IJN post Taiho fleet carrier plans

[World B4]

改大鳳型航空母艦 - Wikipedia

ja.wikipedia.org

 

[airman]

G-14 was 801 and 802:

G14 (空母) - Wikipedia

ja.wikipedia.org

日本海军航空母舰_百度百科

日本是世界上较早研发航空母舰的国家之一。日本在1922年建造的“凤翔”号航母被认为是世界上第一艘标准的航空母舰。第二次世界大战时期，日本曾建造了11艘舰队航母和若干轻型航母，一度横行海上，成为其野心高度膨胀的催化剂，日本自从明治维新后大量吸收了西方的文化，在军国主义兴起后，更是醉心在坚船利炮上面。和各列强海军一样，最初的时候日本海军内部也曾有过航空母舰与战列舰孰轻孰重的激烈争议，但仍从1911年就开始了航空母舰的开发工作。1952年起日本推行直升机航母（见日本百年航母词条的介绍），现在，2017年时日本已经服役了4艘直升机航母。

baike.baidu.com

wiki references:

War History Series "Navy Army Army (1)" (Asamu Shimbun)
"Japanese aircraft carrier story" (Shizuo Fukui, Mitsutosha)
"Japanese warship construction history" (Shizuo Fukui, Mitsutosha)
"Japanese warships" (Shizuo Fukui, Publishing Co., Ltd.)
Magazine "World Ships" Japanese Aircraft Carrier History January 2011 Special Issue No736 (Kaijinsha)

Awesome : It was a type of carrier which was planned a construction of three carrier ships until Midway 's defeat.

 

[airman]

Could be G-14 sister ships of Taiho ?

 

[Tzoli]

G-14: The Japanese Midway, basically a Shinano sized 50.000ton super carrier which was designed as a carrier from the start (to our current knowledge)
G-15: Improved Taiho design

 

[airman]

G-14 could be a Shinano class with less ton of Shinano. (50.000 ton) or could be have been a two larger Taiho based on Shinano dimension. G-14 design i suppose was lost with the war.

 

[Tzoli]

ceccherini do you know the book title or ISBN that you posted those two pages from at the beginning of this thread?

 

[ceccherini]

ceccherini do you know the book title or ISBN that you posted those two pages from at the beginning of this thread?

Sorry but no, I don't.

 

[Tzoli]

Any idea where did you find the images?
Reverse image search did not produced any results

 

[ceccherini]

Any idea where did you find the images?
Reverse image search did not produced any results

After some research I've found the original publication. https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/u375691359

 

[Tzoli]

Thanks this could help, especially the 6th page

 

[airman]

G-14: The Japanese Midway, basically a Shinano sized 50.000ton super carrier which was designed as a carrier from the start (to our current knowledge)
G-15: Improved Taiho design

G-14 was sized between 45.000 and 50.000 ton .

 

[Airborne2001]

What is the folding wing twin engine plane in the first photo?

I have finally found the answer to this question! It was a twin-engined concept for the next aircraft to replace the D3A, though this eventually evolved into the single-engined D4Y, interestingly enough.

 

[Airborne2001]

Do any schematica of the G-14 exist? I know that it most likely is comparable in looks to the US Midway class, but I am still intrigued by what it could possibly look like.

 

[Tzoli]

The one in the first post is the only artist impression so far no official drawings I've seen. I always thought of a Shinano sized carrier with two hanger levels, Hurricane like bow and general Junyo/Taiho/Shinano like bridge. with at least 4 but maximum 6 twin 10cm AA guns per side. Catapult and 40mm Type 5 AA guns if I feel like a very advanced carrier otherwise 25mm guns and maybe 12cm AA rocket launchers.

 

[Julio Garay Terrazas]

i found this strange link in japanese wikipedia, is some easy to translate with wikipedia google translator: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/G18_(空母)
This other link have a very big ¿Cyberbibliography? or list of links in his Notes section:
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/改大鳳型航空母艦

 

[Tzoli]

Yes G-18 was the last design number of the IJN for an aircraft carrier. By it's size it is a built up CVL similar to Ibuki

 

[Tzoli]

I was thinking about the Japanese Midway the G-14 design a bit. Shinano was 62.000tons standard on Yamato hull but if we remove the barbette bases and the sloped deck, set the belt armour to say uniform 165mm and deck of 100-120mm can we reduce the displacement by 12.000tons?

Note Shinano had 400mm inclined belt at magazines, 160mm at Machinery, 230mm slopes, 190mm deck over magazines and 100 over machinery or flight deck.
Taiho had 165/55mm Belt and 90/95mm Deck (Magazines/Machinery)

 

[Grey Havoc]

Sacrificing armour protection for some extra speed you are thinking, or for something else?

 

[Tzoli]

No. Design G-14. What Shinano requires to go down to 50.000tons to G-24 displacement?

 

[ceccherini]

I was thinking about the Japanese Midway the G-14 design a bit. Shinano was 62.000tons standard on Yamato hull but if we remove the barbette bases and the sloped deck, set the belt armour to say uniform 165mm and deck of 100-120mm can we reduce the displacement by 12.000tons?

Note Shinano had 400mm inclined belt at magazines, 160mm at Machinery, 230mm slopes, 190mm deck over magazines and 100 over machinery or flight deck.
Taiho had 165/55mm Belt and 90/95mm Deck (Magazines/Machinery)

Better to start from Taiho: a carrier with the same proportions enlarged to 50000 ton standard would be 308 meters in length and 33 in beam. If we adopt a length/beam ratio of 7,5, more likely in such a large ship, we obtain a waterline length of 277 meters and a width of 36,8 meters, basically a 20 meters longer, less overbuilt and less armored Shinano.

 

[airman]

I can hazard a guess : G14 design could be enlarged Hiryu design .

 

[airman]

i post links about G-14 https://仮想艦隊.jp/cms/blog5.php?itemid=125 , https://仮想艦隊.jp/cms/blog5.php?catid=7 i don't know if they are accurate or just a what if .

 

[alexi]

i post links about G-14 https://仮想艦隊.jp/cms/blog5.php?itemid=125 , https://仮想艦隊.jp/cms/blog5.php?catid=7 i don't know if they are accurate or just a what if .

Why do i get a feeling that this look so fake? Japanese never thought about open hangar not until they complete Shinano (even still barely open hangar compare to American), even side elevators.

 

[Tzoli]

Ahh I've thought you found that site. It's an artist's own website containing various never were warships even into Cold War (Missile equipped Akizuki, Japanese Baltimore for example) Good site for possible hypothetical designs or for world building but indeed as you would call it fake. None the less good artist with extensive knowledge based on the drawings. Maybe I should email him (her? ) about the knowledge he/she has.

Anti Air DDG Akizuki:
https://仮想艦隊.jp/cms/blog6.php?itemid=155

 

[airman]

Ahh I've thought you found that site. It's an artist's own website containing various never were warships even into Cold War (Missile equipped Akizuki, Japanese Baltimore for example) Good site for possible hypothetical designs or for world building but indeed as you would call it fake. None the less good artist with extensive knowledge based on the drawings. Maybe I should email him (her? ) about the knowledge he/she has.

Anti Air DDG Akizuki:
https://仮想艦隊.jp/cms/blog6.php?itemid=155

Probably , but in Japanese Language

 

[airman]

If on this site are all true https://仮想艦隊.jp/cms/blog5.php?itemid=125 - Taiho seems be lighter version of G-14 . G-14 have an open-hangar and armoured bridge anti -aircraft bomb until 500 kg .

 

[Tzoli]

If on this site are all true https://仮想艦隊.jp/cms/blog5.php?itemid=125 - Taiho seems be lighter version of G-14 . G-14 have an open-hangar and armoured bridge anti -aircraft bomb until 500 kg .

It's the artist's interpretation. the text says he knows the same data as we: 45-50.000tons displacement, 3ships to be built and an aircraft component of 63 aircraft with an extra 21 spares. From this he deducted that this design would be an attack carrier or froward air base and not a support one like Shinano. Then he examined the Midway and Gibraltar classes as these were in the same tonnage range as G-14 and while Gibraltar had deck edge elevators on the left side he decided it would be better to put them on both sides.

Myself too played with the idea of deck edge elevators but the IJN seems to be not really thought about this aspect or not found them useful or we just lack info on it.
Shinano too would been originally a fully enclosed carrier but after Taiho sunk, the design altered to became more open hangered? (Is there such a word? ) So I assume the same would had happenned with this G-14 design: A Shinano sized Taiho with alterations for some open hanger space during construction. Likely 3 elevators in my opinion.

 

[airman]

If on this site are all true https://仮想艦隊.jp/cms/blog5.php?itemid=125 - Taiho seems be lighter version of G-14 . G-14 have an open-hangar and armoured bridge anti -aircraft bomb until 500 kg .

It's the artist's interpretation. the text says he knows the same data as we: 45-50.000tons displacement, 3ships to be built and an aircraft component of 63 aircraft with an extra 21 spares. From this he deducted that this design would be an attack carrier or froward air base and not a support one like Shinano. Then he examined the Midway and Gibraltar classes as these were in the same tonnage range as G-14 and while Gibraltar had deck edge elevators on the left side he decided it would be better to put them on both sides.

Myself too played with the idea of deck edge elevators but the IJN seems to be not really thought about this aspect or not found them useful or we just lack info on it.
Shinano too would been originally a fully enclosed carrier but after Taiho sunk, the design altered to became more open hangered? (Is there such a word? ) So I assume the same would had happenned with this G-14 design: A Shinano sized Taiho with alterations for some open hanger space during construction. Likely 3 elevators in my opinion.

Of course , all that i undestood is that G-14 is original idea of Taiho class of three carriers , assuming that hull no.803 was assign to Taiho , ( 801 , 802 and 803) . There were an idea to carry , initially , 126 aircraft ( with 30 of these in reserve) after reduced to 71 - 53 .

 

[airman]

Watching this video

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-CjuLm_S5o
, i understood that 50.000 ton was possible with full armored brigde and many resources that Japan don't had .

 

[airman]

View: https://youtu.be/zoW-EPCEi7g
G.14/G.15 design by Drachinifel. G-14 was essencially upscaled version of Taiho with 50.000 ton of displacement.

 

[Ginga_Lover_11]

ceccherini do you know the book title or ISBN that you posted those two pages from at the beginning of this thread?

The magazine is a doujinshi called 次世代航空母艦建造計画 by a writer going by the name of "烈風改" (Reppuu Kai)
I happened to purchase that particular issue as well as his latest work ⑤⑥計画と航空母艦 (Carriers of the Maru-5 & Maru-6 plan) at a recent Comiket so if anyone is still interested in 2024 I'd love to share it with fellow members here for archival purposes

 

[Tzoli]

I'm interested

 

[Antonio]

I'm interested

Me too

 

[Frestylewyvern]

Same here

Me too

Same here

 

[Roodbaard1958!]

I also

 

[Airborne2001]

The magazine is a doujinshi called 次世代航空母艦建造計画 by a writer going by the name of "烈風改" (Reppuu Kai)
I happened to purchase that particular issue as well as his latest work ⑤⑥計画と航空母艦 (Carriers of the Maru-5 & Maru-6 plan) at a recent Comiket so if anyone is still interested in 2024 I'd love to share it with fellow members here for archival purposes

I'll join the list lol. This would be cool to see.

 

[Ginga_Lover_11]

Don't have a scanner with me so had to make do with my camera. Anyway here are the pages on the G-12 design and beyond, I'll grab the pages for that twin-engine carrier bomber later when I have time.

 

[Tzoli]

Thank you

 

[Gwalker18]

What is the folding wing twin engine plane in the first photo?

Looks like a carrier version of a Bf-110.

 

[airman]

Oh well, G-14 was upscaled version of Taiho originally projected like two carriers with ton between 45.000 and 50.000 and after modified with three carriers between 30.000 and 33.000 ton.
G-16 was referred to Unryu Class , G.17 to Shinano.