Hunting-Percival aircraft

[Schneiderman]

Rather than place this in Patent Pending I think it may be useful to include it here (Mods move if you disagree) This is an illustration from Percival's 1946 patent GB12666 and shows a Merganser fitted with a removal planning bottom and balance floats. Percival seem to have given a project number to everything, even the most generalised concept designs, so this may possibly fit in somewhere, perhaps in the P48 series.

 

[Hood]

Percival seem to have offered two navigation trainer designs to meet Operational Requirement OR.312 in 1952.
OR.312 called for an Intermediate Navigation Trainer to fit between the Valetta T.3 flying classroom (apparently only useful for the first few exercises) and the Varsity crew trainer. Economy of operation seems to have been key.
It was to accommodate 1 pilot, 1 navigator instructor, 2 pupils and 1 wireless operator. It was to be fitted for basic bombing training too with a Light Series carrier and a ventral sighting panel and also provision for a vertical F.24 camera. It was to be fitted with Gee Mk.3, low-level radio altimeter and IFF Mk.10, ILS etc.

The specification was written around the Pembroke (which at the time had not yet entered service).
Two designs were offered, an interim type based on the Prince and the main submission based on the Pembroke. I don't know whether any type designations were applied by Percival, the Interim Prince seems to have been a study rather than what was desired. The Miles Marathon was also studied, but not favoured.
Engines were to be the standard Alvis Leonides 250 4/5.

Eventually OR.312 was abandoned, it was found the Pembroke Trainer could not be delivered before September 1953 without delaying introduction of the Pembroke C.1 and even then much of the planned navigation equipment would not be ready for installation until 1954-55.

 

[Stargazer]

I don't know whether any type designations were applied by Percival

Could this have been the P.89? This is described as a "Pembroke development" with no other details (so was P.64, but the date is too early). P-100 to P-102 are described as "larger Pembrokes" but nothing seems to indicate that O.R. 312 called for a larger version, and besides they were later designs, circa 1955. So to me (IF a designation was applied of course), P.89 seems the only valid candidate for it, unless someone has info on P.89 showing clearly that it was something distinct from it.

 

[Hood]

The M.O.S.'s Aircraft Production branch describes the Pembroke Navigation Trainer as a "somewhat simplified version of the Pembroke C.1" so that suggests some form of airframe changes.

 

[Apophenia]

My designation listing (reply #20) has finally be updated and corrected. I've still got plenty of gaps needing filling (and probably lots more corrections needing to be made). Any and all new info/corrections would be much appreciated!

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/hunting-percival-aircraft.2166/#post-162070

 

[Cy-27]

I had another browse of the "On The Wings of A Gull" book.

It mentions a few bits of additional information to supplement Apophenia's comprehensive list at reply #22.

Some of the prefixes differ but the project numbers remain the same.

P.85

The P.85 and P.86 were project designs to meet a B.E.A. requirement for large commercial helicopter capable of carrying 40-56 passengers depending on the route. The P.85 was to have 2x Napier Oryx N.Ov101 turbo gas generators powering a single torqueless rotor.

P.86

Similar to the P.85 but with four Napier engines.

H.137R

Conventional layout agricultural aircraft development fitted with a rotary distribution system.

P.148

Supersonic studies for variable geometry and fixed wings for a tandem seat trainer. First part of the P.148/149/150 trainer programme.

P.149

The P.149 was a subsonic trainer with a T-tail. Various low-wing configurations were evaluated. A high speed swept wing was also considered.

P.150

Elementary trainer with side-by-side seating, fixed tricycle undercarriage and fitted with Turbomeca Marbore II turbojet.

BAC 164

A Hunting-Percival proposal for a ground attack aircraft for Malaysia based on Jet Provost T.4 fuselage. It was to have under wing hard points. Powered by a Bristol-Siddeley Viper 522. Tail was altered to give a similar appearance to the later BAe Hawk.

BAC 165

Derived from the Jet Provost.

BAC 166

Another Jet Provost derivative. Aircraft used for trials with uprated engine was XS231. Evaluations took place at Luton until the Percival/BAC site closed.

H.169

Pembroke C.1 based AEW project, also referred to as the BAC 169. Radome over the fuselage and fitted with 2x Lycoming PLF/1A/2 turbofans. It was initially scheduled to fly by December 1966 but the project was abandoned. The book also has a drawing of this project.


Source:

"On The Wings of A Gull (Percival and Hunting Aircraft)" by D.W.Gearing (Air Britain - ISBN 978 0 85130 448 9)

 

[Apophenia]

As before, excellent stuff Cy-27 ! I will adjust my designation listing to match

On the P.85/P.86, great to know that these were related projects. I had the P.85 as a 'trainer' (which seems to be something of a default answer for mysteries amongst Percival list-makers).

I also had the P.86 as powered by 2 or 4 x 'Eland N.Or.101s' (sic). You have now explained the number wobble by that P.85/P.86 connection. But I should have picked up the Oryx powerplant by the N.Or.101 designation ;(

On the P.169/H.169/BAC 169, I'd love to see that drawing! Chris Gibson mentioned back in 2012 that he had "stumbed upon [a drawing of the BAC 169] quite by chance in a file at Brooklands." Perhaps the same source used by David Gearing?

Thanks again!

 

[Hood]

There was another P.66, confusingly the initial batch of Sea Prince C.1 ordered for the communications role were designated P.66 and predates the P.66 Pembroke. These were essentially the standard Prince for the Royal Navy.

Source: On the Wings of a Gull

I feel that there are gaps still in the listing. I know of the existance of an ASW aircraft in 1953 that reached the mockup stage (I dont think it was the earlier P.70) - but none of the P.xx numbers around that time match. It may have been a Pembroke development, but that is my speculation.

 

[Apophenia]

A few more tweaks and additions to my original list ...

There was another P.66, confusingly the initial batch of Sea Prince C.1 ordered for the communications role were designated P.66 and predates the P.66 Pembroke. These were essentially the standard Prince for the Royal Navy.

Interesting about P.66 for the comms Sea Prince. I notice that Peter G. Dancey also uses P.66 in his British Aircraft Manufacturers Since 1909. Still, most records have the Sea Prince C1 as a P.57 and the aircraft have P57/xx serials.

I feel that there are gaps still in the listing. I know of the existance of an ASW aircraft in 1953 that reached the mockup stage (I dont think it was the earlier P.70) - but none of the P.xx numbers around that time match. It may have been a Pembroke development, but that is my speculation.

Definitely. Another 'missing' type is the 1957 Hunting-Percival Harrier foldable utility vehicle for Airborne use.

 

[Cy-27]

A few more additional notes:

P.29
Proctor serial P5998 prototype for anti-invasion defence in 1940. 3-seats Gipsy Queen II (208 hp).

P.45
Proctor IV NP384 engine test-bed (1946). 4-seats Gipsy Queen 52.71 (300 hp).

P.47
Proctor VI prototype 1946. 4-seats Gipsy Queen 31 (250 hp).

P.47A
Proctor VI floatplane for production.

P.55
A project for a Prentice III dated 1949 fitting between the early Prentice and later Provost. 3-seats Gipsy Queen (250 hp).

P.58
Two-seat tandem trainer project from 1950 fitted with a single Bombardier engine.

P.59
Prentice trainer with twin fins for spin trials. Aircraft VN684 allocated for this work in 1950.

P.61
Swept shoulder wing single seat research aircraft project dating from 1950 to be fitted with a de Havilland Goblin.

P.62
A 1950 Ram-jet helicopter project.

P.63
Pulse-jet helicopter project (1950).

NB. P.52 & P.53 both noted as unknown.

Source:
"On The Wings of A Gull (Percival and Hunting Aircraft)" by D.W.Gearing (Air Britain - ISBN 9780851304489)

 

[Cy-27]

Sorry, work commitment interruption.......

P.68/5
Air observation project with Bombardier engine.

P.70/6
Royal Navy bomber version of the P.70. Dated 1950 with 2x Leonides engines and three crew.

P.71
Amphibious 10-12 passenger feeder-liner project from 1950. Powered by 2x Leonides.

P.72
1951 project for a general purpose helicopter.

P.73
Target drone to U24/49 with a pulse-jet engine.

P.75
Project from 1951 for a Sea Prince development with an AEW scanner installation.

P.76
Twin rotor helicopter project (1951).

P.77
Sea Prince fitted with arrester gear. Powered by 2x Leonides 125 (550 hp) and fitted with 10 seats.

P.79
Army AOP helicopter with three crew (1951).

P.80
A military twin seat jet trainer (1951) with 2x Armstrong-Siddeley Adder engines.

P.82
Low-wing gunnery trainer (1952) with tricycle undercarriage. 2 crew, aircraft fitted with 4x .303 guns and an Alvis engine.

P.85
Projected design to meet a British European Airways requirement for a large passenger helicopter to carry 40-56 passengers. Powered by 2x Napier Oryx N.Ov.101 engines with a single torqueless rotor.

P.88
Naval strike fighter project from 1953. Possibly to N.114T spec.

P.89
Project development of Prince or Pembroke for a 16 passenger feeder-liner with 2x Leonides engines.

P.90
Lightweight AOP helicopter ro Spec. HR.144T in 1954. Powered by gas generated turbine engine.

P.99
1954 project for an 18-20 seat twin turboprop transport.

Source:
"On The Wings of A Gull (Percival and Hunting Aircraft)" by D.W.Gearing (Air Britain - ISBN 9780851304489)

 

[Maveric]

Does anyone of you have photos of the Proctor (P5998), the Proctor IV (NP384), the Proctor Floatplane
and the Prentice (VN684)?
I would be very grateful for your help!

 

[TsrJoe]

Percival Proctor 6 Floatplane

Looking for the history and mainly for pictures of the one and only Percival Proctor 6 floatplane. Produced for Hudson's Bay Company in 1946. Any idea? Any

www.key.aero

 

[Maveric]

THX

 

[Apophenia]

This gets better and better Thanks Cy-27!

 

[Cy-27]

The last batch of additional information from "On The Wings of A Gull (Percival and Hunting Aircraft)" by D.W.Gearing

P.100
The P.99 derivative for 18-20 passengers. A twin prop with Alvis Majors dated 1954.

P.102
A 1954 project for a single rotor helicopter study with a gross weight of 55,000lb.

P.104
A 1954 project for a single jet rotor helicopter with a feathering rotor.

P.108
A larger 14 seat development of the P.105 helicopter in 1954 with 2x Oryx NOr.4 (825 hp) engines.

P.109
Airfield runway barrier project dating from 1955.

P.110
1956 project 2x Napier Oryx turboprop airliner for 20 passenger.

P.119
High-wing transport from 1956 design to carry 18 passengers. Power was to be from 4x de Havilland Gipsy Queen engines.

P.121
Delta jet flap research aircraft 1957 project. Single seater with a gross weight of 60,000lb. Powerplant was 2x de Havilland Gyron Junior.

P.131
1959 project for a twin-boom STOL/VTOL jet lift transport.

P.132
VTOL freighter with Circulift wings project with a date of 1959.

P.134
Twin-boom executive jet and communications aircraft project. Study started in 1960 and the engines were 2x Turbomeca Baston.

P.136
VSTOL trainer project (1961). Engine was a Bristol-Siddeley 75 turbojet.

P.138
A pusher engine version of the H.137 crop sprayer. Single seat project powered by a Continental GTSIO-520 engine.

P.140
Swept-wing communications aircraft based on the Jet Provost with 6 crew (1961).

P.142
Low-wing agricultural aircraft 1961 project with wing hoppers. 3 seats and a Pratt & Whitney engine.

P.144
Transport project (1961) for an aeroplane with fan-lift engines mounted in the fuselage.

P.146
An advanced jet trainer project dating from 1962. Versions were considered with straight and swept wings.

P.147
Twin seat high-wing trainer project with wing configurations of 35 degrees sweep or unswept (1962).

P.155
Supersonic project an advanced tandem seat trainer in 1962. Engine selected was a pair of Bristol-Siddeley Orpheus powerplants

P.157
A 1963 project for a COIN aircraft where both high and low wing designs were considered.

P.158
Project for a basic twin seat jet trainer (1964). Engines were to be 2x Turbomeca Aubisque.

P.159
A 1964 project for a Jet Provost based aircraft with 2x Turbomeca Aubisque engines mounted in the rear fuselage.

P.160
A turboprop project for a tandem seat COIN aircraft. Engines were to be 2x Turbomeca Astazou engines mounted in the tail.

 

[Cy-27]

On the P.169/H.169/BAC 169, I'd love to see that drawing! Chris Gibson mentioned back in 2012 that he had "stumbed upon [a drawing of the BAC 169] quite by chance in a file at Brooklands." Perhaps the same source used by David Gearing?

"The Admiralty and AEW" by Chris Gibson has nice 3-view of the BAC.169 and the one in the "On The Wings of A Gull " is attached for comparison (just a side view). Engine and radome differ.

 

[Maveric]

Percival P.59 Prentice from 1000aircraftphotos.com

Percival P.40 Prentice

 

[Maveric]

So I need only a picture of the Proctor serial P5998

 

[Hood]

Another view of the Percival P.20 model.

 

[Maveric]

So I need only a picture of the Proctor serial P5998

Any news?