Iraqi arms acquisition plans before 1990 and 2003

[KonTim]

What if Saddam never invaded Kuwait and never being throw up??? What would be the state of Ba'ath Iraqi armed forces?

 

[uk 75]

Assuming Saddam had pursued a more cautious policy toward Kuwait and Saudi Arabia his regime might have survived into the 90s without a war with the West.
But like the Kims in Korea he believed nuclear weapons were necessary for Iraq.
We now know that his attempts were mired in corruption. It is hard to see this changing.
Russia and China would have remained the principal sources of weapons, along with Serbia and Ukraine.
Even without an invasion of Kuwait Saddam's nuclear ambitions and atrocitied to Kurds and other opponents would have made even France and Italy avoid supplying him with major weapons.

 

[KonTim]

Assuming Saddam had pursued a more cautious policy toward Kuwait and Saudi Arabia his regime might have survived into the 90s without a war with the West.
But like the Kims in Korea he believed nuclear weapons were necessary for Iraq.
We now know that his attempts were mired in corruption. It is hard to see this changing.
Russia and China would have remained the principal sources of weapons, along with Serbia and Ukraine.
Even without an invasion of Kuwait Saddam's nuclear ambitions and atrocitied to Kurds and other opponents would have made even France and Italy avoid supplying him with major weapons.

I know that Saddam had set up a major build-up of Iraqi armed forces during and after the war with Iran. Could someone provide a full list of the military equipment that Iraq was set to procured?

 

[Archibald]

- Moar Mirage F1s on top of the hundred - something already purchased. The EQ-6 variant would have been armed to the teeth, an hybrid of F1 and Super Etendard for maritime strike. And much more than that.
- Also the Mirage 4000, but financing the production line from scratch would have been insanely expansive, and the ruined country no longer had the resources.
- I heard somewhere that a strike Mirage 2000 was in the pipeline, quite logically the next step beyond the F1EQs. Imagine Iraq with Mirage 2000Ds : two seaters for strike only.
- And Soviet warplanes, whatever Iraq could purchase:
- old Sukhois (Su-7 to -22 family)
- MiG-29s
- perhaps a few additional MiG-25s but the production line had stopped in 1984 in favor of the MiG-31, that was not available for export.
-The elephant in the room obviously would be the Su-27 and its bazillions variants. Seems exports started with China in the late 1980's and the variant was called Su-27-SK.

 

[Elan Vital]

There was the plan to set up an assembly for T-72M1s made from Polish parts.

 

[griml0ck122]

I second uk 75
Saddam probably continues so spend untold amounts of cash on weapons untill his nuclear ambitions become too problematic

 

[starviking]

Pre-GW1 Saddam was in negotiations to purchase a sizable number of Hawk trainers from BAe.

There were concerns in the media that these could be used for chemical weapons delivery, but before this could become an issue Saddam’s regime torpedoed the deal by arresting an executing the Iraqi fiancee of a British national.

 

[Hood]

Pre-GW1 Saddam was in negotiations to purchase a sizable number of Hawk trainers from BAe.

Not just purchase, but licence-production too.

By 1990 the UK government were getting wary of supplying Iraq with arms though, it's possible some small-scale orders might have gotten through for items that could be vetted, perhaps the Hawks, but anything more potent is unlikely.

 

[KonTim]

What about the projected purchase of Alpha Jet trainers???

 

[CV12Hornet]

As far as indigenous efforts, contemporary intel reports suggest Saddam would've eventually have to cut back his indigenization drive to munitions, missiles, and artillery. So local production of most types of ammo, more ballistic missiles, local artillery production. Everything else would have to be purchased abroad and/or license-produced.

 

[KonTim]

As far as indigenous efforts, contemporary intel reports suggest Saddam would've eventually have to cut back his indigenization drive to munitions, missiles, and artillery. So local production of most types of ammo, more ballistic missiles, local artillery production. Everything else would have to be purchased abroad and/or license-produced.

That' correct! According to that book that were the main goals of Iraqi indigenous armament efforts.

 

[Yellow Palace]

What about the projected purchase of Alpha Jet trainers???

I assume that Hawks and Alpha Jets were an either/or situation.

 

[Hood]

I assume that Hawks and Alpha Jets were an either/or situation.

Yes, that is correct.

 

[Archibald]

You can bet Alpha Jet would ride on massive Mirage procurements. There was a variant called Lancier, armed to the teeth.

 

[KonTim]

And what about Iraqi naval acquisitions?

 

[Archibald]

Combattantes missile boats.

 

[KonTim]

Combattantes missile boats.

Combattante FAC??? First time i hear it.

 

[Archibald]

Classe Combattante — Wikipédia

fr.wikipedia.org

That's what I had in mind, but maybe I'm wrong. The Wiki doesn't mentions Iraq (but Koweit, yes - the irony).

 

[Arjen]

In 1981, Iraq ordered four Lupo-class frigates and six missile corvettes in Italy. After Iraq invaded Iran in 1980, the Iran-Iraq war escalated so much - over a million casualties, eventually - that Italy hesitated to deliver them. After the 1988 end of the Iran-Iraq war, with Italy still reluctant to deliver, Iraq invaded Kuwait.

All ten ships were delivered in the end, but just two corvettes were delivered to Iraq, in 1986, without operational weapon systems. Eight went elsewhere.

In 1992 Italy decided to keep the four Lupo-class frigates, they entered Italian service in the 1994-1996 period - after removal of all ASW equipment, installation of new combat and communications systems, major upgrading of damage control and accomodation facilities.

In 1995, Malaysia signed a contract with Italy to take delivery of two of the corvettes, confirmed in 1996.
In 1997, Malaysia signed a contract with Italy to take delivery of two more corvettes, delivered in 1998.
All four were refitted, in Italy, before delivery.

Data from various editions of Jane's Fighting Ships.

 

[Arjen]

@Hood posted this in reply to me, but it got lost after restoring some threads:

There were the four Lupo-class that Arjen mentions above; Hittin (F 14), Thi Qar (F 15), Al Qadissiya (F 16) & Al Yarmouk (F 17), plus four of the six Assad-class corvettes; Abdullah ibn adi Serh (F214), Kalid ibn al Walid (F 216), Saad bin abi Wakkad (F 218) & Salah Aldin Ayoobi (F 220).

Plus there was the Stromboli-class tanker Agnadeen (A 102); completed in 1984, docked in Alexandria, Egypt, since her attempted delivery voyage from Italy in 1986, was awarded to Italy in 1991 but never claimed and is still I believe a rusting hulk.

In addition from the Soviet Union, the following were never delivered due to the arms embargo: three Project 1241PE ‘Modified Pauk II’-class; MPK-291, MPK-292 & MPK-293, which were later incorporated into Russian Navy; two of four Project 206.1 Vikhr’ III 'Bogomol'-class, which were taken over by the Russian Border Guards in May 1997 as PSKR-726 and PSKR-727

 

[Arjen]

@KonTim replied to Hood:

Pauk II" class and "Bogomol" class, especially as it concerns their armament???

I've read that Iraq had also purchased Tarantul class FACs from USSR and 2 frigates of Jianghu class from China. Any more info?

 

[starviking]

You can bet Alpha Jet would ride on massive Mirage procurements. There was a variant called Lancier, armed to the teeth.

I have to wonder if the Germans would suffer controversy with the media worrying about the Alpha Jets being used for chemical weapons use?

 

[capitan r8]

You can bet on an indigenous nuclear weapon option if they hadn´t invaded Kuwait

 

[serg.gonzp]

There were also plans to build a domestic SPH based on the South African G6.

 

[MadRat]

Iraqi had sanctions for gasing Iran.

Don't use gas.

 

[Apophenia]

Iraqi had sanctions for gasing Iran.

Don't use gas.

Not to mention ~5,000 Kurdish civilians murdered in 1988 when Saddam gassed Halabja in northern Iraq.