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Donald McKelvy
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"Russia begins to design "Husky" fifth-generation submarine concept"
Published: Monday, 27 March 2017 14:41

Source:
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2017/march-2017-navy-naval-forces-defense-industry-technology-maritime-security-global-news/5023-russia-begins-to-design-husky-fifth-generation-submarine-concept.html

Russia began to design the concept of the perspective Husky-class fifth-generation nuclear submarine and the work is currently at the preliminary design stage, Vice-President of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) for military shipbuilding Igor Ponomarev told reporters.

The concept of the fifth-generation nuclear submarine of the Husky project is being formed. A preliminary design of the perspective sub is being produced," he said.

The characteristics of the perspective submarine, its armaments and equipment "will depend on the tasks set by the Navy," Ponomarev added.

The USC earlier said the concept and a rough sketch of the multi-purpose fifth-generation Husky-class submarine have to be ready in two years. The new submarine is designed by the Malakhit bureau in St. Petersburg. At present Russia is building a series of fourth-generation submarines of project 885 (code Yasen). [
 

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Husky has been a topic for years, interesting that it's now started.
Looks like multiple pump jets plus a screw at the stern? What's going on there?
 
Looks like multiple pump jets plus a screw at the stern? What's going on there?

Single screw with X-planes, I thought. Popular nowadays.
 
RP1 said:
Looks like multiple pump jets plus a screw at the stern? What's going on there?

Single screw with X-planes, I thought. Popular nowadays.
Yeah other than being a porker there's not much that stands out about the image. Wonder if they're hoping this comes out costing less than a project 885.
 
Ahah!!! Now I see it in full resolution that makes all the difference! X-planes and regular prop.

Overall not so bold.

What's beneath it? Just a previous malachite design passing in the background?
 
Started my HUSKY tracking page at http://www.hisutton.com/Husky_SSN.html

Profile based on the Malachite model. This boat appears very much like the AKULA except with the X-planes and longer sail extending forward, relocated bow planes and VLS.
3elcoou.jpg



4ORqX1W.jpg



Another popular image - looks speculative to me. The overlap of the bow planes and the VLS may indicate it wasn't created by Malachite ;)
optbYs2.jpg
 
covert_shores said:
Another popular image - looks speculative to me. The overlap of the bow planes and the VLS may indicate it wasn't created by Malachite ;)
...and that's true
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?style=4&t=145472#p3416525
 
Given Russian plans to start building new fifth-generation submarines of the Husky class by 2027, the Yasen-M line may cease to exist, according to Pavel Luzin, a Russia defense expert with the Washington-based Center for European Policy Analysis.
 
Yasen production ending would be quite unfortunate given how small the class is and how much potential there still is.
 
Yasen production ending would be quite unfortunate given how small the class is and how much potential there still is.
It's an old design (ca. mid-'80s) so I am not surprised that Russia will move on to the next class. A class of 10-12 is rather large considering that its U.S. contemporary (and fellow victim of the post-Cold War reduction in defense spending), the Seawolf class, only had three units. Also consider that the Royal Navy will built seven Astutes.
 
It's an old design (ca. mid-'80s) so I am not surprised that Russia will move on to the next class. A class of 10-12 is rather large considering that its U.S. contemporary (and fellow victim of the post-Cold War reduction in defense spending), the Seawolf class, only had three units. Also consider that the Royal Navy will built seven Astutes.
Yasen is an underwater hunter for the USSR, Russia's potential is only 40%. We need a smaller submarine

Husky from above
Ash tree from below

Great drawing. Russia's double hull designs and preference for high reserve buoyancy and crew rescue spheres all necessitate larger hulls. Simply put, you have a different engineering heritage than we Westerners do. The rescue capsule concept, for instance, only made its way into the 4 IKL Type 209 1500 subs for India, and even then, there are rumors that this very expensive concept had been fully funded by the Shah of Iran in the 70s for an order that had been cancelled. My point is that much of what Russia does differently is rather expensive by Western standards.

It does occur to me that if the Amur/Lada class had been more successful, a scaled up design, akin to how Brazil's SN-BR scaled up the French export Scorpene, might have been possible. To this day, I still don't fully understand the sad saga of that first Lada class submarine. I'm not denigrating anyone, just pointing out that the Lada might have been any evolutionary way point to inherently smaller missile submarines.
 
It's an old design (ca. mid-'80s) so I am not surprised that Russia will move on to the next class. A class of 10-12 is rather large considering that its U.S. contemporary (and fellow victim of the post-Cold War reduction in defense spending), the Seawolf class, only had three units. Also consider that the Royal Navy will built seven Astutes.
And yet, "cheaper" Virginia bloated from SSN to SSGN. I, frankly don't see need in Husky at all, when you have 885.
 
Because Project 885 is a very old design. Remember, the Severodvinsk was laid down in 1993, over 30 years ago. This ain't rocket science, people; I'm not sure why this is surprising.

And allegedly the design work started in 1977...
 
It's an old design (ca. mid-'80s) so I am not surprised that Russia will move on to the next class. A class of 10-12 is rather large considering that its U.S. contemporary (and fellow victim of the post-Cold War reduction in defense spending), the Seawolf class, only had three units. Also consider that the Royal Navy will built seven Astutes.
Sure, but Russia has currently launched like half of the Yasens they ordered. And while surely stuff like the Akulas and Oscars are aging out, it's not like there's much current need for more than the 10-12 (I can't recall which one exactly) Yasen/Yasen-Ms. Especially given that the USN is shifting attention towards the PLAN.

But I get why age could be a factor, but the M version isn't as old yet and obviously submarines can be modernized.

I think my point, which has been a bit muddied I admit, is that I question why the Yasen run should be cut short in favor of a newer model. Is the submarine yard capacity maxed out with the simultaneous production of Yasen-M and Borei-A? If not, couldn't the successor be starting production next to the last orders of Yasen-M?

Furthermore, it's not like there are many submarines out there much more capable or comparable to the Yasen-M, arguably only the Virginias/Seawolfs. I don't see China or Europe catching up to that yet. Although I have to admit I don't know much about the latest Suffren SSN, that may be a comparable system in operation.

Also at what point wouldn't it be just smarter to produce SSGN versions of the Borei instead? Given that the Borei is fairly new and any Yasen successor would need plenty of VLS anyway.
 
But I get why age could be a factor, but the M version isn't as old yet and obviously submarines can be modernized.
It's still based on an '80s design, in the same way that a 688I is improved over a 688 but is still fundamentally a '60s design.
Furthermore, it's not like there are many submarines out there much more capable or comparable to the Yasen-M, arguably only the Virginias/Seawolfs.
Well, the Astutes certainly.
Also at what point wouldn't it be just smarter to produce SSGN versions of the Borei instead? Given that the Borei is fairly new and any Yasen successor would need plenty of VLS anyway.
That would probably be too expensive and would not be as good of an ASW platform. The Borei is also a very old design.
 
It's still based on an '80s design, in the same way that a 688I is improved over a 688 but is still fundamentally a '60s design.

Well, the Astutes certainly.

That would probably be too expensive and would not be as good of an ASW platform. The Borei is also a very old design.

Well, essentially 90% of the worlds militaries rely on modernized/heavily improved systems from the 70s, 80s and 90s.

With regards to the Astutes, aren't these like literally not at sea sometimes. Meaning the entire fleet not at sea? Do they even have VLS? Does the UKs manpower issue not affect them?

As for the Borei, their actual design is like late 80s early 90s stuff and the Borei-A obviously changed that quite a bit again. So I wouldn't really say "very old" but obviously not very recent either. But I get your point about expense. I just figured standardization of the fleet would bring cost down as the SSGNs and SSBNs would be virtually the same submarines.
 
Well, essentially 90% of the worlds militaries rely on modernized/heavily improved systems from the 70s, 80s and 90s.
We're talking specifically about these submarines, I am not making any broader statements about other craft/equipment. The Russian designs are a decade or two older than the contemporary American or British submarines; that is not really debatable.
With regards to the Astutes, aren't these like literally not at sea sometimes. Meaning the entire fleet not at sea? Do they even have VLS? Does the UKs manpower issue not affect them?
Indeed the British have had readiness issues, but that's another issue entirely as we are talking about the design, the physical submarine (in any case the Russians have had far more severe issues in this connection). I am simply stating that the Astute class is certainly just as capable as the Yasen.

To be honest I think unclassified debates about which submarine is "better" are largely pointless. And debates that end up comparing statistics (e.g., "X submarine is better than Y submarine because X submarine has VLS tubes") are even more pointless. The only way to make an informed assessment, if "better" is even meaningful, is to have access to information that is currently classified.
As for the Borei, their actual design is like late 80s early 90s stuff and the Borei-A obviously changed that quite a bit again.
I do not agree that there was an "obvious change." It is an improved version of an old design.
 
Because Project 885 is a very old design. Remember, the Severodvinsk was laid down in 1993, over 30 years ago. This ain't rocket science, people; I'm not sure why this is surprising.
They produce 885M, which is an upgraded version of first 885.
 

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