the Japan Ground Self-Defense Force as their next Wheeled Arm

www.patriagroup.com

The Japan Ministry of Defense has announced today that Patria AMVXP 8x8 has been selected for the Japan Ground Self-Defense Force as their next Wheeled Armored Personnel Carrier 8x8 vehicle under the WAPC programme. The selection includes manufacturing licence of the vehicles in Japan, with a solid contribution to the local economy and technology development securing the supply and service in Japan. The Patria AMVXP 8x8 vehicles will be replacing the Type-96 8x8 Armored Personnel Carrier vehicles which are currently in service by Japan Ground Self-Defense Force.

This is likely to put yet another cat among the pigeons. As if things weren't complicated enough already.

 

[Maro.Kyo]

Patria AMVXP 8x8 vehicle selected by Japan as a new Wheeled Armored Personnel Carrier (WAPC) for Japan Ground Self-Defense Force

Patria AMVXP 8x8 vehicle selected by Japan as a new Wheeled Armored Personnel Carrier (WAPC) for Japan Ground Self-Defense Force | Patria

The Japan Ministry of Defense has announced today that Patria AMVXP 8x8 has been selected for the Japan Ground Self-Defense Force as their next Wheeled Arm

www.patriagroup.com

The Japan Ministry of Defense has announced today that Patria AMVXP 8x8 has been selected for the Japan Ground Self-Defense Force as their next Wheeled Armored Personnel Carrier 8x8 vehicle under the WAPC programme. The selection includes manufacturing licence of the vehicles in Japan, with a solid contribution to the local economy and technology development securing the supply and service in Japan. The Patria AMVXP 8x8 vehicles will be replacing the Type-96 8x8 Armored Personnel Carrier vehicles which are currently in service by Japan Ground Self-Defense Force.

This is likely to put yet another cat among the pigeons. As if things weren't complicated enough already.

I'm also fairly surprised as well that JGSDF chose a foreign product over a domestic one, whatever the reason might be.

 

[Pioneer]

Patria AMVXP 8x8 vehicle selected by Japan as a new Wheeled Armored Personnel Carrier (WAPC) for Japan Ground Self-Defense Force

Patria AMVXP 8x8 vehicle selected by Japan as a new Wheeled Armored Personnel Carrier (WAPC) for Japan Ground Self-Defense Force | Patria

The Japan Ministry of Defense has announced today that Patria AMVXP 8x8 has been selected for the Japan Ground Self-Defense Force as their next Wheeled Arm

www.patriagroup.com

The Japan Ministry of Defense has announced today that Patria AMVXP 8x8 has been selected for the Japan Ground Self-Defense Force as their next Wheeled Armored Personnel Carrier 8x8 vehicle under the WAPC programme. The selection includes manufacturing licence of the vehicles in Japan, with a solid contribution to the local economy and technology development securing the supply and service in Japan. The Patria AMVXP 8x8 vehicles will be replacing the Type-96 8x8 Armored Personnel Carrier vehicles which are currently in service by Japan Ground Self-Defense Force.

This is likely to put yet another cat among the pigeons. As if things weren't complicated enough already.

I'm also fairly surprised as well that JGSDF chose a foreign product over a domestic one, whatever the reason might be.

I think it speaks very loudly about the failings of legacy countries to design, build and field 'practical and workable' platforms/systems like an APC/ICV/MCV's, let alone being able to export them.

Regards
Pioneer

 

[Maro.Kyo]

I think it speaks very loudly about the failings of legacy countries to design, build and field 'practical and workable' platforms/systems like an APC/ICV/MCV's, let alone being able to export them.

Regards
Pioneer

I've heard that cost was a major advantage the Patria had over MAV, though JGSDF until now have been procuring Japanese gears that have significantly inferior cost-performance factor compared to its foreign counterparts for the sake of domestic industry. Even then the profit margins were extremely slim, if it exists in the first place and their private sector are pulling out of defense industry all together, a good example being Komatsu on their ground defense sector.

This, coupled with their major shift in defense doctrine pdobably means that they are not going to fund these over-priced domestic JGSDF equipments anymore.

 

[Maro.Kyo]

So it seems like there are 3 different types of wheeled armored vehicle programs in the JGSDF right now. As @Grey Havoc has described, all 3 of them are part of the Future Wheeled Combat Vehicle/Common Tactical Wheeled Vehicle program. Though since they went with Patria AMV instead of Mitsubishi MAV, the "common" part is less persistent nke.

The first program of the FWCV is Type 16. Then there's the Future Wheeled Armored Vehicle which resulted in Patria AMV. Currently JGSDF has only confirmed the replacement of wheeled vehicles like the Type 96 and 82 with the Patria AMX model. The tracked Type 73 APC also needs a replacement, but more to that later.

The last one is Close Quarter Combat Vehicle (or as Grey Havoc translated, the CCV), which will replace Type 87 and 89 and fulfill the armed-recon and IFV role respectively. It is currently unknown if the CQCV will be based on Type 16 or Patria AMX. There's also a new tracked vehicle called the Common Tactical Tracked Vehicle. This is based on the new tracked chasis which was revealed as an upgrade for Type 89. Although they say it's based on Type 89 chasis, it seems fairly different from the original platform. The CTTV was supposed to be the replacement for Type 73 and various other tracked vehicles of JGSDF, but there's a possibility that they've shifted the program to wheeled platforms following doctrinal changes.

If CTTV is alive, it will become a new baseline tracked platform of the JGSDF, which will consist of APC + variants based on it and the CQCV. If it's dead, then it's safe to assume that Type 73 and other currently tracked vehicles will be replace by Patria AMX and that the CQCV will also be wheeled.

@helmutkohl

 

[Maro.Kyo]

CTTV from last year and before (the prototype in 4th picture is the alleged Type 73 replacement model):




In the last foto, the vehicle behind is Type 89 turret atop the CTTV.

 

[Maro.Kyo]

CQCV candidate prototype based on Type 16/MAV. Spotted September this year:

 

[Maro.Kyo]

Procurement budget for Common Tactical Armored Vehicle based on Type 16/MAV for CQCV (24) has been formally issued alongside CTAV mortar variant (8) and additional procurement of Type 16 (19).

 

[Noveos]

Anyone have any more information on the SAM vehicle on the bottom left? Thanks.

 

[Maro.Kyo]

Anyone have any more information on the SAM vehicle on the bottom left? Thanks.

I don't knw where that screen shot comes from, but the SAM system itself is the 基地防空用地対空誘導弾（改）/新近距離地対空誘導弾 (Basecamp Defence SAM (kai)/New SHORAD) under development that will complement the in-use Type 11 (could be the case that they use a mixed-missile battery for Type 11 Kai) and replace Type 81 as well as Type 93.

Current Type 11 uses an ARH missile, and this new SAM/effector would be IR seeker based. I'm not sure if MoD is officially considering a MMCV/WAV based version, but I could definitely see that happening.

 

[Noveos]

I don't knw where that screen shot comes from, but the SAM system itself is the 基地防空用地対空誘導弾（改）/新近距離地対空誘導弾 (Basecamp Defence SAM (kai)/New SHORAD) under development that will complement the in-use Type 11 (could be the case that they use a mixed-missile battery for Type 11 Kai) and replace Type 81 as well as Type 93.

Current Type 11 uses an ARH missile, and this new SAM/effector would be IR seeker based. I'm not sure if MoD is officially considering a MMCV/WAV based version, but I could definitely see that happening.

I was definitely a bit confused when it said Type 81, even though it didn't look anything like it at all. Thanks for clearing it up. I'm surprised they want to replace the Type 11 already.

I got the image from here:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1342745598772965376

View: https://x.com/MeYkikka/status/1342745598772965376

 

[Maro.Kyo]

I'm surprised they want to replace the Type 11 already.

Although Japanese wiki page and some of the news articles online mention it as a "replacement" to the Type 11, since it's named 改, I assume that they will concurrently operate both effectors (the in-use ARH missile and new IR missile) on shat is essentially a same battery. Tgere could be some other possibilities, but anyway, not really a "replacement" per se.

 

[Kota]

Anyone have any more information on the SAM vehicle on the bottom left? Thanks.

This is an old render back from the Future Combat Vehicle program that was originally being handled by Komatsu. Mitsubishi has taken over, but isn't creating a complete set along with JSW taking over part with AMV production.

Although Japanese wiki page and some of the news articles online mention it as a "replacement" to the Type 11, since it's named 改, I assume that they will concurrently operate both effectors (the in-use ARH missile and new IR missile) on shat is essentially a same battery. Tgere could be some other possibilities, but anyway, not really a "replacement" per se.

Type 11 isn't getting replaced since the 2024 white paper mentions restarting Type 11 production. The Type 81 and Type 93 are both beginning retirement from next year with the new shorad system replacing the Type 81 in ASDF and GSDF service and also replacing the Type 93s attached to the RDRs and amphibious units.