Italian Little Known Light Aircraft

[hesham]

What was those ?,

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/libri/PDF_Libri_By_AVIA/Marinai-in-volo.pdf

 

[hesham]

here is a Beltrame Colibri tail-first canard light aircraft of 1938,from Jane's All
the World's Aircraft 1938.

From Ailes 16/11/1962,

a 3-view.

 

[Apophenia]

What was those ?,

The sketch on the left was Mario Calderara idealized notion of a seaplane (in contrast with the heavily-strutted, triple-pontooned idrovolante that he actually built).

The 'Elicottero Marchetti 1912' is obvious but I'm not sure about that date. I suspect this to be Marchetti's contentious 1922 freelance design for a Regia Marina observation helicopter.

 

[hesham]

Maybe that was right my dear Apophenia.

 

[Apophenia]

here is a Beltrame Colibri tail-first canard light aircraft ...

Perhaps appropriately for such a small airplane, Milan-based Quito Beltrame was best known for producing flying models - as the Fabbrica Italiana Aeromodelli Quito Bertrame.

BTW, photo 2 in Reply #9 was taken at the 1937 Milan Fair - Salone internazionale aeronautico. This display was listed as a " Modello dell'areo "Colibrì" ... which I assume to mean a mockup: http://www.lombardiabeniculturali.it/fotografie/schede/IMM-u3010-0003703/

 

[hesham]

From Ali RSI 1944,

what was this ?.

 

[ermeio]

The second page excerpt is not related to the 3-view, it seems only a request to the editor to endorse the enrollment of the young man in the pilot academy.

 

[hesham]

A 3-view to CNA.15 and CNA.25.

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Ala%20d'Italia/L'ALA%20D'ITALIA%201935%20010.pdf

Unfortunately this company and it's designation number was completely a mystery ?,I know they produced several other
aircraft,but no-sense for this series ?.

 

[Apophenia]

Unfortunately this company and it's designation number was completely a mystery ?,I know they produced several other
aircraft,but no-sense for this series ?.

The CNA corporate history is a little convoluted but not really a mystery.

CNA aircraft designs were originally given Greek letter names - Beta, Delta, Eta, Teta (Italian for Theta), ... but they don't seem to be in order (I can't find alfa, gamma, or zeta). In 1935, designations shift to numerals - the CNA 15 and CNA 25 that you've mentioned. Then there is the distinct PM-1 of 1939/'40 (standing for Politecnico di Milano). CNA's original aircraft developments all seem to be experimental types built under contract to the Ministero dell’Aeronautica. CNA also developed a range of series production engines (with numerical designations prefixed by 'C') for light aircraft.

The corporate identity changed often. CNA was established in 1920 by il conte Giovanni Bonmartini but it existed under a number of names. The earliest incarnation was the Cooperativa Nazionale Aeronautica of March 1920 relating to the flying school at Rome (Cerveteri). In late November 1921, the firm becomes the Compagnia di Navigazione Aerea. Then, in 1922, another renaming for a joint venture with Ing Giovanni Pegna - the Costruzione Navali Aeronautsche.

Costruzione Navali Aeronautsche projects were the unbuilt multi-rotor Elicottero and Leonardo da Vinci (16-engined transatlantic idrovolante); the 1923 Pegna Bonmartini P.B.N. 4-engined (push-pull) biplane (aka Piaggio P.3); the 1923 single-seat ultralight Pegna-Bonmartini Rondine ('Swallow', aka CNA PB Rondine, Piaggio P.1); the unbuilt 2-seat Pegna-Bonmartini Rondone ('Swift', 45 hp Anzani); the built Pegna-Bonmartini Rondone Tipo 2; and the Caccia Pegna (aka Piaggio P.2). See: https://modellismoitalia.altervista.org/pegna-bonmartini/

The final rebranding occurred after Pegna and Bonmartini parted ways. CNA then stood for the Compagnia Nazionale Aeronautica. In 1934 Bonmartini sold CNA to Caproni. Small-scale series production began of Caproni Ca.100s (1935-1937) and SAIMAN 202s (1940-1941). This was a fairly small operation - total production of all types by CNA was only 188 airframes.

Original Designs built by the Compagnia Nazionale Aeronautica

CNA Beta - 193? (??) no other details
- Beta: 1 x 170-180 hp CNA C.7 9-cylinder radial engine

CNA Delta - 1931 trimotor low-winged passenger monoplane
- CNA Delta: 2-4 passengers, optional postal aircraft
3 x 90 hp Fiat A.50 radials, alt: 138 hp A.54, 160 hp CNA C.7
- CNA Delta: Mixed construction (wood & fabric-covered steel-tube
-- http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/2a768858-e3d9-4cf3-9c30-1fe7f08dd3ad.jpg

CNA Eta - 1933 1-or-2-seat parasol-winged lightplane, x 1*
- CNA Eta: Tandem or solo seat, landplane or on floats
- CNA Eta: (Orig.) 1 x 180 hp CNA C.7 9-cylinder radial
-- Single-seat float Eta FAI C.II altitude record, 8,411 m
-- Single-seat land Eta FAI C.II altitude record, 10,008 m
- CNA Eta: (Mod.) 1 x 150 hp CNA C.VI 6-cyl., span 10.00 m
-- 2-seat float Eta FAI C.I 100 km circuit record, 192.62 km/h
-- * Some sources say x 2 (more likely same airframe modified)
-- http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/law1/eta/eta-1.jpg
-- http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/law1/eta/eta-2.jpg

CNA 2* Merah - 1934 2-seat low-wing monoplane, x 1
- CNA 2 Merah: 1 x (??) hp CNA (type?) engine, span (??) m
-- * See hesham's reply #82

CNA Teta - 1933 tandem 2-seat, single-engined light biplane
- Teta: Radial engine, poss. highly mod. Breda Ba.25 (??)
- Teta: (??) No other details

CNA 15 - 1935 4-seat cantilever low-winged sportsplane
- CNA 15: Designed specif. for Littorio sports a/c races
- CNA 15: Parallel development to high-wing CNA 25 (qv)
- CNA 15: 1 x 150 hp CNA C-VI IRC.43 6-cyl., span 11.78 m
-- 1937, turbocharger increased ceiling to 9,000 metres
-- CNA 15 MM307 to Luigi Tonegutti (Verona) 1939, I-VIVI

CNA 25 - 1935 4-seat cantilever high-winged sportsplane
- CNA 25: Parallel development to low-winged CNA 15 (qv)
- CNA 25: 1 x 150 hp CNA C-VI IRC.43 6-cyl., span 11.78 m
- CNA 25: Lower-performing CNA 25 not further developed
- 3v: http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/law1/cna25/cna25-1.gif

CNA PM.1 - (Politecnico di Milano) 1939 student lightplane, x 1*
- PM.1: 2-seat cabin a/c with a cantilever high-wing monoplane
- PM.1: Designed for a student competition, design begun 1938
- PM.1: 1 x 60 hp CNA D.4 air-cooled HO4 engine , span 10.60 m
- PM.1: Plywood-covered wooden airframe, side-by-side seating
-- Assigned reg. I-ACGM in 1940 by Ministero dell’Aeronautica
-- * Aug 1942 order x 10, airframes destroyed by bombing July 1943
-- By the PM's Instituto di Construzioni Aeronautische del Regio

Does anyone have more on CNA aircraft?

 

[hesham]

Amazing answer dear Apophenia,

and the Merah was a light aircraft as I know.

 

[hesham]

From, Italian Civil and Military Aircraft 1930-1945

 

[Apophenia]

From, Italian Civil and Military Aircraft 1930-1945

Thanks for that hesham. I've added those detail to my list. I had the spelling wrong ... but I still have absolutely no idea what merah means

 

[hesham]

I don't know also,and please add the details of Beta,I sent it with Merah.

 

[Apophenia]

hesham: About adding those Beta details, there's a handful of suspect things about your Italian Civil and Military Aircraft, 1930-1945 snippet ...

- The "single-engined two-seat high-wing monoplane" also matches the Eta.
-- Could just be coincidence, or Beta led to Eta ... but see FAI records below.

- The CNA C.7 was a 9-cylinder radial of 170-180 hp (not a "seven-cylinder radial of 200 h.p.")

- Dating the CNA Beta to 1932 puts it a year later than the more complex Delta.
-- This is possible (since there seems to have been no strict ordering) but is it likely?

- "The Beta set several international records, piloted by Renato Donati and Furio Niclot."
-- And yet, the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale website has no such records listed.

A search of the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale website for Renato Donati returns 4 x FAI records. They are:

C.I - 20 Jan 1930, Fiat AS.1 (Fiat A.50) - Closed Circuit (2,746.20 km)
- Light 2-seat landplane, with Gino Capannini

C.I - 20 Feb 1932, Fiat AS.1 (Fiat A.50) - Altitude (6,782 m)
- Light 2-seat landplane, with Gino Capannini

C.I - 30 Dec 1932, Fiat AS.1CNA (CNA C.7) - Altitude (9,282 m)
- Light 2-seat landplane, with Gino Capannini

C - 11 Apr 1934, Caproni 114 (Bristol Mercury) - Altitude (14,433 m)
- Light single-seat landplane

A similar search for Furio Niclot returns 9 x FAI records. They are:

C.bis I - 28 Dec 1933, Fiat AS.1 (CNA C.7) - Altitude (7,362 m)
- Light 2-seat floatplane, with Mariano Lanciani

C.bis II - 06 Nov 1932, CNA Eta (CNA C.7) - Altitude (8,411 m)
- Light single-seat floatplane

C.I - 24 Dec 1933, CNA Eta (CNA C.7) - Altitude (10,008 m)
- Light single-seat landplane

C - 01 Apr 1937, Breda 88 (Isotta-Fraschini) - Speed over 100 km (517.84 km/h)

C - 10 Apr 1937, Breda 88 (Isotta-Fraschini) - Speed over 1,000 km (475.55 km/h)

C - 05 Dec 1937, Breda 88 (Piaggio P.XI RC) - Speed over 100 km (554.36 km/h)

C - 09 Dec 1937, Breda 88 (Piaggio P.XI RC) - Speed over 1,000 km (524.19 km/h)

C - 09 Dec 1937, Breda 88 (Piaggio P.XI RC) - Speed over 1,000 km/500 kg (524.19 km/h)

C - 09 Dec 1937, Breda 88 (Piaggio P.XI RC) - Speed over 1,000 km/1,000 kg (524.19 km/h)

So, did J. W. Thompson just get it wrong on the Beta? Or did he conflate Beta with Eta? Did he fail to check FAI listings? With such 'question marks' hanging, I am unsure as to how to proceed

 

[hesham]

My dear Apophenia,

the Beta had high-wing,the Eta had parasol high wing,there is no relationship between them.

 

[Apophenia]

the Beta had high-wing,the Eta had parasol high wing,there is no relationship between them.

Thanks hesham. Have you seen an image of the Beta?

 

[hesham]

No dear Apophenia.

 

[woodville]

Hi,
Here are the entries from Janes 1932 & 1934 for CNA. The photo from 1932 shows the Teta along with Delta

 

[hesham]

For Magni.

 

[hesham]

This designer created 6 airplanes and one Project;

Aristide Faccioli, born in Bologna in 1848 and died in Turin in 1920, was one of the pioneers of Italian aeronautics. In 1909, in the plant of the Piemontese Automobili SPA in Corso Ferrucci 122 in Turin, he designed and built the first entirely Italian aircraft. The test flight that took place over the meadows of the Mirafiori field - on January 13, 1909 - ended in an unhappy way; the aircraft, piloted by Mario Faccioli, son of the designer, was damaged on landing, probably due to the lack of experience of the pilot himself. The aircraft - after modifications and repairs - continued its flights from June 1909 to February 1910 on the Piazza d'Armi in Venaria Reale. After this aircraft, other models were built and tested by Faccioli in biplane, triplane and monoplane configurations. Eng. Aristide Faccioli did not have a happy life: he lost his son in a flight accident in 1915 and, in 1920, tried by discouragement and disappointments, he took his own life.

Primo volo di FACCIOLI

13 gennaio 1909: Ippodromo di Mirafiori: Primo volo di un aeroplano costruito in Italia. Aristide Faccioli, nato a Bologna nel 1848 e morto a Torino nel 1920 fu uno dei pionieri dell’aeronautica it…

gavs-torino.com

 

[hesham]

and here is a strange concepts for a designer,maybe called Crocco,
the lower two,I don't know if they was a airplanes or not ?.

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Ala%20d'Italia/L'ALA%20D'ITALIA%201930%2001.pdf

They were a real airplanes,and from the same source,the
Crocco aircraft in details.

 

[Apophenia]

The Crocco-Guidoni was a telebomba or gyroscopic-guided glide-bomb. It was designed in 1917 by two Italian military engineers - Gaetano Crocco and Alessandro Guidoni (the latter after whom Guidonia was posthumously named).

-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/italian-guided-torpedoes-of-ww-ii.30924/

 

[hesham]

Hi,

here is a two Italian airplanes,one for Cabinaire biplane of 1929,and a Cadelli twin
boom monoplane,the later maybe remained a Project.

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www.avia-it.com

For the twin-boom one,translate;

CADELLI CARLO - Aeronautics scholar born in
Trieste in 1860, After long studies, he presented at the Turin International Air Locomotion Exhibition in 1914 the drawings of an apparatus called "Rational Airplane" whose project underwent some essential modifications over the years, but which could not be built due to the invasion of Veneto in 1917 (C. was a resident of Pordenone); he lost everything he had.
He has published: Aeroplane rational (Graphic Arts of Pordenone); From aerostatic to large ascents height (in L'Aeronautica, 1898, Milan); Aeronautical digressions (in La Patria del Friuli, Udine 1911); The Rational Airplane (in Aeronautica, Milan 1929) ; as well as several other articles published in Il Taghamento and an issue published on the occasion
of the inauguration of the Campo dell Comisa (1910).

 

[hesham]

Here is the OSA-135;

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www.avia-it.com

http://www.giemmesesto.org/Documentazione/Aerei/Osa135.html

So weird ?,what were those ?,

OSA (Italy) — Officina Sommese Aeronautica produced several light aircraft in the 1930s. The most notable being the OSA.135 side-by-side low-wing cabin tourer with a 130-hp “Alpha 110/1” in January 1937.

 

[hesham]

In my files,

Pomilio designed aircraft called "Delta",is that right,and what was it ?.

 

[hesham]

What was the Alfa Santoni-Franchini Biplane of 1919 ?.

 

[Apophenia]

What was the Alfa Santoni-Franchini Biplane of 1919 ?.

There was a 1910 A.L.F.A. biplane designed by Antonio Santoni and Nino Franchini. Is that the one you meant?

If so, this was a single-engined, pusher, canard biplane. Santoni was the head of A.L.F.A.'s design office. Franchini was a test-driver and mechanic at A.L.F.A. Once built, the biplano was used to showcase the power and reliability of the new A.L.F.A. engine (designed by Giuseppe Merosi). This engine was that from the A.L.F.A. 24HP Corsa racer - a 4 litre, inline 4 cylinder. For aircraft use, output was increased to 36 hp at 1680 rpm and 42 hp at 2200 rpm (although one source claims only 31 hp was generated).

A typical canard biplane of its time, the A.L.F.A. was distinguished by its upturned lower wing tips. Its rear tailplane was in the form of a partially flattened hexagon (enclosing twin, vertical surfaces). The biplano's pilot sat behind the 4-cylinder inline engine which powered twin, shaft-driven pusher propellers. There were narrow-chord, octagonal 'rings' placed in from of those propellers (the latter having the larger diameter). I'm not sure what the function of those 'rings' was intended to be.

In place of the then-usual bamboo struts, Santoni and Franchini employed metal tubing (steel?) intended for making bicycles.

 

[hesham]

So weird ?,what was those ?,

OSA (Italy) — Officina Sommese Aeronautica produced several light aircraft in the 1930s. The most notable being the OSA.135 side-by-side low-wing cabin tourer with a 130-hp “Alpha 110/1” in January 1937.

There was also OSA.200 ?!,who heard about this ?,

Oakland to Ö-UF: Airplane, Aircraft, Aviation Archive Photos

Oakland to Ö-UF airplane/aircraft archive photos, history, specifications and performance data.

www.skytamer.com

List of aircraft (O) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Apophenia]

There was also OSA.200 ?!,who heard about this ?

Is there a reference to this designation (outside of Wikipedia lists, I mean)?

 

[hesham]

There was also OSA.200 ?!,who heard about this ?

Is there a reference to this designation (outside of Wikipedia lists, I mean)?

I am afraid not,but please look to reply # 64,the company built many
light aircraft ?.

 

[riggerrob]

here is a Beltrame Colibri tail-first canard light aircraft of 1938,from Jane's All
the World's Aircraft 1938.

From Ailes 16/11/1962,

a 3-view.

Cute!
At first glance, it looks like it suffered the same balance problems as most early canards because the center-of-gravity looks to be too far aft.

 

[hesham]

This designer created 6 airplanes and one Project;

Aristide Faccioli, born in Bologna in 1848 and died in Turin in 1920, was one of the pioneers of Italian aeronautics. In 1909, in the plant of the Piemontese Automobili SPA in Corso Ferrucci 122 in Turin, he designed and built the first entirely Italian aircraft. The test flight that took place over the meadows of the Mirafiori field - on January 13, 1909 - ended in an unhappy way; the aircraft, piloted by Mario Faccioli, son of the designer, was damaged on landing, probably due to the lack of experience of the pilot himself. The aircraft - after modifications and repairs - continued its flights from June 1909 to February 1910 on the Piazza d'Armi in Venaria Reale. After this aircraft, other models were built and tested by Faccioli in biplane, triplane and monoplane configurations. Eng. Aristide Faccioli did not have a happy life: he lost his son in a flight accident in 1915 and, in 1920, tried by discouragement and disappointments, he took his own life.

Primo volo di FACCIOLI

13 gennaio 1909: Ippodromo di Mirafiori: Primo volo di un aeroplano costruito in Italia. Aristide Faccioli, nato a Bologna nel 1848 e morto a Torino nel 1920 fu uno dei pionieri dell’aeronautica it…

gavs-torino.com

Please I want to know if any of these aircraft was a military or not ?.

 

[hesham]

the Piazza (d'Armi) in Venaria Reale,was that mean army ?.

 

[Apophenia]

the Piazza (d'Armi) in Venaria Reale,was that mean army ?.

No. There are any number of Piazzas d'Armi in Italy - the Venaria Reale version being Turin's.

These Piazzas d'Armi are simply public squares named in honour of the Savoy-era army. (You will also see military-related names like Parco Cavalieri - same deal). Mind you, many of those piazzas were also once military parade grounds.

 

[hesham]

Thank you dear Apophenia,

but was that aircraft or the others three airpanes a military or what ?.

 

[iverson]

the Piazza (d'Armi) in Venaria Reale,was that mean army ?.

No. There are any number of Piazzas d'Armi in Italy - the Venaria Reale version being Turin's.

These Piazzas d'rmsArmi are simply public squares named in honour of the Savoy-era army. (You will also see military-related names like Parco Cavalieri - same deal). Mind you, many of those piazzas were also once military parade grounds.

While it does not change the meaning of the phrase ("parade ground") or the explanation, if we are precise, "Armi" is "arms" in Italian, while "army" in English is "ejercito". Marines, sailors, and airmen could also have parade grounds.

 

[dan_inbox]

while "army" in English is "ejercito".

Ejercito is Spanish. Italian is Esercito.

 

[iverson]

while "army" in English is "ejercito".

Ejercito is Spanish. Italian is Esercito.

Oops. Thanks. Dealing with too many languages that are not my own at work these days.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

I think Mr. Nagel was from Germany,but could be also another one had the same
name from Italy ?.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/wobido-nagel-comet-radical-airplane-of-1930.26903/

 

[richard B]

Hi,

I think Mr. Nagel was from Germany,but could be also another one had the smae
name from Italy ?.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/wobido-nagel-comet-radical-airplane-of-1930.26903/

Berlin could be a town in the U.S.A. ; quite common ...