Issue with Political comment

[quellish]

The PM system would ideal for this.
But how motivated the member to make the Politic discussions in PM instead of filling the Forum ?

From what I have seen most of these posts are reacting to something in a post, often initially something of a non-political nature. And those reactionary posts are done without stopping for a second to think whether they should respond/react.

I don’t think people are going to do these kinds of reactionary replies by moving to PMs

 

[CommanderRenHoek]

I do note that passions are overall getting more inflamed lately. Might be coincidental with the current global scene, might not be.

I've mostly given up engaging the worst of them - I find they're only interested in promoting their particular viewpoint/berating their opponent/indulging their edginess; or being smug pseudo-moderators (e.g. if they see an opinion or statement they don't like, they'll call the poster a thread derailer or demand the post be moved elsewhere, even as they gleefully drop equally inflammatory opinions in other threads).

If they're too far gone for productive discussion (its not hard to tell), the "ignore" option is there and I've personally found it helpful.

 

[martinbayer]

The results of the 2020 US presidential elections are now a controversial subject. Proceed from there.

I live in the USA as a resident alien (and oh boy howdy, do I ever embrace that moniker!), but I can honestly say I am not aware of any 2020 election disputes/shenanigans? Please elaborate.

 

[martinbayer]

Scientists in my country are not known for their breakthroughs, but during the 1960s they managed to get a variety of chickens with six thighs incubating eggs in a nuclear reactor....they couldn't reach them.

Please, explain your post, since it honestly reads like you were on some kind of recreational drugs (good ones, I hope) when you typed it.

 

[martinbayer]

The problem, to my opinion, aren‘t really politics in particular. Politics, mostly recent politics, just tend to amplify a problem, that we see in some other themes, too, they actually are pure opinion. And though I cannot say precisely when it started, but the will to tolerate opinions, that are different to the own one, is diminishing at an alarming pace. Not only here, but generally, and from what I see, in most societies worldwide…
Today Voltaire would be just regarded as a naive goon with his well known quotation „Though you disagree with me, I will defend your right to do so to the death“.
Nowadays slogan is „Who don’t agree with me, cannot think logically, or rather, cannot think at all !“. The own opinion is often regarded as sacrosanct, and politics, at least in a way, are pure opinion.
Many, too many people have forgotten, or maybe never learned to accept other opinions, and cannot bear such an offense, as they obviously regard it. And the problem probably is getting worse, because in the past, you often only had the crackerbarrel to launch to the public, what you regarded as the ultimate truth. Now you post it on the internet, and find not only the handful of folks, that see it that way, too, but you‘ll certainly find thousands of „supporters“, and so you are obviously right, aren‘t you ? Well, there’s the old say about flies and shit, remember ?
As said before, here we not only have this problem with politics. For example, the reasons, that the F-35 threads were regularly locked and constantly needed to be cleaned up, were just the same. Quarreling in a way, that reminded me to the Spanish inquisition, about the pros and cons of an aircraft, that still yet, had more or less no opportunities to show it‘s qualities at all …. just opinions and much degraded ability to stand objections.
Don‘t know about the age pattern here, perhaps we can blame our parents ? At least the younger ones, born around and after the 90s perhaps can defend themselves by quoting to be victims of helicopter-parents, who unintentionally made them believe, that they are the hub of the world, the one-and-only, the solution to every problem…. Sorry for the older ones amongst us, we only can refer to our senile stubborness ….

Of course, all I wrote here is just my opinion !

Hello Jemiba, as a stubborn ornery German born and bred aerospace engineer in my early sixties, I thoroughly enjoy vigorous online discussions where fake passive-aggressive pseudo politeness is tossed by the wayside for let them have it by both verbal barrels honest to whatever particular deity you may worship. We don't have to be friends on this forum, but we have to be (at times brutally) honest to each other.

 

[martinbayer]

The results of the 2020 US presidential elections are now a controversial subject. Proceed from there.

Hello Arjen, as a German progressive expat living in California, I *honestly* do not understand your statement - what exactly is controversial?

 

[martinbayer]

Everyone knows that the earth is round but in any era, there have always been individuals eager for notoriety through provocation, in Western societies they proliferate taking advantage of tolerance... no one hangs them from a crane as happens in other places.

Christo and Jeanne-Claude - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I checked and searched your link and did not find any reference to "flat earth" whatsoever, but your reference to hanging people from cranes impels me to urge you to seek mental health assistance immediately.

 

[Antonio]

Scientists in my country are not known for their breakthroughs

This is not fair to your country scientists.

I mean this is not an objective information, thus an example about how "political" threads must be handled with care.

 

[Justo Miranda]

This is not fair to your country scientists.

I mean this is not an objective information, thus an example about how "political" threads must be handled with care.

It is not his fault that his work is not recognized, the lack of official support for Spanish science is legendary and everyone knows that it is only a geographical issue.

 

[Justo Miranda]

I checked and searched your link and did not find any reference to "flat earth" whatsoever, but your reference to hanging people from cranes impels me to urge you to seek mental health assistance immediately.

I only know three people living in California and among many clients, business contacts, family, friends and neighbors, only these three people have told me about mental health assistance. It must be a local meme and from what I know about the American health system that type of treatment is too expensive for a guy like me. I prefer to wait until I am on the verge of madness rather than pay Freud.

In my opinion, the defenders of the flat earth theory know that it is false, but they claim the opposite to obtain publicity because of the exaggeration of its deliberately provocative attitude. It would be different if their beliefs were legitimate and respectable, but I don't think so. And it is also totally true that there are societies intolerant of this type of provocations that tend to take measures against the provocateur that we consider extreme in the West.

I have chosen the example of Christo because "artistic creations" of this type always seemed to me to be very expensive stupidity.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Please, explain your post, since it honestly reads like you were on some kind of recreational drugs (good ones, I hope) when you typed it.

It is a false story created for the benefit of people with a sense of humor. I don't think it can be translated.

 

[NEST OF DRAGONS]

To keep a group healthy, there is only one way. Keep emotions and dominance out of it. Ways to heat up a group are mostly made by emotions or being forced to do something. So ... if you place something that you know might create a emotion, feel the need to delete your post in advance. If people are stubborn and think that their view about a situation is the only possible way, you are forcing people. Hmmm ... in my airplane Facebook-group i am very clear about those things. People, who break the rules to keep a group kind and neutral, are kicked out of the group. No, no set out of the group. Blocked! So they cannot even see the info inside the group. A few very known names had to leave my groups, due to their behavior. I always say i am a dictator in my groups. I need to be to keep it a good group. Some peole really think they can say anything they want in a group. Noppe! And the message "NOT ABLE TO FIND THE GROUP" is a lesson they needed.

 

[Justo Miranda]

To keep a group healthy, there is only one way. Keep emotions and dominance out of it. Ways to heat up a group are mostly made by emotions or being forced to do something. So ... if you place something that you know might create a emotion, feel the need to delete your post in advance. If people are stubborn and think that their view about a situation is the only possible way, you are forcing people. Hmmm ... in my airplane Facebook-group i am very clear about those things. People, who break the rules to keep a group kind and neutral, are kicked out of the group. No, no set out of the group. Blocked! So they cannot even see the info inside the group. A few very known names had to leave my groups, due to their behavior. I always say i am a dictator in my groups. I need to be to keep it a good group. Some peole really think they can say anything they want in a group. Noppe! And the message "NOT ABLE TO FIND THE GROUP" is a lesson they needed.

Repressing emotions and practicing abstinence can solve many social problems, but if you practice these commendable virtues with excessive zeal, you also run the risk of stroke, criminal insanity, or turning your blood green like Spock's.

 

[Arjen]

Hello Arjen, as a German progressive expat living in California, I *honestly* do not understand your statement - what exactly is controversial?

Likely to cause heated discussion to the point of gross incivility and beyond. I have sent you a PM. Before somebody proves me wrong, I always consider myself to be on the right side of the argument, because otherwise, I would have chosen another position. I will at times change position anyway.
Signed - a Dutch progressive in De Achterhoek.

 

[TMA1]

While the Russian-Ukrainian war rages and cold and tired slavs die by the hundreds daily, the information war will likewise heat up and cool down with the tempo of fighting and deplomacy. Whatever side you are on you are not winning, and whatever comes of the conflict the world as we once knew it will not be the same.

Unplugging and getting in touch with noble and good things is important. It is hard at first but it does make a world of difference when you make a habit of doing this even for small periods of time. All this reminds me of a Bible verse my mother would quote at times.

"Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."

Philippians chapter 4 verse 8

 

[SUPER=BUG]

Boring, what disputes can be resolved by discussing politics in this forum? Let's be realistic, okay?

 

[martinbayer]

I only know three people living in California and among many clients, business contacts, family, friends and neighbors, only these three people have told me about mental health assistance. It must be a local meme and from what I know about the American health system that type of treatment is too expensive for a guy like me. I prefer to wait until I am on the verge of madness rather than pay Freud.

In my opinion, the defenders of the flat earth theory know that it is false, but they claim the opposite to obtain publicity because of the exaggeration of its deliberately provocative attitude. It would be different if their beliefs were legitimate and respectable, but I don't think so. And it is also totally true that there are societies intolerant of this type of provocations that tend to take measures against the provocateur that we consider extreme in the West.

I have chosen the example of Christo because "artistic creations" of this type always seemed to me to be very expensive stupidity.

I have never (knowingly) met a flat earther face to face, so I can't speak to their mindset with any authority, but they are clearly wrong, be it deliberately or naively, and that's all I need to know to avoid them.

 

[martinbayer]

So ... if you place something that you know might create a emotion, feel the need to delete your post in advance. If people are stubborn and think that their view about a situation is the only possible way, you are forcing people.

Nobody is *forced* to read *anything*, let alone to react to it. I don't see a need for self-censorship.

 

[Justo Miranda]

I have never (knowingly) met a flat earther face to face, so I can't speak to their mindset with any authority, but they are clearly wrong, be it deliberately or naively, and that's all I need to know to avoid them.

I haven't met any of them either, I've only heard about their strange beliefs, but if you're looking for weird guys chances are they're based in California.

I have not been the one who brought up that topic in this thread and I am not too interested in talking about it.

 

[martinbayer]

As a matter of fact, as a certified card carrying, tax paying, but not entitled to voting (so much for "No Taxation Without Representation" - hah - joke's on me!) US Resident Alien, I really wish California, as the fifth largest economy in the world ON ITS OWN, could/would become a Nation State of its own (it most certainly has enough industrial/financial/infrastructural/intellectual oomph, and the sooner we can stop bleeding interstate alimony to all those mouth-breather teeth rotting do nothing hickabilly states in the blighted southeast corner of the USA that actually have the *gall* to look *down* on California while sucking up our hard earned money), I would be at the front of the line to become a California Citizen, something I never have contemplated for the USA at large, while these loser states are part of the deal...

 

[martinbayer]

The results of the 2020 US presidential elections are now a controversial subject. Proceed from there.

The heart of the problem is that voting rights are not linked to an objective IQ/general knowledge test threshold.

 

[Justo Miranda]

As a matter of fact, as a certified card carrying, tax paying, but not entitled to voting (so much for "No Taxation Without Representation" - hah - joke's on me!) US Resident Alien, I really wish California, as the fifth largest economy in the world ON ITS OWN, could/would become a Nation State of its own (it most certainly has enough industrial/financial/infrastructural/intellectual oomph, and the sooner we can stop bleeding interstate alimony to all those mouth-breather teeth rotting do nothing hickabilly states in the blighted southeast corner of the USA that actually have the *gall* to look *down* on California while sucking up our hard earned money), I would be at the front of the line to become a California Citizen, something I never have contemplated for the USA at large, while these loser states are part of the deal...

You may not believe me, but I agree with you that an economy that is STILL so powerful would be much better if it did not maintain a non-productive population. The most obvious solution is to declare all these people as foreigners living on the other end of the line and turn off the tap of aid. But reality is showing throughout the West that this does not work, as soon as the local economy improves you would be invaded by all kinds of illegal immigrants...and California has one of the longest borders in America. Good luck.

 

[Arjen]

IQ/general knowledge test threshold

Who would determine the measurement method? Would the result be an upper or lower limit?

 

[martinbayer]

You may not believe me, but I agree with you that an economy that is STILL so powerful would be much better if it did not maintain a non-productive population. The most obvious solution is to declare all these people as foreigners living on the other end of the line and turn off the tap of aid. But reality is showing throughout the West that this does not work, as soon as the local economy improves you would be invaded by all kinds of illegal immigrants... and California has the longest border in the Americas, after Chile. Good luck.

I honestly have not the faintest idea what your reference to "maintaining a non-productive population" pertains to, and I most certainly will not dignify your attempt to smear me with twisting my statements. I am starting to wonder though what they put in the Spanish drinking water supply...

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

How did the topic about what to do about political posts become a political topic itself?